Non volatil game boy saves (done on Pokemon Yellow, but problem on Pokemon Gold)

[aldighieri]

Sry to bump this topic, but i have 3 GBC pokemon carts that dont use bat and save with no problem, look the pic.

Im looking for more pkm carts like this one, but i cant find. I need to check if the clock on Gold version is working, but i think its not.

 

[koffieleut]

Are you sure those are gbc carts? I can remember that there are a lot of more components around the battery.

 

[Sliter]

this ideia is very awesome, I haven't a clue that could work that way
(only bootlegs that actually have a different cart structure, and they do for GBA games nowadays, but not for GB/c I think? )
but pokemon GS don't need to have a battery anyway? because of the clock ?
I Have a pirate pokemon crystal that don't have clock and it have some wreinds bugs... not sure if is for differnte " circuit" issues or by being a fake XD

 

[aldighieri]

Are you sure those are gbc carts? I can remember that there are a lot of more components around the battery.

Yes GBC carts, this one dont use battery, i think the black drop is a F-RAM. Nowadays the board is smaller.

 

[Sliter]

Sry to bump this topic, but i have 3 GBC pokemon carts that dont use bat and save with no problem, look the pic.

Im looking for more pkm carts like this one, but i cant find. I need to check if the clock on Gold version is working, but i think its not.

wich games are these? Pokemon?
Threse are repro anyway, that solved my question above about fake gbc games without battery :v almost sure the clock don't work on GS threse... there not even the clock thing on the board

 

[aldighieri]

wich games are these? Pokemon?
Threse are repro anyway, that solved my question above about fake gbc games without battery :v almost sure the clock don't work on GS threse... there not even the clock thing on the board

Poke Gold, Green and Red. The Gold dont have the clock working. You know how to repro this carts?

 

[Sliter]

Poke Gold, Green and Red. The Gold dont have the clock working. You know how to repro this carts?

how to not actually, they make black chip like these and burn the rom on them with a machine xD
Gold don't work clock because of the clock thing (and a battery to feed that), I don't think this can be made working unless the circuit have the feature for that ...

the clock thing is that with white tape on the on the top left of the board

Btw, do they work with pokemon stadium? I'm curious XD

 

[yafeee]

Hello, glad to see there is still an interest for this mod

Funny that you mention Pokemon Stadium. I'm still using my modded Pokemon Blue and Yellow, but recently discovered that they are now not compatible with Pokemon Stadium.

 

[Sliter]

Hello, glad to see there is still an interest for this mod

Funny that you mention Pokemon Stadium. I'm still using my modded Pokemon Blue and Yellow, but recently discovered that they are now not compatible with Pokemon Stadium.

why? 100% incompatible? I remember by using pirates they may not be able to play or get a team, but could use the pokes on the minigames :v
maybe they check the batteries or something? lol

 

[migles]

Hello, glad to see there is still an interest for this mod

Funny that you mention Pokemon Stadium. I'm still using my modded Pokemon Blue and Yellow, but recently discovered that they are now not compatible with Pokemon Stadium.

interested in this as well, but with gen 2 there is the clock problem..
do anyone know if there a mod to put a rechargeable battery and charge system in the card? probably it's complex but i do think it's possible...

 

[Rabby250]

Well, it's good to see someone else interested in this subject!

I've been giving up on trying for a while so here's a wrap-up for those who were still trying:

Our previous attempt was to find a non-volatile drop-off replacement for the SRAM chip on genuine Pokémon carts so that the carts can save without batteries.
(Sorry aldighieri, your carts were repro carts, which were not official Pokémon carts and thus not related to the discussion. Official Pokémon carts don't have glob tops.)

Every Game Boy cart has a chip called MBC. In Pokémon carts, there are 4 different types of MBC:

1. MBC1: the oldest MBC which could be found on early titles
2. MBC3: the MBC introduced between MBC1 and MBC5; in addition, MBC3 was required for most games with real-time clock (RTC) features
3. MBC5: the latest MBC which could be found on titles released near the end of GBC's lifecycle
4. MBC30: a special type of MBC found only on Japanese Crystal for RTC and large RAM support

A table of which Pokémon cart comes with which MBC is shown below:

          R/G/B   Yellow  G/S     Crystal

Japanese  MBC1    (MBC3)  (MBC3)  [MBC30]

English   (MBC3)  MBC5    (MBC3)  (MBC3)

European  MBC5    MBC5    (MBC3)  (MBC3)

The problem we had run into was that while there exist some known FRAM chips (FM1808-70, FM1808B and FM18W08) which in theory could be the replacements we're looking for, our installation attempts showed that they only work on MBC1 and MBC5 carts, and will result in graphic glitches and save failures on MBC3 carts.

Since most of the Gen II games come with MBC3, this means that we have yet to find a replacement for the Gen II games. We'll either have to find other replacements or install additional circuits instead of just a drop-off.
(Note: Japanese Crystal is out of the question since its RAM was 4x larger than other games and no replacements are available.)

Hope this explains the situation we're in.

 

[OfficialFBomb]

Just wanted to mention the original OP listed to use the FM28V020 and lift the top right pin.. Thats why it worked with Gold, you used the FM18W08 which is why it worked with Yellow, they are somewhat identical but somewhat not.. The last poster was not the OP posting..

But who knows, i was planning to order an 08 and 20 but i keep finding ones with a -sg or -pg and idk if there the same or not

 

[Sliter]

I see that nobody care much about working with pokemon stadium (well maybe I care too much? hhaha could be because was something I wanted much as kid and never got?:B hahaha )
BUt this could be by the fact that there are no batery? if you use the non volatility save thing but have a battery, it could work? or because the save structure?

(not that I have much to do more than curiosity... I just have an japanse silver that I changed the battery recently but never really got it to play lol more than this, a pirate crystal full of bugs XD )

 

[Rabby250]

Just wanted to mention the original OP listed to use the FM28V020 and lift the top right pin.. Thats why it worked with Gold, you used the FM18W08 which is why it worked with Yellow, they are somewhat identical but somewhat not.. The last poster was not the OP posting..

But who knows, i was planning to order an 08 and 20 but i keep finding ones with a -sg or -pg and idk if there the same or not

The reason we're trying the FM18 chips was that the maximum voltage of FM28V020 does not match PCBs of Gameboy carts, and will require some extra work (e.g. lift pin) instead of just a drop-off.
Since the FM18 chips works under the same voltage as Gameboy carts, they were considered "theoretically" as drop-off replacements - until we tried and found out it wasn't the case in MBC3s.

I see that nobody care much about working with pokemon stadium (well maybe I care too much? hhaha could be because was something I wanted much as kid and never got?:B hahaha )
BUt this could be by the fact that there are no batery? if you use the non volatility save thing but have a battery, it could work? or because the save structure?

(not that I have much to do more than curiosity... I just have an japanse silver that I changed the battery recently but never really got it to play lol more than this, a pirate crystal full of bugs XD )

Stadium 2 (U/E) and Stadium GS (J) apply non-volatile saves by default, so I guess that's the reason why they're not mentioned in NVRAM modification threads.
(So yes, players could at least deposit all their rare Pokémon and items into Stadium 2 to exclude those from possible data loss.)

Sorry I couldn't understand your last question, but as non-volatile saves do not rely on batteries to keep the data, the issue shouldn't be related to having a battery installed or not.
(That's why we're doing the NVRAM mods - you won't loss your save when the battery runs out. We still need a battery to run the clock, but that should be the only thing which needs a battery.)

 

[Sliter]

The reason we're trying the FM18 chips was that the maximum voltage of FM28V020 does not match PCBs of Gameboy carts, and will require some extra work (e.g. lift pin) instead of just a drop-off.
Since the FM18 chips works under the same voltage as Gameboy carts, they were considered "theoretically" as drop-off replacements - until we tried and found out it wasn't the case in MBC3s.



Stadium 2 (U/E) and Stadium GS (J) apply non-volatile saves by default, so I guess that's the reason why they're not mentioned in NVRAM modification threads.
(So yes, players could at least deposit all their rare Pokémon and items into Stadium 2 to exclude those from possible data loss.)

Sorry I couldn't understand your last question, but as non-volatile saves do not rely on batteries to keep the data, the issue shouldn't be related to having a battery installed or not.
(That's why we're doing the NVRAM mods - you won't loss your save when the battery runs out. We still need a battery to run the clock, but that should be the only thing which needs a battery.)

That I understood before, these GS with save type mod weren't working on the stadiums, but now you told me that works and stuff ... so I'm not sure :v

 

[JS7777]

Hello,

Sorry to bump this post but it will be cool to fix this problem.

So, i bought a FM16W08 and i've installed it in a gameboy game : Wario Land Super Mario land 3 (MBC1 and 64kbit sram)

I've uploaded a 100% save in the cartridge.

Tried on my gameboy and works but then i got some glitches. "Wario" is invisible, impossible to play.

So i found this topic 3 month earlier and i decided to post here today.

I've contacted BeenVenn, if you don't know him check his shop https://bennvenn.myshopify.com.
He makes cartridges with fram chips but later i've noticed he makes his own mbc chip.

I've explained the problem and he told me to try to multipex the /CE signal with the cartbus /CLK signal. I've tried with a CD4011, didn't work, black nintendo logo. In the process i've swapped pin 1 and 3 by mistake so this could have damaged the MBC1.

Later on i found this :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gameboy/comments/4rkoyz/bennvenns_gbgbc_high_quality_reproduction_pcb/

In a post BeenVeen says :

RAMTRON brand FRAM has an unusual requirement where the /CE line must be strobed before any read or write in order to 'precharge' the magic within, and update the address matrix (It's all in the datasheet). On the older GB ROM's the gameboy does single byte reads and writes which due to the nature of the GB bus the /CE line automatically strobes.

The GBA is a little lazy in this regard and holds the /CE line low and just increments the address bus. On a real ROM/SRAM this is a legitimate way of reading data (assuming you adhere to timings) but with the FRAM it simply repeats the same data from the address where the /CE line first became active.

Gold/Silver etc are a lot more optimised and also perform multiple RAM address reads/writes without de-asserting the /CE signal. This is why they glitch. You can fix this by multiplexing the /CE signal with the cartbus CLK(PHI) signal.

As I code my own MBC in a CPLD (An enormous amount of logic gates which I can arrange in any particular order) I can ensure the /CE signal is strobed at ever access request.

Could be great if someone tries to multiplex /CE and /CLK cartbus, even if i already did. (My cart could be damaged)

I'm gonna buy a Logic analyser soon...

 

[JS7777]

Update :
I've installed the FM16W08 in a homemade flash cart with an mbc5 and a am29f080b.
Every game i've tested works without glitches and save functionality works expect Wario Land Super Mario land 3. (Save works but it's impossible to play, invisible character)
I have no idea why...

 

[Sliter]

Update :
I've installed the FM16W08 in a homemade flash cart with an mbc5 and a am29f080b.
Every game i've tested works without glitches and save functionality works expect Wario Land Super Mario land 3. (Save works but it's impossible to play, invisible character)
I have no idea why...

maybe rom glitch? õ3o try other dumps/region

how is a homemade flashcard? o-o

 

[JS7777]

I Poop on your NTR

What ?

maybe rom glitch? õ3o try other dumps/region

Will try

how is a homemade flashcard? o-o

http://www.reinerziegler.de/download/MBC5_Cart.pdf

 

[Sliter]

http://www.reinerziegler.de/download/MBC5_Cart.pdf

Maaaaaaan It would hut me so much killing a zelda game ( almost got an extra oracle one time but at last I could not :v)
by the color must be an awakening DX? I don't have this yet...
Also could be added the clock stuff for the GS pokemon or need to be done to a acutall GS pokemon board?

Maybe I would ask someone to do one like this for me, not sure if I can by myself ... I was wanting for future pokemon hack/translation plans ...

Also how to write the rom to it?

I almost got one like this one time because I heard we could write any games to it, but the guy wanted too much for what I had that time xD

Also I heard that the new bootlegs can be re-flashed, both GBA and GB/c ones, O wonder what kind of device I need, if this is true ...