Pokémon - The Battle Between Legitimacy and Legality

[Ryukouki]

If I wasn't lazy I would look up the press release where someone from GF basically said this is the road they are headed down. EV/IV are literally the thing (well maybe shines too but that doesn't matter since it's all aesthetic) that drives hacks, gens, clones, etc. Level the playing field completely by getting rid of these stats that don't actually need to be there, and you get rid of the controversy overnight.

I am going to come out and say that if you want to be competitive, TRULY competitive, you are going to clone, or gen (notice I don't say HACK, because moves that have no business being on a mon have no business being in the game, PERIOD). If you legitimately DO NOT do that (and I honestly believe such a person doesn't exist) you are literally spending hundreds of hours just getting your proven team built and ready for tournament.

...which was what I was indirectly saying in the first post.

 

[lordofthereef]

There is a list of clones on a google doc. (I cannot find the link atm). BUT, if you are that worried that it is a clone. Then breed the pokemon.

The argument was made that kids play this game. Kids are not going to go out and read google docs to make sure the monster isn;t a clone. Furthermore, anything generated today can be a clone tomorrow. I can breed a monster, clone it, and trade it to someone. There will literally be no record of that being a clone at the point of sale. So what, I am supposed to check and see if my monster is in this "clone database" every once and a while? Talk about adding more micromanaging to a game that has no business requiring more.

 

[Ryukouki]

I honestly feel like that clone list adds nothing but serious paranoia. It's like, oh, beware of any and all trades because your trade might not be legitimate. That wouldn't be a conducive environment to play games in, not exactly.

 

[lordofthereef]

And yeah its hard to know wether or not a pokemon is hacked.
And I wouldnt call the person who got a perfect hacked pokemon from the GTS a cheater if he wasnt aware that it was hacked somehow.
But its still lower the value of those great pokemon if people start to flood the GTS with perfect pokemon. Haha pokemon inflation

It's not a matter of IF. These monsters are already all over the place. There is no turning back.

I honestly feel like that clone list adds nothing but serious paranoia. It's like, oh, beware of any and all trades because your trade might not be legitimate. That wouldn't be a conducive environment to play games in, not exactly.

Nope. And furthermore there isn't a whole lot anyone can actually do about it, including GF, because, statistically speaking, a clone can happen naturally. Chaances are extremely slim. BUT, the fact that it can happen sort of means that clones of legit monsters are also legit monsters, by default.

 

[Ryukouki]

Nope. And furthermore there isn't a whole lot anyone can actually do about it, including GF, because, statistically speaking, a clone can happen naturally. Chaances are extremely slim. BUT, the fact that it can happen sort of means that clones of legit monsters are also legit monsters, by default.

It's not even a slim chance, I'm actually pretty proficient at it, as I had a box of German Xerneas laying around at some point.

 

[lordofthereef]

It's not even a slim chance, I'm actually pretty proficient at it, as I had a box of German Xerneas laying around at some point.

I think you misread what I said.

I am saying that you have a clone with all identifiers randomly generated that also occurs randomly on another cartridge somewhere in the world. It's not you doing an exploit to make the clone happen. It happens "naturally".

 

[Ryukouki]

I think you misread what I said.

I am saying that you have a clone with all identifiers randomly generated that also occurs randomly on another cartridge somewhere in the world. It's not you doing an exploit to make the clone happen. It happens "naturally".

OH. That makes more sense.

 

[DaniPoo]

Well, with the same ID and secret ID and caught by the same trainer?

 

[lordofthereef]

Well, with the same ID and secret ID and caught by the same trainer?

Sure. How many people do you think call themselves "ash" or leave the default name (come to think of it I don't remember if there was a default name, was there?)? Its technically possible for you to catch a "clone" on your own cart too. And since that is POSSIBLE, GF can;t really ban these mons.

 

[DaniPoo]

Good point, but still a very small chance that every other ID and stat would match. Not impossible.

 

[lordofthereef]

Good point, but still a very small chance that every other ID and stat would match. Not impossible.

I'm not arguing how small the chance is though. I made the statement simply to point out that clones exist, and since they can technically exist "naturally", they will continue to exist without being banned. So onward goes the never-ending cycle. Which brings us back to... drum roll please... if you want to be competitive you are going to clone/gen your mon.

EDIT: By the way, chances become much MUCH higher when chaining pokemon in grass/flowers which, unless I am mistaken, is a completely acceptable method of catching "rare" monsters, is it not?

 

[DaniPoo]

Unless nintendo update the game to add a new ID to every pokemon, like for instance your 3DS serialnumber. atleast that would prevent any new clones

 

[lordofthereef]

Unless nintendo update the game to add a new ID to every pokemon, like for instance your 3DS serialnumber. atleast that would prevent any new clones

They probably wouldn't do that, not unless they went 100% digital, for a few reasons.
1. Consoles can be swapped/sold
2. Consoles can break
3. It would still be technically possible to catch your own clone
4. They are already talking about getting rid of IV/EV for next gen, and the damage is already irreversible in THIS gen, so the point is sort of moot.

Really, the best way to stop all of this (outside of just getting rid of EV which is th abetter idea IMO) is to rely more heavily on server checks. This would essentially make the game an online game, and thus not so conducive to being a handheld.

 

[DaniPoo]

I dont see the point in the first two reasons. I dont mean that the pokemon would be bound to that same 3DS but still pokemon caugh on that 3DS would carry a console unique ID that no other person could get.
I see your point in the 3rd reason but I dont think it would be impossible to prevent a clone encounters from happening locally.

 

[AaronUzumaki]

I don't know about online play, as I don't battle online outside of battles with my friends, but as far as official Play! Pokemon organized tournament play is concerned, competitors are forbidden by the X and Y series rules to use transferred Pokemon in tournaments. So, if it doesn't affect organized play, it doesn't affect me. As far as online goes, Game Freak could always implement a patch that adds an online battle mode which doesn't allow the use of transferred Pokemon.

 

[DaniPoo]

Yeah and then the hackers will make it som that the pokemon looks like they are hatched in Kalos...

 

[lordofthereef]

I dont see the point in the first two reasons. I dont mean that the pokemon would be bound to that same 3DS but still pokemon caugh on that 3DS would carry a console unique ID that no other person could get.
I see your point in the 3rd reason but I dont think it would be impossible to prevent a clone encounters from happening locally.

I sell my ads to another guy. That guy now has a chance to catch a clone.

 

[DaniPoo]

Sorry now Im not really sure I understand what you are saying. Sell what?

 

[lordofthereef]

Sorry now Im not really sure I understand what you are saying. Sell what?

I sell my 3DS

I don't know about online play, as I don't battle online outside of battles with my friends, but as far as official Play! Pokemon organized tournament play is concerned, competitors are forbidden by the X and Y series rules to use transferred Pokemon in tournaments. So, if it doesn't affect organized play, it doesn't affect me. As far as online goes, Game Freak could always implement a patch that adds an online battle mode which doesn't allow the use of transferred Pokemon.

The concern that the person who hates genned/cloned mon to begin with will have is the ease of breeding from genned mon (wow did I say ease of breeding for reals?????)

I transfer over 2 mons, one male one female, with the moves I want, and breed away. I will have a 5IV bred in kalos with the abilities I want in no time flat. More work than just gunning? Absolutely. A lot LESS work than breeding from scratch? You bet.

Until (if) we get gunning working for kalos monsters, really the only thing that this has stopped is people having 5/6IV shines in battles.

Do I have an issue with that? Eh. Not really. It's annoying, but there will still be cloning.

 

[DaniPoo]

I still dont see the problem. Nintendo could just say, ok we can let 3 clones pass. That means that you have to encounter 3 clones on the same 3ds but on different savefiles.
That would be so extremely unlikely if you add your serial numer into the mix that you'll have a better chance bruteforcing PS4...