Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[megazig]

where is this compare opcode so that I may nop it out?

 

[PityOnU]

where is this compare opcode so that I may nop it out?

I don't know as I haven't messed around with it at all. If seriously no one else is looking into this then I'll make a summer project out of it.

If someone else is already halfway there though let me know as I don't want to waste my time.

 

[Maxternal]

The problem is that's already been tried. Devolution's binary blob (loader.bin) is encrypted and (as tueidj has put it when talking about other parts of it) "moves around in memory a lot during initialization." It makes it rather difficult to get AT the assembly code to be able to change anything.

Tueidj had commented earlier about how easy it would be (and kinda how) to crack Riivolution. He's also the one who found the exploit that let us install HBC on vWii. I think he understands hacking and cracking processes well enough that he was able to make it VERY difficult to do on his app.

Devolution was reportedly cracked already but the person who had enough knowledge to be able to do it (who apparently didn't want his name mentioned either) decided not to release it. It's very well possible, too, that he may have told tueidj about how he did crack it and that tueidj then upped the security even more, who knows.

 

[Rydian]

Tueidj and Twiizers/f0f in general are no strangers to obfuscating their crap. I haven't even bothered taking the first steps I'd use to try this because I've never done any assembly modification for anything other than x86 (and within running programs in Windows, no less), and even if I knew the basics and had done it once or twice, I don't know 1/100th of what these guys know.

 

[PsyBlade]

if you released such a crack you could be sure that it would be fixed in the next version
keeping quiet means keeping playing with future versions

additionally there could be checks in there to make sure the checks is still in place

 

[Slimmmmmm]

Tueidj must drop by this topic once in a while, smile and then smile again. It's fun

Still no word of the hex edited nand ?

The tricks used to protect this baby are like a Russian doll, a Chinese puzzle box or an itch you can't scratch, and that's good.

I am rooting on both sides now...hmm

Whoever cracks this is a genius and I'm sure Tueidj would smile too (as he fixes it) if anyone ever does.

Now if we are to look at both "sides" Tueidj has made his move, the ball is not in his court and where is the opposition ?

I get the feeling that those that can crack this have no interest in posting it in public, and those in public claiming to be working on cracking it have got nowhere, but yet the post count in this topic grows and grows.

So maybe the AP was added for the pure entertainment value ?

 

[Rydian]

IIRC he said he knows people who cracked it, and yeah they're just keeping it to themselves.

 

[air2004]

Tueidj must drop by this topic once in a while, smile and then smile again. It's fun

I get the feeling that those that can crack this have no interest in posting it in public, and those in public claiming to be working on cracking it have got nowhere, but yet the post count in this topic grows and grows.

So maybe the AP was added for the pure entertainment value ?

I'm surprised this topic has lasted so long
I only created it because I couldn't understand his thinking (and to give people a place to bitch ), and I was looking forward to using his program , but , I'm not gonna go out and buy any of the games .

 

[the_randomizer]

I'm surprised this topic has lasted so long
I only created it because I couldn't understand his thinking (and to give people a place to bitch ), and I was looking forward to using his program , but , I'm not gonna go out and buy any of the games .

Because no one but second hand retailers gets money, the devs don't get money, so I won't buy any Gamecube games either. Too bad, so sad.

 

[edwardbirkholz05]

Because no one but second hand retailers gets money, the devs don't get money, so I won't buy any Gamecube games either. Too bad, so sad.

So people can't sell their games themselves on ebay, craigslist, or any other local advertiser? Or are you just making up excuses to justify pirating?
Let's say I own a car, a house and a pc, none of which I created myself. Does that mean they're worthless? Of course not, they're worth whatever amount somebody else is willing to pay for the privilege of owning them. The same goes for my video games collection. I paid the developer (or the retailer if you wish to be specific) for the privilege of playing their game and I can relinquish that privilege to somebody else in exchange for money - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However if nobody wants to pay for that privilege because they can already do it for free, I'm the one who's been screwed over - not the developer.
Second-hand dealers exist in many forms: used car salesmen, pawn shops, real estate agents... It's basically their job to rip people off; they sell things for more than what they would pay themselves. But there's no reason you have to use them and their behavior does not entitle you to steal from legitimate owners. Devolution is protecting the value of your used gamecube games - unless of course you don't actually own any and are just looking for a free ride.

 

[Rydian]

What he means is that no matter where he buys a Gamecube game right now, Nintendo will not get a cut of the profit. This is because they're not sold retail, and have not been sold retail for years.

 

[the_randomizer]

So people can't sell their games themselves on ebay, craigslist, or any other local advertiser? Or are you just making up excuses to justify pirating?Let's say I own a car, a house and a pc, none of which I created myself. Does that mean they're worthless? Of course not, they're worth whatever amount somebody else is willing to pay for the privilege of owning them. The same goes for my video games collection. I paid the developer (or the retailer if you wish to be specific) for the privilege of playing their game and I can relinquish that privilege to somebody else in exchange for money - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However if nobody wants to pay for that privilege because they can already do it for free, I'm the one who's been screwed over - not the developer.Second-hand dealers exist in many forms: used car salesmen, pawn shops, real estate agents... It's basically their job to rip people off; they sell things for more than what they would pay themselves. But there's no reason you have to use them and their behavior does not entitle you to steal from legitimate owners. Devolution is protecting the value of your used gamecube games - unless of course you don't actually own any and are just looking for a free ride.

I do own all my Gamecube games, but let's be honest, most everyone has or is currently pirating. Nintendo doesn't get revenue from used games. What I do is my business and what others do is theirs. Piracy is not theft, the reason it's illegal is you're downloading an unauthorized copy; the original copy exists, you don't have the rights to own copy. Piracy !=theft. If anything, selling products for overinflated prices is just as wrong as piracy. Besides, if I do, are you going to send someone to hunt me down? You'll have to send them after a majority of the people here.

What he means is that no matter where he buys a Gamecube game right now, Nintendo will not get a cut of the profit. This is because they're not sold retail, and have not been sold retail for years.

Exactly, it doesn't make it any less wrong, but Nintendo doesn't get revenue. No one but greedy second hand retailers get money.

 

[edwardbirkholz05]

I do own all my Gamecube games, but let's be honest, most everyone has or is currently pirating. Nintendo doesn't get revenue from used games. What I do is my business and what others do is theirs. Piracy is not theft, the reason it's illegal is you're downloading an unauthorized copy; the original copy exists, you don't have the rights to own copy. Piracy !=theft. If anything, selling products for overinflated prices is just as wrong as piracy. Besides, if I do, are you going to send someone to hunt me down? You'll have to send them after a majority of the people here.

Exactly, it doesn't make it any less wrong, but Nintendo doesn't get revenue. No one but greedy second hand retailers get money.

I don't think you read anything I wrote.
Nobody said Devolution's AP is there to protect Nintendo's revenue. It's there to protect the value of the games.
Why are you convinced second hand retailers are the only possibility for buying used games? Why can't people sell their games privately on ebay and such? Who said anything about it being "wrong" because Nintendo isn't getting any revenue for it? Saying "selling products for overinflated prices is just as wrong as piracy" is ridiculous when nobody is being forced to pay those prices. As a game owner, those inflated prices are actually increasing the value of the product you own. Piracy does the opposite by reducing the demand for the physical item.

 

[air2004]

So people can't sell their games themselves on ebay, craigslist, or any other local advertiser? Or are you just making up excuses to justify pirating?
Let's say I own a car, a house and a pc, none of which I created myself. Does that mean they're worthless? Of course not, they're worth whatever amount somebody else is willing to pay for the privilege of owning them. The same goes for my video games collection. I paid the developer (or the retailer if you wish to be specific) for the privilege of playing their game and I can relinquish that privilege to somebody else in exchange for money - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However if nobody wants to pay for that privilege because they can already do it for free, I'm the one who's been screwed over - not the developer.
Second-hand dealers exist in many forms: used car salesmen, pawn shops, real estate agents... It's basically their job to rip people off; they sell things for more than what they would pay themselves. But there's no reason you have to use them and their behavior does not entitle you to steal from legitimate owners. Devolution is protecting the value of your used gamecube games - unless of course you don't actually own any and are just looking for a free ride.

The modern PC OS was founded on pirating . So bitching about piracy is all wrong .

 

[the_randomizer]

I don't think you read anything I wrote.
Nobody said Devolution's AP is there to protect Nintendo's revenue. It's there to protect the value of the games.
Why are you convinced second hand retailers are the only possibility for buying used games? Why can't people sell their games privately on ebay and such? Who said anything about it being "wrong" because Nintendo isn't getting any revenue for it? Saying "selling products for overinflated prices is just as wrong as piracy" is ridiculous when nobody is being forced to pay those prices. As a game owner, those inflated prices are actually increasing the value of the product you own. Piracy does the opposite by reducing the demand for the physical item.

I never said people weren't allowed to sell them on Craigslist or eBay, but if people are going to sell them for high prices, who's going to buy them? There are only a finite amount of games in circulation. If people chose to pirate, they chose to pirate and no one should force their agenda on them. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do? If I buy used games or if I download them, people like you shouldn't be bothered by what others do.

 

[edwardbirkholz05]

If that's your argument why are you so opposed to the wiikeu? Stop forcing your agenda on other people!

 

[PsyBlade]

Because no one but second hand retailers gets money, the devs don't get money, so I won't buy any Gamecube games either. Too bad, so sad.

By this fucking stupid logic you can't buy anything.

Nintendo goes not get an cut of new games either. Thats just how it works. The current owner of the object gets money, everyone else doesn't.

Take you local supermarket for example. Everything you see in the shelves sell is owned by them (them even being the place probably, not the chain).
It does not matter if it is sold, keeps there forever or is rotting away, the producer gets his money regardless.
Thats because the producer has alreay sold it to a distributor and is now out of the picture.
This distributor then sold it to the retailer and is out of the picture too regardless of whatever the retailer does with the stuff.

(Yes exceptions exist but are rare in comparison)

 

[Rydian]

Ehhh, it's generally held that buying stock from retail shops supports the publisher because when the shop runs out of stock, they're liable to order more. So it's a net profit.

It's just not profit per-purchase an individual consumer makes.

 

[PsyBlade]

yes, the seller now has a better idea of what kind of things he can sell an the money to buy more things
you argue that the shop would use the money to get more of that kind of games, I agree
but wouldn't that be true for a gamer looking to buy,play and then sell a game too

 

[Rydian]

yes, the seller now has a better idea of what kind of things he can sell an the money to buy more things
you argue that the shop would use the money to get more of that kind of games, I agree
but wouldn't that be true for a gamer looking to buy,play and then sell a game too

Eh, single users tend to not get replacement stock.