Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Slimmmmmm]

I have cracked it, but I'm not gonna say how because I respect tueidj .

TT/Fof cracked the WiiU but they wont spill the beans because they respect Nintendo

 

[WiiUBricker]

TT/Fof cracked the WiiU but they wont spill the beans because they respect Nintendo

Obviously

 

[bobmcjr]

As you can probably tell I forgot how bruteforcing really works and how many combinations there are so I am running a simulation in java to see how long it will take.

 

[the_randomizer]

TT/Fof cracked the WiiU but they wont spill the beans because they respect Nintendo

But what they have isn't useful for the average user.

 

[Maxternal]

By key, I mean the .DVV files that devolution generates for each game, on each wii (by default, they are hidden on windows computers). Each key file is only 256 bytes. The first 32 bytes are from the game itself, leaving 224 bytes of possible key, each with 256 (0x00-0xFF) values per byte. Granted it will still take a bit of time, but what are you gonna do when you have a broken optical drive?

I see where you're coming from but the correct math for this would be 256^224 and not 256*244. This comes out to 4.0789796 * 10^587 possibilities. Which is WAY more than even just trying to brute force the key it's encrypted with that [user]SifJar[/user] mentioned (assuming you actually know what encryption algorithm he's using.)


EDIT : even just brute forcing the key out with a reasonably efficient algorithm would take so much time that all the stars in the universe would run out of nuclear fuel before you get done.

 

[bobmcjr]

I see where you're coming from but the correct math for this would be 256^224 and not 256*244. This comes out to 4.0789796 * 10^587 possibilities. Which is WAY more than even just trying to brute force the key it's encrypted with that [user]SifJar[/user] mentioned (assuming you actually know what encryption algorithm he's using.)

Yeah that makes more sense.. I forgot how to math. In the time it takes to crack that (assuming you start at 0x00 for all bytes and end with 0xFF) devolution could be reverse engineered a billion times over...

 

[Mollycule]

This is retarded, nobody can get ahold of legit discs anymore. last PM:TTYD disc I saw was up at £60, which is no price a working class 20 year old can afford..

Though bypassing the check is easy enough given the knowhow.

 

[stomp_442]

This is retarded, nobody can get ahold of legit discs anymore. .

there's tons of them for sale on amazon

https://www.google.com/search?sourc....1j4j1j2j0j1j1.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.2XPHxns6KiM

 

[bobmcjr]

there's tons of them for sale on amazon

https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=&q=gamecube games amazon uk &oq=gamecube games, amazon&gs_l=igoogle.1.1.0j0i22i30l7.104.3553.0.8539.10.10.0.0.0.0.753.2965.1j4j1j2j0j1j1.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.2XPHxns6KiM

It depends on the game, but already the artificial price inflation has begun.

Soon, I will upload a video of a non working disk drive to prove that it DOES happen. Tueidj hasn't logged on in over half a year so I doubt he cares too much about devolution anymore (or is keeping quiet about an update like another little ******** I know)

This is retarded, nobody can get ahold of legit discs anymore. last PM:TTYD disc I saw was up at £60, which is no price a working class 20 year old can afford..

Though bypassing the check is easy enough given the knowhow.

I was lucky and got the last copy of PM:TTYD for $25 at Walmart in 2008.

<rant>Now ideally we would start from the ground up on a google code website to remake devolution. Loading Gamecube games in Wii mode certainly isn't easy, but as devolution proves is possible. Porting dolphin really isn't an option but the Gamecube loading code could be helpful and make a VM of sorts that still runs the Gamecube code directly on the Wii hardware. And of course this has probably all been mentioned before, but I do not feel like going back 63 pages to look for it.</rant>

 

[SifJar]

By key, I mean the .DVV files that devolution generates for each game, on each wii (by default, they are hidden on windows computers). Each key file is only 256 bytes. The first 32 bytes are from the game itself, leaving 224 bytes of possible key, each with 256 (0x00-0xFF) values per byte. Granted it will still take a bit of time, but what are you gonna do when you have a broken optical drive?

That still isn't 224*256 combinations. It's 224^256 256^224. Which is even more huge than the last number I quoted.

Here's something of a "proof":

Let's say you have a sequence of 3 numbers, and each can be any number from 1-3. By your reasoning, that'd be 3*3 = 9 combinations.

111
112
113
121
122
123
131
132
133 ... that's 9 already with just the sequences starting with "1". Obviously there will also be 9 starting with 2 and 9 starting with 3 for a total of 27, or 3^3

 

[the_randomizer]

there's tons of them for sale on amazon

https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=&q=gamecube games amazon uk &oq=gamecube games, amazon&gs_l=igoogle.1.1.0j0i22i30l7.104.3553.0.8539.10.10.0.0.0.0.753.2965.1j4j1j2j0j1j1.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.2XPHxns6KiM

Amazon UK? Weird choice seeing as your flag says USA

http://www.amazon.com/Games-GameCube/b?ie=UTF8&node=700086

 

[SifJar]

Amazon UK? Weird choice seeing as your flag says USA

http://www.amazon.com/Games-GameCube/b?ie=UTF8&node=700086

The person who he is talking to has a UK flag. He is pointing them to where they can buy games.

 

[the_randomizer]

The person who he is talking to has a UK flag. He is pointing them to where they can buy games.

Whoops.

 

[Elliander]

My thoughts on this: Since Devolution can use classic controllers it (or will) that is what people need to use if they want to migrate all of their games to the Wii-U. DIOS MIOS can't work on the Wii-U and even if it did it couldn't make use of the classic controllers.

I'm not entirely sure what the anti-piracy talk is about, but "clean 1:1 disc image" presents a problem: It wastes hard drive space. It also presents a problem for people whose discs are damaged in some way. Nearly all of my game discs are in storage to rip again if I had to, but some of them - like Mario Party 4 - is damaged so can't create a new disc rip. This brings us to the second problem being the ability to properly protect old games. Let's face it: They get old and worn out. The entire purpose of backup loaders (for me) is to protect those discs. Needing to rip and re-rip every time someone makes a new loader would get really old really fast.

Still, I really don't see this as really preventing people from being pirates. Oh, sure, it would be more difficult to pirate since more disc images people download are not a clean image, but there is nothing that would stop people from sharing their clean disc images so I don't really see it as an anti-piracy measure.

Of course, even if Devolution worked exactly like DIOS MIOS I am not in a major rush to jump to the Wii-U.I have 4 perfectly functional Wavebird controllers so unless someone makes a dongle that can communicate with the Wavebird (which would be really cool) I would probably prefer keeping my Wii set up for the Gamecube even if I got the Wii-U. I play more classic games than anything else anyway.

The person who he is talking to has a UK flag. He is pointing them to where they can buy games.

Incidentally, the cost of those games are the same price used as the new ones used to be. Even if someone bought them new the producer won't see any increase in profit as a result, and it's clearly not a "support the developer" issue.

 

[bobmcjr]

@Elliander, I am fairly certain 1:1 disc images is either for A) hash-summing the iso to compare it to the .dvv file or B) Something to do with audio streaming (or both). I think audio streaming does rely on certain parts of the iso to be at the correct address in the file. None the less, at this point, how can the implementation of DRM even be considered a 'moral'? By this logic, all single-computer and always-on DRM are morally sound as well.

Obligatory conspiracy theory:

Spoiler

Tueidj is being payed by game resellers to require discs in order to use devolution and inflate the prices of used gamecube games.

 

[Elliander]

@Elliander, I am fairly certain 1:1 disc images is either for A) hash-summing the iso to compare it to the .dvv file or B) Something to do with audio streaming (or both). I think audio streaming does rely on certain parts of the iso to be at the correct address in the file.

Oh? I thought 1:1 just meant that it was an exact copy of the disc image exactly as it is, empty space and all. I know that all Gamecube .ISO files are the same size, but once processed can deflate to smaller sizes. If the 1:1 doesn't affect file sizes it would actually be a pretty good idea for ensuring 100% compatibility.

None the less, at this point, how can the implementation of DRM even be considered a 'moral'? By this logic, all single-computer and always-on DRM are morally sound as well.

Hey now, I never said it was "moral", but as others have said it is his program. Making a pro-piracy argument really isn't a good way to encourage someone to improve their program for your benefit. I happen to agree with you that it doesn't make sense to have any copyright protection in it, but I still don't know exactly what kind of anti-piracy tools it is supposed to have.

I don't use Riivolution because it requires the disc inserted and I want to extend the life of my discs, but it's not because I don't have the discs. In fact, whenever I make a video I always show the game disc in my hand before using a backup loader to show others that I actually own it. I don't approve of piracy, but when the sale of a product no longer benefits the people who made it I really don't see the big deal in others doing it in that context. Of course I know others will disagree. That's just my opinion.

Obligatory conspiracy theory:

Spoiler

Tueidj is being payed by game resellers to require discs in order to use devolution and inflate the prices of used gamecube games.

That's a very interesting concept. I doubt it is the case though because the game companies do not profit from the increased sale of gamecube games. They don't even sell the new ones anymore. All the "new" titles are just old copies sold to warehouses. Gamestop might have that kind of influence if they wanted to, but they are no longer in the business of selling used gamecube games so they have no reason to. Honestly, I don't see anyone who would stand to benefit from doing that so even if I were to suspend disbelief on this I just can't see who could possibly gain.

Of course, I would totally love it if someone was doing that. It would mean that someone would even have the clout to build a piece of hardware for using the Wavebird controllers with the Wii-U. That would be amazing.

 

[Maxternal]

The 1:1 copy is not actually needed on all games. Some games, reportedly, still verify just fine when trimmed. As mentioned, a 1:1 is definitely needed with audio streaming because it just requests audio to be played from a certain position in the disk rather than a certain file so the audio info needs to stay where it was.

I'm guessing it doesn't pass the verification check sometimes because his check just hashes certain parts of the disk image and if the same files are in a different order then the hash is different.

He has admitted that that part isn't as much an anti-piracy, it's more he doesn't want to go after errors people say is in his program when it's really caused by shrinking down the ISO size or that the disk image is otherwise corrupt.

The AP simply comes in that the verification has to be done with an original retail disk. (This doesn't stop piracy as far as being able to borrow or rent original retail disks to copy them but it DOES at least make it harder than just downloading an ISO off the Internet.)

 

[bobmcjr]

@Elliander sorry the part about the 'morals' wasn't intended for you, it was meant for tueidj and his posse

Perhaps I've just gone cynical over the years but all I see DRM as is a way to punish those who purchase content... I'll just leave it at that...

 

[tmv_josue]

..."clean 1:1 disc image" presents a problem: It wastes hard drive space. It also presents a problem for people whose discs are damaged in some way.
...there is nothing that would stop people from sharing their clean disc images so I don't really see it as an anti-piracy measure.
...Even if someone bought them new the producer won't see any increase in profit as a result, and it's clearly not a "support the developer" issue.

*Get a good copy and verify it with your disc. Very probably work since it only reads 8 bytes from the beginning of the disc.

*The AP measure is the dvv file not the clean image (unique info of Wii and HDD).
*Someone pointed to preserve the value of those discs the people have.

(This doesn't stop piracy as far as being able to borrow or rent original retail disks to copy them but it DOES at least make it harder than just downloading an ISO off the Internet.)

He has been indulgent to leave it as is, If he wanted, could require the disc validate in each release (or worse, leave the disc inside like on the 360 XD)

Perhaps I've just gone cynical over the years but all I see DRM as is a way to punish those who purchase content...

How does it punish?, playing the audio streaming in games, improving the frames rate than originally, giving online support in PSO?

 

[Maxternal]

Yeah, "legit purchasers" would normally just pop their retail disk in and play. (I know there's exceptions about broken drives and scratched disks but that subject has SOO been beaten to death in this thread that I'd rather generalize here.) This DOESN'T punish you by making you stand up and switch disks every time you want to change games like the retail disks do and it DOESN'T punish you by taking away your online multiplayer with PhantasyStar Online like the retail disk does.

This is a "backup loader" in a true sense of the term. You back it up and you play it. Usually backup loaders can double as warez players but this one, for the most part, can't.