Hacking Devolution Speculation thread

[LWares87]

If there is a GUI, will it represent the original NGC IPL?

 

[GolfDude]

lets hope this can get integrated into other usb loaders so we can have an all in 1 program for usb loading.. but when it does get released it sure looks like itll be a standalone

 

[flamepanther]

If I have time (and I can't promise that I will), I will make a series of blog-type posts describing how most of the technical stuff inside Devolution works (at some later time after it has been finished, since I don't want to go back and rewrite parts every time I change my mind about something).

This may be the most awesome news to come out of this thread so far.

 

[zerofalcon]

Audio Streaming Demo#2



Amazing work with streaming audio games!

 

[wiismodrome]

They're not related. Frame rate depends solely on the video mode.

Admittedly, I'm not a programmer or an expert with regard to Wii hardware....

However, my impression is that the software tells the hardware to calculate game physics and draw certain elements on the screen at a given resolution and bit depth. If the Wii has a faster CPU and GPU than the Gamecube, it should be able to render each frame more quickly at any given resolution, because the Wii has roughly 1.5 X the Gamecube's processing power for both game physics and graphics rendering.

At least this is how I understand that it works with CPUs and GPUs with PCs; basically, as CPU and GPU power goes up, the number of frames rendered per second in a given application (game) goes up as well. Thus, provided no frame limiter is in place, a modern PC can render old DX8 games at hundreds of frames per second, while the hardware that was current when the games were released may have struggled to reach 30 FPS. This is certainly my experience when I've upgraded my computer. So, if the above is correct, and if there is no frame limiter in place, then the Wii should be able to render Gamecube games faster than the Gamecube can = increased framerates in Gamecube game running at full Wii clock rates.

 

[tueidj]

Anyone who creates a game that ignores vsync should be banned from ever developing games again.

 

[TheZoc]

not everyone likes vsync you know.

 

[tueidj]

Sorry, I assumed blind people weren't big fans of video games... unless you mean there are people who actually like screen tearing?

Anyway this is off-topic. The fact is a faster CPU means nothing for framerate speed. Look at PC games - they are designed to run at all different speeds, if a game already runs at 60fps and you overclock the cpu it doesn't run any faster. They just don't work that way unless they are very poorly written.

 

[wiismodrome]

Anyone who creates a game that ignores vsync should be banned from ever developing games again.

So, you're suggesting that Gamecube games employ VSync which effectively caps the framerates?

Even on PCs with VSync enabled, faster hardware generally improves framerates (by multiples), or allows the framerate to remain more consistent. Hypothetically, Gamecube games which were struggling to maintain 30 FPS with VSync enabled should have have no problem maintaining more consistent framerates with the faster Wii clock rates.

BTW, I'm not trying to challenge anyone here... just trying to understand what's going on, as this is what makes the most sense to me if the CPU/GPU clock speeds are increased by 1.5X.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Well, I will just leave this video here
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzVpo5IPdM[/youtube]

 

[SifJar]

Well, I will just leave this video here

That is without telling the game the clock speed etc. According to tueidj, if you tell the game the clock speed, it makes the games run as normal on the higher clock speed.

This video is achieved simply by directly booting MIOS instead of booting BC, which would in turn load MIOS in the normal operation of GC mode. Rest assured Devolution is a lot more advanced than that, most coders could throw together an app to do what is shown in that video in mere minutes (it's literally just loading a title as I understand it).

 

[WiiUBricker]

Well, I will just leave this video here

That is without telling the game the clock speed etc. According to tueidj, if you tell the game the clock speed, it makes the games run as normal on the higher clock speed.

My post was referring to these posts: http://gbatemp.net/topic/322683-devolution-speculation-thread/page__view__findpost__p__4191749 and http://gbatemp.net/topic/322683-devolution-speculation-thread/page__view__findpost__p__4191817 and http://gbatemp.net/topic/322683-devolution-speculation-thread/page__view__findpost__p__4195398

Obviously the video I posted contradicts certain claims regarding CPU clock/framerate.

 

[SifJar]

Well, I will just leave this video here

That is without telling the game the clock speed etc. According to tueidj, if you tell the game the clock speed, it makes the games run as normal on the higher clock speed.

My post was referring to these posts: http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4191749 and http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4191817 and http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4195398

Obviously the video I posted contradicts certain claims regarding CPU clock/framerate.

But my point is, if you tell the game the CPU clock speed, it won't affect the framerate. It affects it in that video because the game still thinks it is running at normal CPU speed for GC, when it isn't. When told it isn't, it'll sync automatically to the correct clock speed. That's the whole point of vsync as I understand it. vsync will presumably only work when the software, in this case game, knows the CPU clock speed.

 

[WiiUBricker]

But my point is, if you tell the game the CPU clock speed, it won't affect the framerate.

Yes, but that's not the point here, we already know that. This little debate that started between tueidj and wiismodrome was about whether or not the CPU speed affects the framerate in general. The video I posted added a bit contradiction to the debate.

 

[SifJar]

But my point is, if you tell the game the CPU clock speed, it won't affect the framerate.

Yes, but that's not the point here, we already know that. This little debate that started between tueidj and wiismodrome was about whether or not the CPU speed affects the framerate in general. The video I posted added a bit contradiction to the debate.

Which it doesn't achieve. When the game is told the clock speed, there is no effect on the framerate. And seeing as Devolution does tell the game the clock speed, there is no effect on the framerate. So it's irrelevant if it does affect the clock speed in other circumstances the way I see it.

 

[Coto]

say, if we were to overclock GPU and CPU, but then vertical refresh/frame draw is hardcoded into game, wouldn't they run the same? I know waninkoko did run some GC games at wii clockspeed and they ran faster, but I think he "forced" those only? I know their team worked on MIOS so they kinda had that experience after all.

edit: I don't think devolution tells/forces the game frame rate, but rather it simply reads it from the main dol

 

[WiiUBricker]

But my point is, if you tell the game the CPU clock speed, it won't affect the framerate.

Yes, but that's not the point here, we already know that. This little debate that started between tueidj and wiismodrome was about whether or not the CPU speed affects the framerate in general. The video I posted added a bit contradiction to the debate.

Which it doesn't achieve. When the game is told the clock speed, there is no effect on the framerate. And seeing as Devolution does tell the game the clock speed, there is no effect on the framerate. So it's irrelevant if it does affect the clock speed in other circumstances the way I see it.

The debate isn't about Devolution. It's about the CPU/framerate relation in general. Even tueidj admitted that this is off-topic, so there is no need keep bringing Devolution up to this.

 

[wiismodrome]

But my point is, if you tell the game the CPU clock speed, it won't affect the framerate. It affects it in that video because the game still thinks it is running at normal CPU speed for GC, when it isn't. When told it isn't, it'll sync automatically to the correct clock speed. That's the whole point of vsync as I understand it. vsync will presumably only work when the software, in this case game, knows the CPU clock speed.

Ah, but Devolution has both the CPU and GPU running at 1.5 X the normal Gamecube clock rate. So, even if the program is compensating for the CPU and keeping the game running at normal speed, the faster GPU will still be able to render more frames per second due to the increase in rendering power. Thus, even if VSync is enabled, this should, at a minimum, serve to reduce/eliminate framerate hiccups in GC games which could not maintain smooth framerates at normal GC speed.

For example, a GC game which normally runs at 60 FPS on a Gamecube, but has intermittent drops to 30 FPS, should be able to maintain a smooth 60 FPS framerate running under Devolution on the Wii because of the faster GPU.

BTW, I don't mean to annoy anyone, but I do think that this is pertinent to the Devolution project. And if what I'm suggesting is correct, smoother framerates would be a nice side benefit. So, it isn't anything to be taken negatively.

 

[Coto]

Anyone who creates a game that ignores vsync should be banned from ever developing games again.

ready at dawn studios, god of war has screen tearing. (PSP at least) and some of theirs. On a side note ... But isn't ignoring VBlank VSync can physically damage the gpu?

 

[SifJar]

say, if we were to overclock GPU and CPU, but then vertical refresh/frame draw is hardcoded into game, wouldn't they run the same? I know waninkoko did run some GC games at wii clockspeed and they ran faster, but I think he "forced" those only? I know their team worked on MIOS so they kinda had that experience after all.

edit: I don't think devolution tells/forces the game frame rate, but rather it simply reads it from the main dol

It doesn't tell the game the frame rate, it tells the game the clock speed. tueidj said so himself.

Ah, but Devolution has both the CPU and GPU running at 1.5 X the normal Gamecube clock rate. So, even if the program is compensating for the CPU and keeping the game running at normal speed, the faster GPU will still be able to render more frames per second due to the increase in rendering power. Thus, even if VSync is enabled, this should, at a minimum, serve to reduce/eliminate framerate hiccups in GC games which could not maintain smooth framerates at normal GC speed.

For example, a GC game which normally runs at 60 FPS on a Gamecube, but has intermittent drops to 30 FPS, should be able to maintain a smooth 60 FPS framerate running under Devolution on the Wii because of the faster GPU.

BTW, I don't mean to annoy anyone, but I do think that this is pertinent to the Devolution project. And if what I'm suggesting is correct, smoother framerates would be a nice side benefit. So, it isn't anything to be taken negatively.

It may make it perform at the full frame rate if this didn't happen before, not sure. But the point is it won't exceed the frame rate it was originally made to play at.