Homebrew & High Seas “Sustainability” in a Future With A Switch 2 Mod Chip Exploit

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Obviously there are already plenty of threads and posts on here talking about how hard the Switch 2 is to hack. I’m personally operating under the assumption that a software exploit is practically impossible (would love to be proven wrong though!) and that if a potential exploit is found, it would be through a mod chip, even though it’s clear that that will also be very difficult.

What I’m worried about is, say that some people do manage to develop a mod chip, and that’s the only way the Switch 2 is able to be hacked and run CFW. Since that mod chip would likely need to be very complex, it will be both expensive and almost impossible for an ordinary person like me to install, requiring people like me to pay even more money to have someone install the mod chip for me or simply buying a Switch 2 that’s already chipped.

The point is: if that’s the future of Switch 2 hacking, I’m worried how big the homebrew community will be for the Switch 2 in that circumstance. Will it be large enough for useful home brews like say a JKSV-style save management app or a playtime tracker like NX Activity Log to be developed and updated for newer firmwares on it? And even more importantly, since I would never risk linking my legit Nintendo account with thousands of dollars worth of game purchases to it out of fear of losing access to those purchases, will the community be big enough for there to be ROM dumps for the systems library of games and updates and DOC, especially the more niche games?

I started hacking my systems with the 3DS and Switch, so I’m still relatively new to the whole scene, so I’m just worried about whether I should be patient and take a chance waiting several years or however long it will take for an exploit to be discovered and/or developed, or whether I should start buying all the games I want to play now legitimately because the chance of a widely-available exploit is so small that it’s just the safer option, even though it would cost a LOT of money? I know for a while the Xbox 360 was only able to be hacked through a mod chip, and from what I understand, that was/is a decently-sized hacking community. Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts and sorry for the long post.
 
People didn't like Team Xecuter in the Switch hacking scene, but, as far as I know, they put the efforts in R&D to create a modchip for the Switch. Of course, it was financially motivated. They're probably not around anymore, but I'm sure some other group somewhere are hard at work trying to find an exploit for a Switch 2 modchip. The potential for huge financial gains is too big to ignore. We'll see.
 
Obviously there are already plenty of threads and posts on here talking about how hard the Switch 2 is to hack. I’m personally operating under the assumption that a software exploit is practically impossible (would love to be proven wrong though!) and that if a potential exploit is found, it would be through a mod chip, even though it’s clear that that will also be very difficult.

What I’m worried about is, say that some people do manage to develop a mod chip, and that’s the only way the Switch 2 is able to be hacked and run CFW. Since that mod chip would likely need to be very complex, it will be both expensive and almost impossible for an ordinary person like me to install, requiring people like me to pay even more money to have someone install the mod chip for me or simply buying a Switch 2 that’s already chipped.

The point is: if that’s the future of Switch 2 hacking, I’m worried how big the homebrew community will be for the Switch 2 in that circumstance. Will it be large enough for useful home brews like say a JKSV-style save management app or a playtime tracker like NX Activity Log to be developed and updated for newer firmwares on it? And even more importantly, since I would never risk linking my legit Nintendo account with thousands of dollars worth of game purchases to it out of fear of losing access to those purchases, will the community be big enough for there to be ROM dumps for the systems library of games and updates and DOC, especially the more niche games?

I started hacking my systems with the 3DS and Switch, so I’m still relatively new to the whole scene, so I’m just worried about whether I should be patient and take a chance waiting several years or however long it will take for an exploit to be discovered and/or developed, or whether I should start buying all the games I want to play now legitimately because the chance of a widely-available exploit is so small that it’s just the safer option, even though it would cost a LOT of money? I know for a while the Xbox 360 was only able to be hacked through a mod chip, and from what I understand, that was/is a decently-sized hacking community. Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts and sorry for the long post.
What’s the point of this thread ? A modchip being required won’t afffevt the homebrew scene one bit

For years the ps3 needed a hard mod, and that had plenty of homebrew and cheats

Xbox 360 as well…

Wii for a minute also only had mod chips..the list goes on
 
Of course it'll get hacked sooner or later [my prediction is <3y] and have basically every game worth dumping get dumped. Modchips will get cheaper and there's a lot of pirates out there who want Nintendo games for free and are willing to pay $150 for a mod chip over thousands for games.
 
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People didn't like Team Xecuter in the Switch hacking scene, but, as far as I know, they put the efforts in R&D to create a modchip for the Switch. Of course, it was financially motivated. They're probably not around anymore, but I'm sure some other group somewhere are hard at work trying to find an exploit for a Switch 2 modchip. The potential for huge financial gains is too big to ignore. We'll see.
As far as I know three people left. Gary Bowser who we all know went to jail. He was just the marketer, not an engineer so he can be easily replaced. One guy a French national returned to France before he got arrested and under French law French citizens cannot be extradited. If I understand French law correctly, he can be prosecuted in France for his actions but if it actually happened it was not a highly publicised case like Gary Bowser's. Then there was a Chinese national and I don't know what exactly happened with him.

How many people are left and what are they doing now I don't know. Given that their modchips ceased being manufactured they might have disbanded. Maybe we will never hear of them again or maybe they're working on a comeback with a Switch 2 modchip.
Obviously there are already plenty of threads and posts on here talking about how hard the Switch 2 is to hack. I’m personally operating under the assumption that a software exploit is practically impossible (would love to be proven wrong though!) and that if a potential exploit is found, it would be through a mod chip, even though it’s clear that that will also be very difficult.

What I’m worried about is, say that some people do manage to develop a mod chip, and that’s the only way the Switch 2 is able to be hacked and run CFW. Since that mod chip would likely need to be very complex, it will be both expensive and almost impossible for an ordinary person like me to install, requiring people like me to pay even more money to have someone install the mod chip for me or simply buying a Switch 2 that’s already chipped.

The point is: if that’s the future of Switch 2 hacking, I’m worried how big the homebrew community will be for the Switch 2 in that circumstance. Will it be large enough for useful home brews like say a JKSV-style save management app or a playtime tracker like NX Activity Log to be developed and updated for newer firmwares on it? And even more importantly, since I would never risk linking my legit Nintendo account with thousands of dollars worth of game purchases to it out of fear of losing access to those purchases, will the community be big enough for there to be ROM dumps for the systems library of games and updates and DOC, especially the more niche games?

I started hacking my systems with the 3DS and Switch, so I’m still relatively new to the whole scene, so I’m just worried about whether I should be patient and take a chance waiting several years or however long it will take for an exploit to be discovered and/or developed, or whether I should start buying all the games I want to play now legitimately because the chance of a widely-available exploit is so small that it’s just the safer option, even though it would cost a LOT of money? I know for a while the Xbox 360 was only able to be hacked through a mod chip, and from what I understand, that was/is a decently-sized hacking community. Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts and sorry for the long post.
If you're placing your bets on a hardware modchip in the future then finding a pre-modded unit will be the most convenient option. If you really want to play the Switch 2 now then you can buy one and play it but if a modchip comes out in the future you'll need to find an installer.

If the Switch 2 does get hacked then you can expect a save manager and playtime tracker to be available and kept up to date. Good ROM sites come and go. You'll always be able to find the more popular games but some niche games will only be available for a short while. Download them before they're gone. Most of these will be available on the Steam Deck though.
 
Obviously there are already plenty of threads and posts on here talking about how hard the Switch 2 is to hack. I’m personally operating under the assumption that a software exploit is practically impossible (would love to be proven wrong though!) and that if a potential exploit is found, it would be through a mod chip, even though it’s clear that that will also be very difficult.

What I’m worried about is, say that some people do manage to develop a mod chip, and that’s the only way the Switch 2 is able to be hacked and run CFW. Since that mod chip would likely need to be very complex, it will be both expensive and almost impossible for an ordinary person like me to install, requiring people like me to pay even more money to have someone install the mod chip for me or simply buying a Switch 2 that’s already chipped.

The point is: if that’s the future of Switch 2 hacking, I’m worried how big the homebrew community will be for the Switch 2 in that circumstance. Will it be large enough for useful home brews like say a JKSV-style save management app or a playtime tracker like NX Activity Log to be developed and updated for newer firmwares on it? And even more importantly, since I would never risk linking my legit Nintendo account with thousands of dollars worth of game purchases to it out of fear of losing access to those purchases, will the community be big enough for there to be ROM dumps for the systems library of games and updates and DOC, especially the more niche games?

I started hacking my systems with the 3DS and Switch, so I’m still relatively new to the whole scene, so I’m just worried about whether I should be patient and take a chance waiting several years or however long it will take for an exploit to be discovered and/or developed, or whether I should start buying all the games I want to play now legitimately because the chance of a widely-available exploit is so small that it’s just the safer option, even though it would cost a LOT of money? I know for a while the Xbox 360 was only able to be hacked through a mod chip, and from what I understand, that was/is a decently-sized hacking community. Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts and sorry for the long post.
Don't you worry, save managers will be among the first things people release once it gets hacked.
We may not have had a proper homebrew scene since the Wii but one thing that is always guaranteed is utility apps like save managers and cheating tools. They're fairly easy to make, relatively speaking, and they're in high demand.
As far as I know three people left. Gary Bowser who we all know went to jail. He was just the marketer, not an engineer so he can be easily replaced. One guy a French national returned to France before he got arrested and under French law French citizens cannot be extradited. If I understand French law correctly, he can be prosecuted in France for his actions but if it actually happened it was not a highly publicised case like Gary Bowser's. Then there was a Chinese national and I don't know what exactly happened with him.

How many people are left and what are they doing now I don't know. Given that their modchips ceased being manufactured they might have disbanded. Maybe we will never hear of them again or maybe they're working on a comeback with a Switch 2 modchip.

If you're placing your bets on a hardware modchip in the future then finding a pre-modded unit will be the most convenient option. If you really want to play the Switch 2 now then you can buy one and play it but if a modchip comes out in the future you'll need to find an installer.

If the Switch 2 does get hacked then you can expect a save manager and playtime tracker to be available and kept up to date. Good ROM sites come and go. You'll always be able to find the more popular games but some niche games will only be available for a short while. Download them before they're gone. Most of these will be available on the Steam Deck though.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're behind the MIG Switch. It was already the end times for the SX modchips since cheap clones were readily available, so it was a convenient time for them to "disappear" and work on something new behind the scenes. Given it's quite certain that TX was also behind the Gateway 3DS, Sky3DS and Stargate 3DS, they would be the most likely culprits behind the MIG Switch.
As we know the real people behind the SX modchips are most likely all based in China so they don't have much to fear from Nintendo anyways. No reason they'd stop after Gary Bowser's arrest.
 
That was never an issue for

Wii, Xbox, Xbox 360, and ps3
Xbox 360 had JTAG, the others all had/have softmods. Wii modchips were never used to run homebrew anyways, they were largely for piracy only.

There is a sizable chunk of the homebrew community which refuse to support proprietary mods like SX by principle so it's likely the homebrew scene wouldn't really take off until there is a free or open source alternative.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if they're behind the MIG Switch. It was already the end times for the SX modchips since cheap clones were readily available, so it was a convenient time for them to "disappear" and work on something new behind the scenes. Given it's quite certain that TX was also behind the Gateway 3DS, Sky3DS and Stargate 3DS, they would be the most likely culprits behind the MIG Switch.
As we know the real people behind the SX modchips are most likely all based in China so they don't have much to fear from Nintendo anyways. No reason they'd stop after Gary Bowser's arrest.
From what I remember the genuine SX modchips were sold for almost no profit to discourage clones and clones only took off after Gary Bowser got arrested and the genuine SX modchips stopped being produced. The clones are actually more expensive than the genuine products in this case.

You might be right about Team Xecuter producing the MIG Switch. It sounds about right but there's just not enough information available for us to confirm it.

Turns out the Chinese national I mentioned before had an arrest warrant issued for him but never got arrested. The French national while a free man, his international bank accounts and crypto accounts are frozen and he can't exactly leave France with an international arrest warrant for him. Maybe after a decade the statute of limitations will expire and he will be free to go abroad again, I don't know enough about how the law works. I still don't know why Nintendo hasn't taken action against him through the French legal system.
 
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From what I remember the genuine SX modchips were sold for almost no profit to discourage clones and clones only took off after Gary Bowser got arrested and the genuine SX modchips stopped being produced. The clones are actually more expensive than the genuine products in this case.

You might be right about Team Xecuter producing the MIG Switch. It sounds about right but there's just not enough information available for us to confirm it.

Turns out the Chinese national I mentioned before had an arrest warrant issued for him but never got arrested. The French national while a free man, his international bank accounts and crypto accounts are frozen and he can't exactly leave France with an international arrest warrant for him. Maybe after a decade the statute of limitations will expire and he will be free to go abroad again, I don't know enough about how the law works. I still don't know why Nintendo hasn't taken action against him through the French legal system.
Ah yes, the original HWFLY clones were quite overpriced. It took a little bit for Picofly to appear.
Some think that HWFLY came from the people behind SX given how similar the clones are to the original (initially even running the same firmware)
Hard to say. Either way Picofly probably would have happened regardless, it might just have taken longer if there wasn't the additional motivation of not having access to reasonably priced chips.
 
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I've been saying this for a while. There's a reason nobody really looks at the Xbox One/S/X's at all. Originally for $20, you could get Developer Mode and install any homebrew you want. I did it. Now Developer Mode is free. I've got a bunch of emulators on there that work great, and I'm helping someone I know create a homebrew game using Unity.

I really wish Nintendo and Sony would figure this out. We'd quit exploiting their hardware and go hard at piracy and just have fun in homebrew. Might even create some game developers doing it this way.
 
I wouldn't worry. Back in the PSX days a mod chip was the norm. No one knew how to solder back then except actual geeks, and it wasn't cheap. Buying a CD burner wasn't even cheap back then.
 
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I wouldn't worry. Back in the PSX days a mod chip was the norm. No one knew how to solder back then except actual geeks, and it wasn't cheap. Buying a CD burner wasn't even cheap back then.
Mod chips from the PS1/PSX days became relatively affordable after the Old Crow was developed, which was based off reverse engineering the original mod chip from sellers in Hong Kong. After that the price went down even more, and the source code was readily available.

After all, first ones required about 4/5 wires. Nobody unlike geeks can actually solder them in properly. Early installs from back in the day when people lacked the confidence did them very shoddy, unlike now where irons became much cheaper and affordable.

Wii modchips were never used to run homebrew anyways, they were largely for piracy only.
You're right, largely for piracy than just homebrew. The early Wii modchips required you to have a DMS up to the D2B motherboard. The way those chips worked is by putting the drive controller into a factory debug mode, then by patching the firmware in RAM to bypass the disc checks. Whereas on the later drives, Nintendo began by cutting pins on the D2B chipsets or coating the pins in epoxy so it wasn't easy to install the chips—but those weren't all that difficult to defeat, but they required extra steps, such as using a dremel tool to access where the pins were cut.

Later, modchip makers began offering 'drivechips' that bridged the gap between the motherboard and the DVD drive with an FPGA, allowing them to seamlessly patch I/O commands as they were sent on the fly. Such chips like the SunKey, WiiKey Fusion, and DriveKey does just about that. However, you would much rather nowadays softmod your console with Bluebomb or Letterbomb that doesn't require handling a soldering iron—totally worth it as optical media doesn't last long, and most of the chips that I had explained are very difficult to track down.

Ah yes, the original HWFLY clones were quite overpriced. It took a little bit for Picofly to appear.
Some think that HWFLY came from the people behind SX given how similar the clones are to the original (initially even running the same firmware)
Hard to say. Either way Picofly probably would have happened regardless, it might just have taken longer if there wasn't the additional motivation of not having access to reasonably priced chips.
I do remember when those started to appear. There was a post on some Chinese forum showcasing clones of the SX modchips which later came out as HWFLY, it took a little while before those chips started to become cheaper as the price was nearly $60 for one alone. Whether chips for the Switch 2 will ever come out, it's possible that it'll be either next year or a few more until the system is finally opened up depending on the difficulty, but I can guarantee anyone that they've beefed up the hardware significantly to prevent stuff like the Tegra exploit from happening again.
 
Last edited by SylverReZ,
What’s the point of this thread ? A modchip being required won’t afffevt the homebrew scene one bit

For years the ps3 needed a hard mod, and that had plenty of homebrew and cheats

Xbox 360 as well…

Wii for a minute also only had mod chips..the list goes on
Xbxo 360 I know of because I did a lot of soldering for other people. PS3? First exploit was a software exploit you put on a usb stick. The only reason you ever had to solder was to downgrade the console, which AFAIK was only possible under very specific circumstances.
 
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First exploit was a software exploit you put on a usb stick. The only reason you ever had to solder was to downgrade the console, which AFAIK was only possible under very specific circumstances.
PSJailbreak was the one. And prices were very steep at launch (roughly $100), to the point that word spread out on forums about how it worked, and then the clones had gotten more popular afterwards. Open-source alternatives were eventually released and ported to other devices like an iPhone or TI-84 calculator (you thought DOOM could run on just about anything). That was, until the exploit eventually got patched in 3.55.

The dongle basically emulated a factory service dongle that Sony used for repairing dead consoles to allow unsigned code to run. Apparently, they're still being used in repair stores in parts of Asia for fixing consoles, which I thought was really cool.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're behind the MIG Switch. It was already the end times for the SX modchips since cheap clones were readily available, so it was a convenient time for them to "disappear" and work on something new behind the scenes. Given it's quite certain that TX was also behind the Gateway 3DS, Sky3DS and Stargate 3DS, they would be the most likely culprits behind the MIG Switch.
As we know the real people behind the SX modchips are most likely all based in China so they don't have much to fear from Nintendo anyways. No reason they'd stop after Gary Bowser's arrest.
I wouldn't be surprised either if they went under another name just to push out a Switch 2 modchip. It's always a game of cat-and-mouse, and I don't think they're done yet.
 
Last edited by SylverReZ,
PSJailbreak was the one. And prices were very steep at launch (roughly $100), to the point that word spread out on forums about how it worked, and then the clones had gotten more popular afterwards. Open-source alternatives were eventually released and ported to other devices like an iPhone or TI-84 calculator (you thought DOOM could run on just about anything). That was, until the exploit eventually got patched in 3.55.
From what I remember, Sony took urgent legal action which stopped the original from getting released but then the market got flooded with clones and from there the shit hit the fan for Sony.
 
The point is: if that’s the future of Switch 2 hacking, I’m worried how big the homebrew community will be for the Switch 2 in that circumstance. Will it be large enough for useful home brews like say a JKSV-style save management app or a playtime tracker like NX Activity Log to be developed and updated for newer firmwares on it? And even more importantly, since I would never risk linking my legit Nintendo account with thousands of dollars worth of game purchases to it out of fear of losing access to those purchases, will the community be big enough for there to be ROM dumps for the systems library of games and updates and DOC, especially the more niche games?
Piracy will always find a way. As far as homebrew, IMHO the only useful piece aside from some cheat code thing, would be a LAN tunneling service of sorts since literally no one would go online and big N will probably dish out bans like Waffle House hashbrowns after some hack comes out. It'll also be MUCH, much more moot point to extend its base capabilities given $450 price with tons of open alternatives already on the market.

IMHO brew for cheapy consoles of days past served a solid purpose to make them more useful for people whose tech pinnacle was only that console, but these days even a basic phone is more of a multimedia computer than Swatch 2 will ever be.
 
From what I remember, Sony took urgent legal action which stopped the original from getting released but then the market got flooded with clones and from there the shit hit the fan for Sony.
They did file an injunction to take them off, much quicker before it even went out further to consumers. Reviewers got ahold of one, just not many people even bought one. The same thing happened with the Messiah on the PS2 a few months after its release, but at least that one had more success.

Piracy will always find a way. As far as homebrew, IMHO the only useful piece aside from some cheat code thing, would be a LAN tunneling service of sorts since literally no one would go online and big N will probably dish out bans like Waffle House hashbrowns after some hack comes out. It'll also be MUCH, much more moot point to extend its base capabilities given $450 price with tons of open alternatives already on the market.

That's true. The lesson here, is that, piracy isn't going to go away. And even if it was banned, people will find loopholes to get around it via VPNs or through means of tunneling. We have P2P networks, file sharing sites like Archive, and other ways to push out releases that once on the internet can never be erased forever, as it will always remain there permanently.

On the Switch, Atmosphere already has built-in telemetry blocking that prevents you from going online and instantly banning your console from using pirated ROMs. It is effective enough to avoid accidental connections to Nintendo's servers and does not require having to manually turn ON/OFF your internet connection to do so.
 
Last edited by SylverReZ,
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