North Korea and Trump

[Viri]

Well, at least Trump said he'd be open to negotiations (but I have a feeling NK wouldn't be too open to the idea)

The US and South Korea have been trying for a long ass time to negotiate. South Korea used to open joint factories with NK to show good will and perhaps bring the two countries closer. SK got cheap labor, NKs got jobs and income. it's currently closed, I think you know why.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaesong_Industrial_Region

 

[Abu_Senpai]

Oooooooooooooh this is getting more interesting.

"BEIJING (Reuters) - If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005

And ""So let's be very clear about that. If there is an attack on the United States by North Korea, then the ANZUS treaty will be invoked and Australia will come to the aid of the United States

source:http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-the-us-malcolm-turnbull-20170810-gxty5f.html

 

[Viri]

Nothing will happen. We get a huge North Korea scare at least once a year. I remember a few years ago, South Korea was blasting kpop into North Korea, because NK launched a missile or w/e. NK was pissed about the kpop, and gave SK an ultimatum to shut the music off. Everything was hunky dory at the end.

 

[Dominator211]

I hope t he'll and high heaven nothing happens I don't want anyone to did that doesn't dense ver to

 

[rileysrjay]

Oooooooooooooh this is getting more interesting.

"BEIJING (Reuters) - If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005

And ""So let's be very clear about that. If there is an attack on the United States by North Korea, then the ANZUS treaty will be invoked and Australia will come to the aid of the United States

source:http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-the-us-malcolm-turnbull-20170810-gxty5f.html

Darn, and I just ran out of popcorn! Better go make some more!

 

[Futurdreamz]

As soon as NK launched their missile test that proved they had a range, I knew that the very moment that they had a nuke missile ready they would fire it at the USA, no dithering with politics at all.


The question is, how many will they send? if they only send one it'll be immediately shot down. If they send more they have a chance of hitting something.

 

[lordkaos]

Nothing will happen. We get a huge North Korea scare at least once a year. I remember a few years ago, South Korea was blasting kpop into North Korea, because NK launched a missile or w/e. NK was pissed about the kpop, and gave SK an ultimatum to shut the music off. Everything was hunky dory at the end.

why don't they like k-pop?, lol

 

[Xzi]

Many people are saying it would have been better if Clinton would have won even thought lots of people were saying that she would probably be more into playing war than Trump -.-

Yeah, bullshit. Trump never appointed a diplomat to Korea, he never even tried. Clinton would've done that at the very least.

A confrontation with N Korea was inevitable, but Trump is the worst possible person to have as a leader while this is happening. It's like a shitstorm on top of a dumpster fire.

 

[Youkai]

Well I for one still doubt that Negotiations would have done any good at all.
Beeing Diplomatic with Kim only gives hime more and more time to build stronger military forces, and even if you cut more and more resources from him trough sanctioning him he and his military would still get enough supplys ! only the poor people will suffer and die trough these actions so you could say we are doing some kind of indirect mass murder like this.

So why is it better to indirectly kill thousands of poeple than to just try to eliminate Kim with a few aimed strikes at all his residences and some crucial military places ?

Sure there is a Chance he might survive and attack back or even attack back if he won't survive but I am not sure if the confusion within the North would not be enough to make them not strike back.
The Propaganda tells them that they are the greatest nation and that noone would ever dare to attack them so this could actually help if someone would really attack (maybe).

I am neither American nor do I like Trump (even though I have no problem with him yet) but I still think that it would best if America would finaly do something.
China won't Russia won't the South would be stupid to do someting and Japan and the other Asian countrys plainly can't do anything yet.
Waiting for Kim to get stronger is definietly not the best option even though most people seem to think that it is.

 

[Xzi]

So why is it better to indirectly kill thousands of poeple than to just try to eliminate Kim with a few aimed strikes at all his residences and some crucial military places ?

I'm all for pinpoint operations like the one that took out Bin Laden, but those aren't even really on the table with Trump. He basically went straight to threatening with nukes, just like Kim is doing.

 

[Taleweaver]

(note in advance: haven't read the entire thread. Just the first page and the last (ninth) one)

Okay...I'm probably not going to make myself popular here, but when I heard of that "I'm going to reign fire an fury" announcement, I though "good". More to the point, I thought "I'll even pay for his plane over there".

Look...this whole mess has gone long enough. Yes, I get it: you all (Trump-voters, that is) hate politicians so you vote for someone who stirs things up. I get it. this whole "I wanna see the whole world burn" thing. In that aspect, I'm sure Trump doesn't disappoint: he sure gives those lawyers, judges, politicians and so on a whole bunch of hard topics to swallow. yes, he's busy fucking up the whole government structure your ancestors worked toward, but either said structure is strong enough to withstand Trump's fucking (in which case you gotta applaud for it being quality) or it was never worth defending in the first place.
But this...this isn't about government. These are war games, and like it or not, but Donald Trump and Kim Jong-Un are pretty much alike in character (and hairdo, though that's probably coincidence): they just want more power than their country has to offer. Neither of them has the character to back down and neither can be stopped with politics for the very reason that they're too bloody stupid to see that a nuclear war won't help their affairs.

Let's both be realistic here: Americans...haven't you learned anything from your past fuck-up war attempts? Bush's attack on Iraq dragged on so long that it cost more than the oil you stole there was worth, and ended up with IS terrorizing the area. North Korea doesn't even have oil to begin with, so all you have in defense is "we just followed the clown we voted in office for lulz". Do you really want that to be on your tombstone?
No, I don't think that Korea will kill lots of Americans. Not in direct conflict. He got pretty fancy weaponry, but you guys got more military muscle than the rest of the top five military states combined (or was it the rest of the top ten?). You'll shoot any missile out of the air and do another pyrrhic victory, but by the time the real cost of the war comes into view, Trump won't be in office anymore (kind of like how Bush jr was never trialed for attacking an innocent nation).

The thing about North Korea is that we know jack shit about North korea. They don't like South Korea and have a leader that wants his country to become a nuclear power. That's pretty much it. Are the citizens happy or oppressed? I don't fucking know. Is Kim loved or feared? Depends on the source. What's the relationship between the US and Korea? No freaking idea.

Fuck...the whole reason I care about this stuff is just because the fallout of this whole "shit gone wrong" may fall upon the shoulders of Europe again (the Iraqi war caused the destabilization of the region. This caused the mass emigration to Europe. I'd prefer it NOT to have more of this shit because you guys can't properly clean up after you're done playing wargames).

That's why I want Trump to keep his promise and go to Korea. Let him do his fire reigning in Korea. I don't know if he's only going in against Jong-Un himself in a face-to-face fight to the death, or against the entire populae (again: I have no idea how popular the guy is in his country), but...just be done with it. I just don't want him to drag the USA along with him. The country's pretty great, despite what Donald is busy representing of it. Please keep it that way.

Many people are saying it would have been better if Clinton would have won even thought lots of people were saying that she would probably be more into playing war than Trump -.-

I don't like to generalize, but here I can't avoid it: those latter bunch of "lots of people" are idiots. Clinton (or pretty much anyone with an ounce of diplomatic insight) would never launch these kinds of tweets that directly offends whole nations for pretty much no reason whatsoever.

 

[WeedZ]

(note in advance: haven't read the entire thread. Just the first page and the last (ninth) one)

Okay...I'm probably not going to make myself popular here, but when I heard of that "I'm going to reign fire an fury" announcement, I though "good". More to the point, I thought "I'll even pay for his plane over there".

Look...this whole mess has gone long enough. Yes, I get it: you all (Trump-voters, that is) hate politicians so you vote for someone who stirs things up. I get it. this whole "I wanna see the whole world burn" thing. In that aspect, I'm sure Trump doesn't disappoint: he sure gives those lawyers, judges, politicians and so on a whole bunch of hard topics to swallow. yes, he's busy fucking up the whole government structure your ancestors worked toward, but either said structure is strong enough to withstand Trump's fucking (in which case you gotta applaud for it being quality) or it was never worth defending in the first place.
But this...this isn't about government. These are war games, and like it or not, but Donald Trump and Kim Jong-Un are pretty much alike in character (and hairdo, though that's probably coincidence): they just want more power than their country has to offer. Neither of them has the character to back down and neither can be stopped with politics for the very reason that they're too bloody stupid to see that a nuclear war won't help their affairs.

Let's both be realistic here: Americans...haven't you learned anything from your past fuck-up war attempts? Bush's attack on Iraq dragged on so long that it cost more than the oil you stole there was worth, and ended up with IS terrorizing the area. North Korea doesn't even have oil to begin with, so all you have in defense is "we just followed the clown we voted in office for lulz". Do you really want that to be on your tombstone?
No, I don't think that Korea will kill lots of Americans. Not in direct conflict. He got pretty fancy weaponry, but you guys got more military muscle than the rest of the top five military states combined (or was it the rest of the top ten?). You'll shoot any missile out of the air and do another pyrrhic victory, but by the time the real cost of the war comes into view, Trump won't be in office anymore (kind of like how Bush jr was never trialed for attacking an innocent nation).

The thing about North Korea is that we know jack shit about North korea. They don't like South Korea and have a leader that wants his country to become a nuclear power. That's pretty much it. Are the citizens happy or oppressed? I don't fucking know. Is Kim loved or feared? Depends on the source. What's the relationship between the US and Korea? No freaking idea.

Fuck...the whole reason I care about this stuff is just because the fallout of this whole "shit gone wrong" may fall upon the shoulders of Europe again (the Iraqi war caused the destabilization of the region. This caused the mass emigration to Europe. I'd prefer it NOT to have more of this shit because you guys can't properly clean up after you're done playing wargames).

That's why I want Trump to keep his promise and go to Korea. Let him do his fire reigning in Korea. I don't know if he's only going in against Jong-Un himself in a face-to-face fight to the death, or against the entire populae (again: I have no idea how popular the guy is in his country), but...just be done with it. I just don't want him to drag the USA along with him. The country's pretty great, despite what Donald is busy representing of it. Please keep it that way.





I don't like to generalize, but here I can't avoid it: those latter bunch of "lots of people" are idiots. Clinton (or pretty much anyone with an ounce of diplomatic insight) would never launch these kinds of tweets that directly offends whole nations for pretty much no reason whatsoever.

In our defence, the majority of us voted for Obama because of his promises for a national Healthcare system and pulling troops from the middle east. We see how that went. The same voted for trump, not because hes silly, but because hes not a career politician and promised to clean corruption from various branches and agencies. We aren't in control over what our government does. They police us as much as they do other countries. We can vote every term, but it doesn't do any good when all candidates are obligated to some oil or drug company.

Btw, your country is still in Iraq and Syria with us, so I'd be careful with those stones.

 

[Taleweaver]

In our defence, the majority of us voted for Obama because of his promises for a national Healthcare system and pulling troops from the middle east. We see how that went.

The way I see it, your healthcare system is so good that even with an entire party in charge that hates it, they can't find the leverage to remove it. I would say that maybe it's not as bad as republicans make it out to be (because hey...why would they like anything that democrats achieved? They are the ENEMY).
The pulling troops isn't so much the issue as what you leave behind. It's like going into a kindergarden, shooting the teacher because you suspect she has WMD's and then act surprised if the children start crying and fighting amongst themselves as soon as you leave (only on bigger scale, of course).

The same voted for trump, not because hes silly, but because hes not a career politician and promised to clean corruption from various branches and agencies.

Sorry, but I find it creepy how "because he's not a career politician" is somehow considered a benefit. You wouldn't vote for your local buss driver "because he doesn't have a driver's licence", would you? You don't go to a school where they don't hire "career teachers", right? But somehow, a lot of American's think it's okay to have someone have access to nuclear weapons who doesn't have experience in diplomacy. How does THAT make sense?

It's off-topic, but did Trump really promised that? (I guess Belgian reporters were more happy to report the sensational stuff like that wall that no one is going to pay, or that climate change treaty he doesn't believe in).
Oh, wait...that's that "drain the swamp" thing, right? Yeah...I suppose it's a good thing that this "the mooch" guy only lasted ten days?

Btw, your country is still in Iraq and Syria with us, so I'd be careful with those stones.

So? I was against the Iraqi war from the very start, and it's us who get all the refugees. It's called "cleaning up the mess". The best way to do it is still to prevent mess from happening in the first place.

 

[WeedZ]

The way I see it, your healthcare system is so good that even with an entire party in charge that hates it, they can't find the leverage to remove it. I would say that maybe it's not as bad as republicans make it out to be (because hey...why would they like anything that democrats achieved? They are the ENEMY).
The pulling troops isn't so much the issue as what you leave behind. It's like going into a kindergarden, shooting the teacher because you suspect she has WMD's and then act surprised if the children start crying and fighting amongst themselves as soon as you leave (only on bigger scale, of course).

Our Healthcare is great if you're poor or homeless. If you meet the minimum income requirements you're responsible for your own health insurance, which unless you make really good money, is unrealistically expensive. If you don't have insurance you have to pay thousands out of pocket for a doctor visit, then you have to pay a fine at the end of the year for not carrying insurance because you are legally obligated to now. I have friends that have quit their jobs to fall under the bracket for government assistance just so they could get a life saving procedure done.

The countries we occupy have been at war with each other for the better part of a hundred years, there's nothing new there. Pulling out our troops just leaves them the way we found them. You have to remember as well, things were pretty peaceful in terms of our station there until they kamikazeed our trade center. The entire first world is involved with them. It not our sole responsibility to fix their infrastructure.

Sorry, but I find it creepy how "because he's not a career politician" is somehow considered a benefit. You wouldn't vote for your local buss driver "because he doesn't have a driver's licence", would you? You don't go to a school where they don't hire "career teachers", right? But somehow, a lot of American's think it's okay to have someone have access to nuclear weapons who doesn't have experience in diplomacy. How does THAT make sense?

It's off-topic, but did Trump really promised that? (I guess Belgian reporters were more happy to report the sensational stuff like that wall that no one is going to pay, or that climate change treaty he doesn't believe in).
Oh, wait...that's that "drain the swamp" thing, right? Yeah...I suppose it's a good thing that this "the mooch" guy only lasted ten days?

That's the point though. The American people are desperate for a change. The idea is to vote for the one that you believe hasn't been bought by corporations. I'm not a trump supporter myself, but I see why he was elected. The wall thing.. people don't understand that labor is outsourced by businesses, they just know that the workforce is at a low. So of course he won them over with the whole immigrant thing. Which, I might add, is a huge issue in a lot of European countries right now as well.

He swore to internal investigations throughout his running, and claimed to stop corruption.

So? I was against the Iraqi war from the very start, and it's us who get all the refugees. It's called "cleaning up the mess". The best way to do it is still to prevent mess from happening in the first place.

That's my point, your country's government acted against your personal wishes. You make your arguments as if we can do anything about what our country does. A declaration of war is a congress vote, not a citizen one.

What your governments can do, is stop taking refugees. Or if they're so concerned about "cleaning up the mess" they can dominate those countries and force reform. Why is it our responsibility? Or, if you want to "prevent it" you could try and stop the US. good luck with that.

 

[lordkaos]

Our Healthcare is great if you're poor or homeless. If you meet the minimum income requirements you're responsible for your own health insurance, which unless you make really good money, is unrealistically expensive. If you don't have insurance you have to pay thousands out of pocket for a doctor visit, then you have to pay a fine at the end of the year for not carrying insurance because you are legally obligated to now. I have friends that have quit their jobs to fall under the bracket for government assistance just so they could get a life saving procedure done.

and that's the problem, how come a doctor's visit could cost so much?, all health related costs are inflated if you compare them to other parts of the world. maybe they could control drug prices a little?, the other problem is that the insurers are all private companies that need to have considerable profit in order to stay in business, if gov want to drive costs they could create public institutions, insurers, hospitals that don't need to have a really high profit margin, yes, it would be another gov expense and maybe they wouldn't give better care than private insurance companies but at least you won't die or go broke.

 

[the_randomizer]

Oooooooooooooh this is getting more interesting.

"BEIJING (Reuters) - If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-china-media-idUSKBN1AR005

And ""So let's be very clear about that. If there is an attack on the United States by North Korea, then the ANZUS treaty will be invoked and Australia will come to the aid of the United States

source:http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-the-us-malcolm-turnbull-20170810-gxty5f.html

I wouldn't trust a state-run newspaper for a communist (or, formerly communist) nation like China.

 

[WeedZ]

and that's the problem, how come a doctor's visit could cost so much?, all health related costs are inflated if you compare them to other parts of the world.

that's just the nature of capitalism. They provide a service that is required so they make it insanely expensive. On the plus side though, that money provides for better equipment and better trained doctors. We are among the highest rated doctors in the world. It's government Healthcare that needs reform.

 

[the_randomizer]

that's just the nature of capitalism. They provide a service that is required so they make it insanely expensive. On the plus side though, that money provides for better equipment and better trained doctors. We are among the highest rated doctors in the world. It's government Healthcare that needs reform.

Obamacare is a joke in how it's executed. I'm currently underemployed, finding further employment is a nightmare and having that stupid penalty to punish those who can't afford the basic care is a dick move on the government's part. If that stupid fee could be done away with, Obamacare would be so much better.

Yeah, Obamacare sure is good for those are who financially destitute, alright.

 

[WeedZ]

Obamacare is a joke in how it's executed. I'm currently underemployed, finding further employment is a nightmare and having that stupid penalty to punish those who can't afford the basic care is a dick move on the government's part. If that stupid fee could be done away with, Obamacare would be so much better.

Insurance companies have started this shit where you can buy a policy where they don't contribute anything. But you can claim to have carried insurance for the year. This isn't much less expensive as their high deductible rate polices. I've just lied every year and said I had coverage. They haven't come after me or asked for documentation yet.

 

[the_randomizer]

Insurance companies have started this shit where you can buy a policy where they don't contribute anything. But you can claim to have carried insurance for the year. This isn't much less expensive as their high deductible rate polices. I've just lied every year and said I had coverage. They haven't come after me or asked for documentation yet.

I'm not going to take that risk, to be honest, I just hope whoever decided to have that fee gets karma, and karma as we all know, is a bitch. Penalizing people who can't afford insurance as a motivation is not motivation, it only unmotivates people from wanting to get it. Universal healthcare is only good in practice, for a country with a big of an infrastructure as the US, it's a bloody mess and poorly executed. There has to be a better way to go about it.