North Korea and Trump

[TotalInsanity4]

You guys are missing a few important details:

a) North Korea has nuclear weaponry;
b) North Korea is backed by Russia and been backed until very recently by China. North Korea protcts Russia's pipelines and China wants to avoid a refugee crisis.

Directly hitting North Korea would mean risking nuclear warfare, and by the nature of the regime, having one major city hit with a nuclear missile. This is why all US presidents so far have been avoiding direct cronfrontation. The plan has been letting the regime implode. North koreans who live near the border are mostly aware of the nature of the regime and inner citizens are starting to get aware. The only thing that has been stopping revolution is the extreme poverty.

Also, Kim seems to be a figurehead. You can kill him, but the generals beneath him are the ones who I believe hold true power.

Not to mention firing at North Korea not only puts us (the US) at risk, but also more directly Japan, Guam, South Korea, etc

 

[the_randomizer]

Not to mention firing at North Korea not only puts us (the US) at risk, but also more directly Japan, Guam, South Korea, etc

What are we supposed to do, then? To me, it sounds like most people should just let him do his own thing and accumulate power, no? Or just let their government collapse by cutting all their outside funding?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

What are we supposed to do, then? To me, it sounds like most people should just let him do his own thing and accumulate power, no?

I mean there's diplomacy. There's a reason we have ambassadors. We obviously can't negotiate directly with Un, but if we can make the stakes clear to Russia (which won't happen because Trumps in their pocket) and China (which won't happen because Trump very publicly despises them), then North Korea's support system would effectively be pulled. Making threats to nuke them is the LAST thing we want to do if we don't want to start another Cold War

 

[the_randomizer]

I mean there's diplomacy. There's a reason we have ambassadors. We obviously can't negotiate directly with Un, but if we can make the stakes clear to Russia (which won't happen because Trumps in their pocket) and China (which won't happen because Trump very publicly despises them), then North Korea's support system would effectively be pulled. Making threats to nuke them is the LAST thing we want to do if we don't want to start another Cold War

So we're all royally fucked then? There's no hope? Nothing we can do to stop a war? Well, great, just effing great

 

[sarkwalvein]

Then what the hell do we do? Let him get what away with whatever he wants like a spoiled tubby brat? How is that a smart move? I hope that government just collapses horrifically.

I think he already told you in that same post "what the hell to do", according to previous politics in this topic, that if he named probably he agree with.
To spell it out: sabotage the regime as hard as possible, incite a revolution and try to induce the internal collapse of the regime, do a lot of propaganda, infiltrate people, apply strong sanctions to weaken the regime further, and in the end fight and win the war in the commercial/political ground.
That seemed like a good plan, but it doesn't look viable after the escalation.
I suppose now there will be blood, the blood of the allies, probably South Korea and Japan.
Perhaps a direct confrontation with a high loss of life is unavoidable. (I don't think so TBH)

 

[the_randomizer]

I think he already told you in that same post "what the hell to do", according to previous politics in this topic, that if he named probably he agree with.
To spell it out: sabotage the regime as hard as possible, incite a revolution and try to induce the internal collapse of the regime, do a lot of propaganda, infiltrate people, apply strong sanctions to weaken the regime further, and in the end fight and win the war in the commercial/political ground.
That seemed like a good plan, but it doesn't look viable after the escalation.
I suppose now there will be blood, the blood of the allies, probably South Korea and Japan.
Perhaps a direct confrontation with a high loss of life is unavoidable. (I don't think so TBH)

ti;dr - we're all boned.

 

[dpad_5678]

Lol you filthy nationalist fucks think the US is so great and powerful, and we should bomb any other country who insults us just to show how "powerful" we are. Doesn't work like that.

 

[sarkwalvein]

ti;dr - we're all boned.

Perhaps, I hope not.
I mean, I really believe the NK regime needs to be brought down for the better, but I hope it can be done without too much loss of life.
TBH, and maintaining the balance of power in the region (so happy China, happy Russia), I think the best would have been if China was able to replace fat Kim with another more obedient puppet.
But the puppet that China wanted to use was killed by his beautiful fatty brother not so long ago, so things get complicated.

 

[pustal]

What are we supposed to do, then? To me, it sounds like most people should just let him do his own thing and accumulate power, no? Or just let their government collapse by cutting all their outside funding?

Yes. Their main exportation is coal. Coal exports were mainly to China who is switching to renewable energy. For a while they bought coal only as an excuse but are now cutting that off too. So, this is why the regime is sounding so desperate, it is imploding.

On the other hand, diplomatic actions have had good results in the past, but the switching of US administrations end up by messing it up.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

So we're all royally fucked then? There's no hope? Nothing we can do to stop a war? Well, great, just effing great

Not to be a Debby Downer, but uh... Yeah

Unless we get Trump out of office or can somehow get him to start acting diplomatically as opposed to reactionary, there will likely be a second Cold War within our lifetimes

 

[osaka35]

Then what the hell do we do? Let him get what away with whatever he wants like a spoiled tubby brat? How is that a smart move? I hope that government just collapses horrifically.

What can we do that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of civilian casualties?

 

[the_randomizer]

What can we do that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of civilian casualties?

Cutting off all their coal and letting their regime collapse? How glorious it would be to see that fat turd fall to his knees.

 

[WiiUBricker]

What can we do that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of civilian casualties?

Mugen Tsukuyomi, maybe

 

[pustal]

What can we do that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of civilian casualties?

Make sure that at least China is on board and reestablish programs like 'Nukes for Food' and "food for international supervision".

 

[Hanafuda]

I mean there's diplomacy.

Not with North Korea there's not. Bill Clinton tried with the nuclear reactor deal back in the 90's, to get North Korea to stop enriching uranium. They took money and heavy fuel oil from us and never even pretended to hold up their end. They'll make a deal, they just won't abide by it.

On the other hand, diplomatic actions have had good results in the past, but the switching of US administrations end up by messing it up.

Suspending uranium enrichment and missile testing temporarily just to get your enemy to hand you a bunch of free food, then starting it all up again, is not a "good result" from our end of that bargain.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Not with North Korea there's not. Bill Clinton tried with the nuclear reactor deal back in the 90's, to get North Korea to stop enriching uranium. They took money and heavy fuel oil from us and never even pretended to hold up their end. They'll make a deal, they just won't abide by it.

Did you EVEN read my post

Edit: and the deal wasn't just to stop, it was to allow inspectors into their nuclear research facilities so we could monitor them. If the Bush administration had kept the deal instead of trashing it, we could have used our leverage to decrease supply from us when research made progress on their end as a way of discouraging progress

 

[Hanafuda]

Did you EVEN read my post

China (particularly) and Russia's (meh) unwillingness to cooperate meaningfully and for the longhaul wrt: North Korea has a very long track record and nothing to do with Trump.

 

[Abu_Senpai]

update: now lets see kims reply to this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40894529

 

[rileysrjay]

update: now lets see kims reply to this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40894529

Well, at least Trump said he'd be open to negotiations (but I have a feeling NK wouldn't be too open to the idea)

 

[gman666]

We've been trying that since before you were born, you imbecile. That has led us to the current situation.

First of all... Why you feel the need to name call is beyond me. If you have a disagreement, why not offer up something that actually adds to the conversation?