Kinda pointless discussion, but I'm feeling like it.
This is going to be a pretty long post, so from here on it gets kinda messy. I apologize for any spelling and grammar mistakes in advance. I just don't feel like reading through anything again right now. It took long enough to write.
FFXIII does NOT have story as a focus. combat is the focus of that game.
Yeah, but why do you think it is combat-focused? Because the maps are linear. And why are the maps linear? Well, according to Square Enix, because they wanted the focus to be on the story instead of exploration. Of course, just because they said it doesn't mean it has to be true, but I kinda get their point. After all what keeps you from advancing in the stories of RPGs usually IS exploring and doing sidequests. And if you think about it... battles in FFXIII can easily be avoided, except for boss fights. So while the battles DO feel annoying and dragging, the game DOES essentially focus on the story.
as i said, the jrpg is known for its stories. why is FFVI one of the greats? it's not the open world. it's kefka, the opera scene, the story. why is FFIV a great? the story of redemption and sacrifice for the greater good. FFVII? sephiroth, the story twists. never combat, never mechanics.
You're confusing two things here. "Having a good, intense and deep story" and "being story-focused" are not the same things. The examples you listed here fall under the first category. All three games (well at least FFVI and FFVII, I never played FFIV too much) have a great and deep story, but they als have just as deep and strategical gameplay and a world that opens up towars the end. It's the balance between story and gameplay that actually makes these games good. After all, if it wasn't for the gameplay you would be watching a movie and not playing a game. Games from the second category are different, though. They just don't have this balance, instead they put some more weight on the "story" side. And when you finally get to play the game you'll still be stuck inside the bounds of the story. You rarely ever get to do something if it doesn't have any relevance to the story. That's the main difference between the two categories. I mean go and play Xenoblade Chronicles and then play The Last Story afterwads. You'll instantly understand the difference I'm talking about. They both have a great story and they both motivate you to advance in it, yet they both feel sooo different.
And since you already mentioned Final Fantasy VI, it actually supports my opinion: I just completed Final Fantasy VI today (for the first time, actually, since the SNES version was only released on VC here in Europe) and I was actually quite annoyed by the game. The combat system just needed some fine tuning and the random encounter rate was way too high and made for a really bad pacing. Although the story was great and I was really interested in it I was about to quit the game right after the second half started. However, in a Final Fantasy Wiki I read that the game opens up once you find the Falcon and also that you could finally find an item to prevent random encounters. That's why I decided to keep playing. And yeah, I enjoyed the second half a lot more than the first half. But then again I'd like to emphasize that "being story-focused" and "having a great story" are two different things. Final Fantasy VI sure has a great story, but I don't consider it story-focused. At least not with my understanding of the term.
why is FFX generally reviled, even though it has the best turn-based combat
And another example that actually supports my opinion. Final Fantasy X is my favourite Final Fantasy BECAUSE it has a great combat system... or great gameplay in general, because the sphere grid is also a neat invention. Additionally to that, Final Fantasy X is actually more story-focused than any of your previous examples from the series. For the first 30 or 40 hours it actually feels like an interactive movie and it doesn't really open up until close to the end. That's when the game gets really great, though. Well, anyways, I have to admit that I actually like FFX's story. But then again that doesn't say much. I also kinda liked the story of FFXIII, but I hated the game. Another proof that a story itself doesn't make a game.
the jrpg is typically narrative-driven. you keep talking about the open world and freedom that they never really gave you in the same way that a western rpg does. that's changing, xenoblade chronicles is a great example of a fusion between the japanese and western rpg, but that is still the exception by far. in your typical jrpg, no village is ever just there you to stumble upon. that's not freedom or exploration the way you have it in skyrim.
I don't fully agree with that, either. The only difference I see between Xenoblade Chronicles and "classic" J-RPGs is that Xenoblade Chronicles opens up right from the beginning, whereas classic J-RPGs usually don't open up until close to the end. And isn't Xenoblade Chronicles also the best proof that J-RPGs can be great even without being too story-focused? I remember how when I first got the game I spent hours just exploring the area around Colony 9. Do you think I even knew what the story was about back then? And even then, now that I've completed the game, I can still look back at it and say "Yeah, that game sure had a great storyline". This proves that a game can tell a great story even without forcing it into you all the time (alias "without being story-focused").
But yeah, I think I made my point clear. Again I would like to point out that The Last Story is actually a great time, but it could use some more freedom and some less linearity.
why is Fallout 3 so great? or skyrim? or the first dragon age? the stories are good enough, but it's the combat and/or exploration that makes those games great. the freedom that a western rpg gives you.
I'm not really into W-RPGs. The reason for this I already stated in this post: What makes an RPG great for me is the balance between story and gameplay. The more one of these aspects dominates the other, the less appealing an RPG is to me (although IF there is a dominant element then I prefer it to be gameplay). Now let me try to put some of the mentioned RPGs into their respectivate categories, using the balance between story and gameplay as the main factor.
W-RPGs:
I haven't played too many of those, but from what I know the gameplay is usually very dominant. To put it in numbers: Usually at least 80 to 90% gameplay.
Xenoblade Chronicles:
I agree with you on calling it a hybrid. It also has dominant gameplay, but just enough story to be considerd a J-RPG. I'd say about 67% gameplay and about 33% story, probably even a bit less. Zelda games would also fit in here, although they're not exactly "RPGs".
Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy X, Chrono Trigger, Tales series, Secrt of Mana, Phantasy Star IV or pretty much any "classic" J-RPG:
Those games are pretty balanced out. Sure they all have moments where one of the elements outweighs the other, but all in all there is no element that dominates the whole game. To put it in numbers again: 50%/50% or maybe 45%/55%
The Last Story, Illusion of Gaia:
This is a actually a pretty small group of games. That's also why I can't think of more than two. Basically here the story outweighs the gameplay, but there is just enough gameplay left to still be considere a J-RPG. In numbers: About 25 to 33% percent gameplay and 67 to 75% story.
Final Fantasy XIII:
Finally, games in this group have story as their absolute dominant factor and can almost be considered "interactive movies". In the case of Final Fantasy XIII I would say 85 to 90% story (although you're technically right when you say that combats don't count towards this, but I just don't count them towards "gameplay" either) and 10 to 15% gameplay. Well, it changes a bit in chapter 11 and 13, but overall that's how it is.
I haven't played "Heave Rain" yet and I'm not even sure if you can consider it an RPG, but from what I've heard it fits in here quite well.
And now back to your original statement:
being very story focused is what makes the great jrpg's.
Now that I have shared my view on the categorization of RPGs I think it's clear why I disagree with that statement. Most popular J-RPGs aren't even story-focussed to begin with. Assuming you're talking about games like Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VII when you say "great J-RPGs", thos games actually fall into the "balanced out" category (which, as I said, doesn't mean that they don't have a great story. Quite the opposite, actually). I only consider games from the latter two groups as "very story focused".
Well, actually, none of these groups is "especially good" or "especially bad". I the end the only thing that matters is your personal preference. I, for example, like games from the three groups in the middle, but I don't like games from the "outer" groups. They're just not my thing. Then there are people who just don't like those super emotional and exaggerated Japanese stories and would rather get down to action as fast as possible. They prefer games from the first two groups. And then there are also people who just don't have the time and/or motivation to spend hours with just developing your characters and would much rather get through a game's story as fast as possible. Those prefer games from the letter two groups. And yes, The Last Story IS one of those games.
