Gaming Why are all the best RPGs forgein

[Raestloz]

So what? I'm not a Japanese and I'm NOT from western country, what reason do I have to worship Western society? I WORSHIP AMERICA for their domination over computer and military, I worship Japan for their domination over the world of gaming, I WORSHIP U.K. for their great football, and not their hooligans.

I've seen better people explain things in better ways for 'biggots' which I take you're saying I'm a maggot, Mr. I-know-all-you-fool-worship-me-instead, who will never I respect, no matter how old you are (I did some browsing and deduced you're around 40s-60s, odd age for playing, and trust me, I didn't find it out on purpose). Thankfully, not all Englishmen are like you.

So, West invented RPG? Fine, trust that, it's history, what will you know? Who ever know when Japanese actually thought about stories? Of course!Mr Devi-sorry-thebobdevil

And sorry, but tabletops are NOT papers, what I asked was "battle system in paper" not "battle system in tabletop", so how did they do that? Oh, right, flip the papers, make it look like your character, and start pounding them, whoever flattened first lose. You seem to know the history so well, are you a RPG founder?

And so, what info source do you suggest? Google? You told me Wikipedia is not reliable, still you can't tell me even more reliable source than Wikipedia.

 

[Mooshywooshy]

All Authors of all books is are lame rip offs, they cant create anything on their own, they have to copy off the first person to ever write a book.

Which my anonymous sources state that the first book ever was written in America back in the paleolithic era by a Caveman named Jack.

 

[zeppo]

Raestloz, sorry, but you're sounding like a total ass. you should at least do a bit more research before starting flame wars. look up "bigot" in an english dictionary. research what tabletop rpgs WERE, instead of making blind, dumbfuck assumptions about stuff you know nothing about.

or you could just shut up.

oh yeah, and don't say hooligans. it sounds dumb.

 

[Jdbye]

There are lots of good japanese RPGs that are never released elsewhere, many of these luckily get fan translations. If there's a japanese game you want to play but don't understand anything of, always check if there's a fan translation of it.

Of course this doesn't apply as much for TV consoles, since they're usually region locked.

 

[Trygle12]

Well, Japan was amongst the many countries that saw westernization as the key to opening their own borders and expanding their opportunities in an increasingly hostile world. This led to a near disintegration of most of their classical cultures and themes. While they accepted western influences, they added their own unique twists as to retain at least some of their original culture. These twists are what attract so many westerners to Japanese culture... They are similar yet at the same time different. Surely if we have anyone to blame it should be ourselves for forcing so many to conform to our ideals.


The same applies to RPG and other type of games. Where turn-based games came from, no one knows for sure, as games like chess were thought to have been invented in India a long time ago. The statistics used within tabletop games may very well have been the basis for the Japanese use of statistics in their RPG genre, yet putting it in a digitized game format removes the one thing that had made the previous real life counterparts so monotonous tedious and boring: their dependency on the user's own unique math skills and their tolerance for dice rolls. The Japanese need not re-invent the wheel when they can simply make it run better. Claiming that the Japanese lack creativity solely because they didn't create the first form of Role-Playing-Game is as short-minded and shallow as saying that Western companies developing FPS games lack creativity because they failed to invent the firearm.

Truly great Western games seem far more uncommon partly due to the fact that great games ,by their very nature, are usually "diamonds in the rough." We western gamers constantly complain over the tendency of companies to release "shovelware" en masse. Western gamers then look to other sources for their gaming fix an find Japan as the big provider. This then may lead to the perception that Japan has far better control over the quality of their games and may lead to a great deal of praise regarding Japan in general. The truth is, whatever gets dumped on our shores is usually tried and tested in Japan before jumping the pond. Had every Japanese developer have its games come out in both America and Japan, with a simultaneous release date, no praise of Japan would be found, as we will get not only their gems but their "shovelware" as well. The fact of the matter is, Japan gets just as much "shovelware" as we do: we just get Japan's better games.


While Wikipedia may be edited by anyone, it is always under constant scrutiny by the staff and users. If there is a disputed fact, evidence will be required to retain it on the page. The effect may not be instantaneous, but it works out well in the long run. If you truly wanted to avoid using Wikipedia directly, you can always look at the references at the bottom of every page, some may seem shady but most are generally reliable.

EDIT: a Few grammatical errors.

 

[deathfisaro]

While Japan makes great RPGs, so does the West.
Might and Magic, Elder Scroll, and if I mention just two that's too few right?

I used to love turn based RPGs, Sakaguchi was my favorite RPG maker. But now, turn based RPGs just suck. In Lost Odyssey you have to wait 15 seconds after encounter to give your first attack command. That's pure waste of time, in old times the graphics weren't as good but they didn't force you to watch 30 seconds special attack sequence 2000 times in a row and get bored to freaking death.

I stopped playing Pokemon Pearl because the battles took too long and I think that's not the way RPG games should be played.

 

[Dylan]

My problem with RPGs on the DS is that i am very used to playing amazing graphical/gameplay RPGs on my 360 so its difficult for me to grow accustomed to DS RPGs.

 

[cutterjohn]

Most jRPGs share similar traits v. ARPGs, CRPGs, etc.
At level up the characters usually get preset advancements v. western RPGs usually allow the character to pick skills/spells and/or have randomized advancement for skills/hp/etc.

jRPGs usually have more complete stories/plots than comparable western RPGs, however they tend to lack any real choices for the player to make in advancing the plot. i.e. they are generally, linear in the extreme. Most western RPGs tend to offer at least one or two plot branches, and the possibility to complete quests out of order.

Western RPGs tend to have at least a few if not many sidequests whereas jRPGs tend to focus only on the main quest.

jRPGs tend to have rpe-generated characters and preset party compositions whereas most western RPGs tend to allow either selection from pre-generated base character types or customized character generation and party composition(if applicable).

Many jRPGs tend to have no puzzles whatsoever, while at various points in history western RPGs have had puzzle heavy components to none at all or somewhere in between. (With Oblivious we're heading back to dumbed down, hence no real puzzles that would frustrate Bethesda's new ADHD fanbase -> reduced customer base.)

Console games are MUCH cheaper to make than PC games, and Japan had some custom PC hardware that wasn't always compatible AFAIK so their PC game industry was slow to grow, while consoles almost always sold VERY well in Japan. Several consoles made it purely on Japanese sales as they had no western release or sold extremely poorly in the US. (Lower graphical requirements for consoles, and no variation in computation and GPUs between consoles of the same make.)

Japanese tend to remake games nearly endlessly. (How many different ports of the Final Fantasy series are we up to now? 5 or 6 for some of them? Although I'm kind of thinking that they can only milk the cow for so long...)

Some of the first jRPGs translated for the PSX were horrible. FF7 was one of the first decent jRPGs to appear in English for the PSX, which was then followed by a veritable flood for the non-Japanese market as a ton of jRPGs were NEVER translated, and I think that they'd be better off translating some of those than endlessly rehashing FF series, as they'd at least be new in the west.

Sony & M$ actually get quite a few western developers and have had some RPG or RPGish games made by western companies, e.g. Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain ARPG first appeared for the PSX but was then ported to PC and followon games morphed into, basically, FPM (First Person Melee, see Oblivious, Dark Messiah of M&M, etc.)

Western RPGs had quite a bit of random dungeon generation, etc. for a while, and hopefully with development costs rising we will see more randomized content again, which GREATLY extend the life of many games and improve them immensely. (Morrowind would've been MUCH better with randomized dungeons, even thous Bethesda started dumbing down the RPG mechanics with that release.)

 

[Bob Evil]

Random generation was a lovely thing in Daggerfall.

 

[podunk1269]

Cause we are dirty americans?

 

[bananaweed]

snip

You should really do your research before posting.

QUOTE(Trygle12 @ Apr 5 2008, 05:38 PM) The truth is, whatever gets dumped on our shores is usually tried and tested in Japan before jumping the pond. Had every Japanese developer have its games come out in both America and Japan, with a simultaneous release date, no praise of Japan would be found, as we will get not only their gems but their "shovelware" as well. The fact of the matter is, Japan gets just as much "shovelware" as we do: we just get Japan's better games.

Truth. People don't realize that the videogame industry is more robust in Japan, and vastly out-produce North American companies. The majority of those games probably aren't any good, and it's only the few successful ones that get translated and ported over for North American audiences. By this mechanism, through sheer volume of games produced, the Japanese market produces more 'good' games.

I'm not saying Japanese games aren't good, I'm saying that North Americans' views are skewed because we only get the good Japanese games.

 

[Bob Evil]

I've been saying that.

They produce at least as much mediocre or out-right crappy product, as the West does.

The West is a better term than just saying America or North America, as many games developers and publishers are in Europe, too.

 

[bananaweed]

I guess so. I'm from N.America, so Europe is also 'foreign'.

 

[deathfisaro]

Sakaguchi (Square and MistWalker) has his style, which is "watching an RPG". Basically what I mean by that is, once you reach a certain point (usually after beating a boss) a dramatic cutscene or CG is played.
If you look at Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, a lot of CGs, a lot of discs. So it's not really possible to let users affect the way plot unfolds. Even if they had the budget and large disc capacity, they'd go "Hey since we have 100GB on a single disc, let's put in unarchived high quality movies that take crapload of space instead of putting more movies in"

As for ports of early Final Fantasy games, they are technically easy to port to even handhelds. And since they are great games to begin with, you end up with at least a decent port. (I was quite amazed at the quality of SNES FF ports on GBA.)
And since some developers have frozen their styles, not having Final Fantasy doesn't stop the game from looking just like Final Fantasy. (BD,LO, Infinite Undiscovery..)

I like how JRPGs are growing old of turn based battles though. FF12 battles were not my type, it was too MMORPGish. FF7CC battles were encountered but full of action and was never boring. FF13 also took that idea and being developed as mix of action and turn based RPG.

I'm a hardcore Sakaguchi fan (Did I already say this?) and beat SNES Final Fantasy games so many times I could draw a detailed dungeon map with treasure chest locations even after not playing the game for 4 years.
(They're pretty much burned into my brain because I can't seem to forget this somewhat useless information)
But recently, I'm getting more disappointed in console JRPGs every year. The last good one I've played was DQ8 on PS2. Looks like handheld JRPGs are doing much better IMO.

 

[cupajoe]

Japanese RPGs are quite a bit different from European or American RPGs. It's all about perspective.

 

[Fieryshadowz]

Anyways, Japanese RPGs are quite a bit different from European or American RPGs. It's all about perspective.

I think you meant preferences. Which is sorta true, I grew up playing Localized Eastern games, (i.e., Pokemon, FinalFantasy, Dragon Warrior Monsters) as well as various others with great storylines like SNES -- Lufia series. Nowadays I find myself looking for RPG's like Lufia because of its wonderful love-story and gameplay. Sadly no game has satisfied my craving

 

[Artheido]

Because the majority of Western developers are horrible at making them.

Simply as.

 

[Fieryshadowz]

Because the majority of Western developers are horrible at making them.

Simply as.

No imagination probably. . . They seem to make cool FPS though. . . I guess their imagination is more into Fighting//Killing//Shooting thigns.

 

[Hillsy_]

No, RPGs are not originally from Japan. Do some research, before posting something like that.

They are a Western invention ... whether it be in video game or pen&paper form.

Do you people not know your games history?

Ultima, Might & Magic, Rogue, Dungeon, Adventure, Moria, Apshai ... the list goes on.

No Western RPGs, in the late 70s/early 80s = no Japanese RPGs now.


Also, not everyone in Japan eats raw fish every day.

Very well said. Japan did not invent RPG's. Don't you people know about Fighting Fantasy, Lonewolf, Dungeons & Dragons, RuneQuest etc..

Games such as Wizardry, Might & Magic, Elder Scrolls, Anvil of Dawn, Demise, Ultima, Baldurs Gate, Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master etc..

To be honest, I much prefer fighting a troll or orc instead of a walking bath tub found in the likes of FFVII! (Yes, play it and see) No dis-respect to FFVII, still a great game, but is everyone here besotted by everything the Japanese do? Or are you too young to read between the lines..

I agree, Japan has maintained a steady growth over the coming years, but the west still has a grasp on RPG's.

People...People..


Also,

QUOTEJapanese RPGs are quite a bit different from European or American RPGs. It's all about perspective.

Very true, the japanese like hardcore fighting, many battles; and a detailed storyline with character personality progression. Think of 'Dragon Quest' and 'Final Fantasy'. Lots and lots of battles so you can fight the end of level boss.. When I finished Dragon Quest VIII I had over 1,500 battles on my tally. The one thing I will say though, the Japanese have a unique style, with bizarre but creative ideas. Have a look at Disgaea, Odin Sphere or Makai Kingdom etc..

I think there is room for both. At least the west embrace the Japanese games, could the opposite be said?

 

[Eternal5]

This is Just how i see it,correct me if its way out there.

Japenese rpgs: Magical evil spirits and chosen warriors.

Western rpgs: Elves,orcs and ogres.