When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Zetta_x]

As long as <5% people pirate, I say it's healthy for the gaming economy.

There are a lot of games which no one is going to play or buy. Like kitty kitty boo boo fuck fuck, no one is going to dish out hard earned money for this game. However, people will pirate it because people will download anything that has legs on them. So while piracy may hurt the mainstream games, it balances it out by providing fluid dynamics for the games that no one is going to buy.

 

[retKHAAAN]

It's hilarious seeing people try and compare piracy to the "used games market".
Funny thing about the claim that devs make no money off of trade-ins...
What do most people buy with the money/credit they get from trade-ins? Games. New games and/or used games.
New vs. used games isn't a chicken vs. egg equation. There is most definitely an answer. In order for a game to be "used" it has to be purchased "new" at some point.
Does anyone honestly think that Modern Warfare 2 has sold 25 million copies for straight up cash, or that it would have? People trade in games for two reasons. One, the game isn't worth keeping. Two, they want money to spend on something else (likely another game). At $60 a pop, the "average gamer" can't afford to buy every big game that's released. So would a dev rather lose a sale completely due to market saturation or would they like there to be an option for those with less disposable income to get a hold of these games and get their cut through DLC?

Also, how many people trade in a game towards a pre-order? A bucking futtload do. The devs are definitely getting a cut based off items shipped to retailers as the publisher is getting paid for those games whether they sell or not.

Piracy, on the other hand, is straight theft. "I'm not taking anything from anyone, I'm just making a copy. I wouldn't have bought it anyway." Bullshit. You are utilizing a good or service without the consent of the provider of that good or service. Exchange of money grants permission. There are no cases in which piracy is acceptable. "But such&such game wasn't released in my region. Games are too expensive here." So. People in Venezuela are paying $0.20 a gallon for gasoline while I just paid $3.39 a gallon two nights ago (yeah...I know many people are paying much more...) and you're crying injustice over video games?

 

[koimayeul]

Eh, a pirating legitimacy thread, how i missed those!

Well, it can't hurt industry to pirate a movie/game/song once in a while if you delete it from your hard drive after use.. I guess..
Or for testing purpose for a few hours, them being either overpriced or hardly available (too old, import, etc) .. I could understand that.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one.

to me in most normal cases, if the games are no longer being made like say GBA carts, I think its fair game.
otherwise it really depends on the situation, i.e. I always download Sonic games before possibly buying them as they have had a fair few stink bombs over the more recent years (Sonic 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog... I'm looking at you!)

Thats just my thoughts. But if anyone is curious I do buy most of my games unless I've hopped on a platform I cant get games new from since the publisher and devs wont get a bit of the money it then comes down to if I want too

 

[Rizsparky]

Imo, never. If your'e caught then its your responsibility to handle the consequences.

 

[SuzieJoeBob]

^Technically it is. There are laws (at least here in Aus) which limits you to photocopying max 10% of a book or something along those lines. Which is fair imho.

Looking through the other comments, I find it funny how some people take it as their sworn duty to lead the crusade against the evils of making large sums of money. If you don't agree to a company's policy, you boycott it. Not steal from it. Two wrongs don't make a right (Yes I know I am pushing it). If their devious money-making schemes are a "crime" you do not commit another crime to set it straight. Just sayin'.

Now where did I put my Ferrari which I took from them evil people who charge too much for a four-wheeled vehicle?

Okay, my college distributes printed versions of the online textbooks for free, yet they may or may not have received permission from the company/author who made it. When I say "printed", I really mean that the online books are sent to a printer, are printed out, put in order, and then bound with that plastic binding ring. Is that not wrong??? After all, they aren't making money from it.

Also, if any one person here made a product and so much as one copy was pirated, they would be bitching up a f***ing storm up in here!!!

 

[Valwin]

I wouldn't shell out 60 bucks in a game either, especially when you know the production cost is at least two times lower.

so whats if production cost are cheaper they need to make money why would they make games that will earn them nothing ?

 

[Originality]

I skipped everything after page 1 because I know people will have already said anything I could say. I'll just drop my opinion and never look back.

I consider myself a good pirate. I pirate either because the game is unobtainable any other way (e.g. Japanese only release), or because I'm undecided if I want to buy it or not. If I really like the game then I'll buy it, like with the Star Ocean series.
Do I care what the rest of the world thinks of me? No - I stick to what I think is right.

 

[SuzieJoeBob]

Very true. Their motto is "Try before you buy!"


That's silly. Some people are surprisingly too lazy to pirate on their own!

Actually, GameFly is a contradiction, just like Starburst; you get to play a videogame without having to buy it, but you are still paying for the ability to do so. Also, the companies that give GameFly permission to distribute their games do make money from the rentals, as there is a contractual obligation by GameFly to give Company A x% of the profit made off of the game's rental, so it isn't piracy.

It is piracy, though, if the GameFly member makes a backup copy and doesn't delete it after sending the game back. Also, performing a "data install" (PSP games) or installing on-disc content to the harddrive (such as the XBOX 360, where the game installs specific data to speed up a game's loading times) and does not remove said data after returning the game. Lastly, if said data is only available on a specific version of the game (collector's edition / limited edition), most notably the "exclusive add-on content", and said data isn't removed, yet again this is piracy. Though it isn't piracy on the GameFly member's end, it is illegal to rent out the rental without legal permission from GameFly and the company that made the game. Another interesting thing to mention is that you are still legally responsible for any/all illegal backups made by anyone in possession of the game(s), so long as you are the one who is still marked as the one to whom the game was rented out to. Think of a public library; as long as the library's records say that you are currently renting the book, you are still held responsible for a book being in worse condition, even if your friend was the one who ruined it.

 

[3bbb7]

I dont pirate much anymore but sometimes like when I want to play a ds game I never got to play. why go spend $20 on a game that is almost 7 or 8 years old or whatever. (wow its been nearly 9 years since the original ds release thats crazy)
Honestly all ds games suck, so why waste money on games that have little effort put into them? Some games were great like metroid prime hunters and mario kart ds, but some were just horrible. Like metroid ran fast and the graphics were great for a handheld console. It was one of the FIRST ds games and its still better than 90% of the DS fps's. (they all look horrible too and run slower...) companies wernt using the full ds capabilities. THey just wanted money for a poorly made game, so why support them?

I also buy indie games, i wil never pirate them. And i buy everything on steam

 

[the_randomizer]

Yes it is.

So is Gamestop, they have a system that can be easily abused. You buy a used game and are given a two week grace period to return it for a full refund.

1) Buy used game and play it
2) Return to Gamestop within two weeks
3) ????
4) Profit!

Why should we give second hand shops money if they're committing piracy?

 

[Deferet]

The people who put in the work on the actual games usually don't get paid more when a game does good, they make either an hourly wage or a salary, and most times these workers are hired on a contract for 1 or more projects. I myself have worked on a couple games and the only extra money I got was for overtime. I myself pirated a couple of these games myself and own no intellectual part of any of these games.

And I believe that copyright is up to 75 years, I may be wrong, but when I was in school I think that's what it was and Disney was lobbying to get it changed to 100 years, again, not 100% sure. But I also remember hearing (when I worked at EB Games) that the original NES was out of copyright hence the reproductions you can find at the mall different copyright? I don't know.

This is in no way saying pirating is ok, but there's so much grey area you can argue for.

 

[Mantis41]

I thought we all decided that piracy wasn't wide spread enough to have any financial effect whatsoever. I can't be bothered digging up the old threads to support this.

Not that this makes it justifiable it just nullifies the I went bankrupt because of piracy comments and turns it into I went bankrupt due to excessive competition, low market and shit games.

 

[Smuff]

I love these threads too.

Pirate and be damned I say!
I just borrowed a genuine copy of Far Cry 3 from a friend and played it through without ever coughing up 1 red cent to the developers. How is this any different in the only way that matters (the cash in the developers pockets) from me downloading a copy and playing it ? One scenario is overlooked, the other is evil incarnate that will destroy the world.

In the 70's they told us "home taping is killing music!" - How's that worked out for you ?

PS. Don't look at my Kindle or iPod ffs

 

[Fishaman P]

1) Try before you buy. Can't be a ridiculous amount of time; 1 month is more than enough most of the time.
2) Your legally-purchased official game doesn't work anymore (cracks, scratches, age, etc.)
3) You want to emulate the game.
4) It's a different region or version of a legally-purchased, official game you own.

5) You're dirt-poor and addicted to video games.

 

[Deleted-236924]

(except for the last one, depending on your viewpoint).

[...]

4) I just down-right feel that the company doesn't deserve it. For me, this is mainly Nintendo with Mario Bros. It's the same thing over and over again, using the same programs/engines used to make the previous one. All they did was rearrange a few things.

Yup, you're right. About that first statement, that is.

If you feel that the company doesn't deserve your money for their game due to it being the same game over and over again, then why, tell me, why do you feel the game is worth pirating then?

 

[Sychophantom]

Sry guys if this was a sensitive subject. I actually thought I was starting some type of intelligent debate.

Intelligent debate, on the internet?

Does not compute.


All jokes aside, I've been posting about how it is basically illegal to do what most buy flashcarts for and hack their machines to do. Not that I think I'm some moral avenger or want people to stop, but mostly because I find the subject fascinating, and also find how people justify breaking laws equally fascinating.

Everything can be justified if you think hard enough about it. It might not make sense to anyone else, but everyone is a special and unique snowflake, with the exception of Taylor Swift fans. Those fuckers can go to hell.

To a small game company, that probably loss of a sale from a pirate's actions might hurt enough to not make another game. Or, maybe make that dev not half-ass the next game (hear that, Renegade Kid?). OR maybe they'll insist on being called Betty and live off of nothing but pudding for a few years. Who knows?

To a medium-sized company, it might sting a bit, but the paying customers will keep them in snack cakes and beer until they put out the next game. Maybe if enough people pirate, they may need to switch to a cheaper beer. Again, who knows?

To a company like Activision or EA or Capcom, they'll make up for it via DLC (On disc already, right Capcom?) and get on with trying to squeeze every drop of milk out of whatever cash cow they have at the moment. Once in a while they might say "Oh, piracy hurts. Now bend over, because we have more map packs to sell". It has an effect, but the CEO doesn't feel it. Maybe they fire the guy in the mail room so profits still look as good.


The result? Those small time devs might not stick around. The soul-suckers at the large corporations put out Call of Duty XXXVIII with map packs that cost more than the game, and people wank all over it because they never see anything better.

Or, the small timers become the big timers (like Mojang), and milk their cash cows too.

Piracy will go on either way. If you like a game enough, throw a few bucks toward it. Maybe you'll get better games, or maybe you won't.

 

[jimskeet2002]

Stop with this "is it ok to get pirated games" bs.... Really... I play almost only pirated games... If company wants me to buy its game put it on a reasonable price.... 50$ is not a price for a game... Movie industries create movies with budgets of million dollars and I can enjoy it with 8$ on my cinema... Why the heck do i have to pay 50$ to get a game? Piracy is not the problem of game industry... High prices is... Same thing happened with music industry.... and now they cant sell cds..... Oh and if i didnt play pirated games there was no chance i would pay 50$ to get them... So in the end they dont lose money I just play them pirated instead of not playing them at all... like the majority of guys do Steam seems to have gotten the point though... Bought the new counter strike for 5.50$ That I call a normal price
This is the fact about piracy and nothing else so don't bother wasting your time with the moral aspect of it or when it is ok or not. It is a fact of industry... You can't fight it. You just accept it

 

[Rydian]

and also find how people justify breaking laws equally fascinating.

If all laws were just and agreed with by the majority of the people, amendments and repeals wouldn't have much of a job, eh?

To a small game company, that probably loss of a sale from a pirate's actions might hurt enough to not make another game. Or, maybe make that dev not half-ass the next game (hear that, Renegade Kid?).

The whole "lost sale" thing is total bullshit.

Let's say I go to a friend's house to watch The Hobbit with them instead of buying my own copy. Lost sale, industry is hurt?
Let's say I buy a copy of a game used instead of from Gamestop. Lost sale, industry loses money somehow?

Same deals as piracy, right? You're getting to experience the product without giving money to the original company. So if piracy "harms" businesses, so does sharing a game or movie with friends/family.

But no, that's crap. If we could all go around claiming people are bad for NOT doing things they never agreed to do in the first place (and choosing alternatives instead), I could go around suing for blowjobs 24/7.

OR maybe they'll insist on being called Betty

Kung Pow?

 

[Sychophantom]

The whole "lost sale" thing is total bullshit.

Let's say I go to a friend's house to watch The Hobbit with them instead of buying my own copy. Lost sale, industry is hurt?
Let's say I buy a copy of a game used instead of from Gamestop. Lost sale, industry loses money somehow?

Same deals as piracy, right? You're getting to experience the product without giving money to the original company. So if piracy "harms" businesses, so does sharing a game or movie with friends/family.

But no, that's crap. If we could all go around claiming people are bad for NOT doing things they never agreed to do in the first place (and choosing alternatives instead), I could go around suing for blowjobs 24/7.

I'd sue for a blowjob. But lawyers, man.....they'd want half of that blowjob. No lawyer deserves that.

Rent, play over a friend's house, borrow from a library.....that isn't a lost sale. SOMEONE bought the game/movie/music/book/ocelot. In some cases of piracy, still, someone bought the item, usually (I knew a few Gamestop employees who would rip games while at work and share with friends).

That whole used game thing is an old arguement. I like used games. I see buying a used game as supporting a local business. (I rarely buy used games from Gamestop or national chains. Local places, yes, I like supporting local places). I know devs get jack shit from that, but it keeps a roof over the head of someone I consider a friend. That's fine by me.