Whats your religion

[ProtoKun7]

Of course not. Last time I checked I'm not God. How would that show respect to the person that gave me life in the first place? God created all life, and he has perfect reasoning, while I don't. The killing of my own child would be wrong as I'm not the life giver.

Would you call sending down your son to die for sins you knew you created "reasonable"? Especially since you know you can solve it any way you want, meaning without some dramatic murder sacrifice?

With perfection includes a perfect sense of justice. When Adam sinned, he lost perfect human life and the only way to repay that debt was to sacrifice another perfect human life. Nothing else would have suited the situation. It's hardly murder when Jesus knew what had to be done before ever coming to Earth. It was his choice and he was willing to go through with it.



I get the feeling this is just going downhill.

Of course, the moment I say that you'll just say I'm running out of things to say, which I'm not, but it's obvious this is clearly going off the tracks, and there's a brick wall approaching.

 

[Necron]

God was created by Man in order to comfort himself.

I can remember this in a philosophy class. So it was like this: "When a human being thinks about a higher entity, that idea, by itself, could not exist (because we are among only humans and no one has seen God). So, who put that idea there? a higher entity. So philosophycally speaking, god exist"
It was something like that. In philosophy a god exist.

Man has never seen a unicorn. Man thinks about unicorns. Therefore, unicorns are real.

Just saying what the teacher told us in that class. Oh, and horses exist and things with horns exists, so you still have a base to star.
And the thread became from "Whats your religion" to "God doesn't exist or prove me wrong" lol

 

[MFDC12]

God was created by Man in order to comfort himself.

I can remember this in a philosophy class. So it was like this: "When a human being thinks about a higher entity, that idea, by itself, could not exist (because we are among only humans and no one has seen God). So, who put that idea there? a higher entity. So philosophycally speaking, god exist"
It was something like that. In philosophy a god exist.

there are so many elements and theories in philosophy that many start to contradict each other.
my philosophy went pretty in depth about god/souls/what have you, and the philosophical arguments against souls/god are pretty convincing, to me at least. however there are some for them that are kind of convincing (qualia being one of them, which i think is the really only convincing argument that a soul exists).

this statement is offtopic: if you have a good phil prof, that class is fucking life changing. you really wont know what to think anymore

because of it i no longer truly believe in free will (which the christian god is said to have given us), chance/luck, ghosts, and so many things. how can we even be sure this is real life and not a just dream, and what we seem to dream is not really our life

 

[DeathStrudel]

I get the feeling this is just going downhill...it's obvious this is clearly going off the tracks, and there's a brick wall approaching.

This is pretty much exactly what I've been saying

 

[metal079]

im roman Catholic and proud.

 

[Necron]

God was created by Man in order to comfort himself.

I can remember this in a philosophy class. So it was like this: "When a human being thinks about a higher entity, that idea, by itself, could not exist (because we are among only humans and no one has seen God). So, who put that idea there? a higher entity. So philosophycally speaking, god exist"
It was something like that. In philosophy a god exist.


there are so many elements and theories in philosophy that many start to contradict each other.
my philosophy went pretty in depth about god/souls/what have you, and the philosophical arguments against souls/god are pretty convincing, to me at least. however there are some for them that are kind of convincing (qualia being one of them, which i think is the really only convincing argument that a soul exists).

this statement is offtopic: if you have a good phil prof, that class is fucking life changing. you really wont know what to think anymore

because of it i no longer truly believe in free will (which the christian god is said to have given us), chance/luck, ghosts, and so many things. how can we even be sure this is real life and not a just dream, and what we seem to dream is not really our life

Yes, philosophy is full of different arguments and theories, because of the different manners of thinking of the human.
I can't remember now, but there was a theory which the human being can't feel the real world because of the imperfect senses we have, so the real vision of the world was clouded.

And yes, I have thought about the matrix thing. And then, everything gets more complex.

QUOTE

This is pretty much exactly what I've been saying

Yep. Probably the thread should be closed, since the original idea is not in discussion anymore.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

Of course not. Last time I checked I'm not God. How would that show respect to the person that gave me life in the first place? God created all life, and he has perfect reasoning, while I don't. The killing of my own child would be wrong as I'm not the life giver.

Would you call sending down your son to die for sins you knew you created "reasonable"? Especially since you know you can solve it any way you want, meaning without some dramatic murder sacrifice?

With perfection includes a perfect sense of justice. When Adam sinned, he lost perfect human life and the only way to repay that debt was to sacrifice another perfect human life. Nothing else would have suited the situation. It's hardly murder when Jesus knew what had to be done before ever coming to Earth. It was his choice and he was willing to go through with it.



I get the feeling this is just going downhill.

Of course, the moment I say that you'll just say I'm running out of things to say, which I'm not, but it's obvious this is clearly going off the tracks, and there's a brick wall approaching.

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

Then just delete the actual substance of this topic--the debate. Just delete all of it and only have the "what religion are you?" part of it.

 

[ProtoKun7]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

 

[FAST6191]

God was the one who gave us human standards.

Apologies if I am twisting words or you are going a devil's advocate style debating technique but is that so?

Many options here
Prior to the formation of a given religion were there no standards? I might also mention some moral philosophies being inherited from earlier belief structures and division between certain religions over what is what (thinking ten commandments at this stage)
In some flavours of Christianity at least and depending on your chosen interpretation of certain passages- laws of man are respected. (Yes I watched Dogma last night)
Is such a statement not flirting with the much maligned "without religion one is without morals" line of thought.
Evolutionary psychology and/or basic sociology might also have something to say.
Finally the big one- it was hinted at in the first line but the pick and choose nature of many aiming for interpretation of religious works not to mention translation. Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzEs2nj7iZM just because I think it is funny.

Re "Man has never seen a unicorn. Man thinks about unicorns. Therefore, unicorns are real."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/20/unicorn_captured/

I know that is not what you meant and such logic is not ideal (probability usually factors into this) but still.

 

[The Catboy]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

He sent his son down to die. He could have done a million and 1 things with his God powers, but instead he felt the need to kill off his son.

 

[Necron]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

When the first men commited sin, the only way to pay the sin was the death.
God didn't sent his son, he offered himself to do that. The plan was to gather all the sins in one man, so they could be forgiven by his death.

 

[machomuu]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

He sent his son down to die. He could have done a million and 1 things with his God powers, but instead he felt the need to kill off his son.

I'm not going to support nor deny the notion of Jesus sending his son down to die, but does it really need to make sense? Most things about God don't make sense, so why would it start there? Personally, I don't believe most of the stuff I read in the bible (I mean, saying God is all good and then having a man spontaneously explode...well, I think you get the point).

 

[Blood Fetish]

When the first men commited sin, the only way to pay the sin was the death.
God didn't sent his son, he offered himself to do that. The plan was to gather all the sins in one man, so they could be forgiven by his death.

He's all-powerful. Why not just forgive everyone?

 

[Necron]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.How does it not make sense?

He sent his son down to die. He could have done a million and 1 things with his God powers, but instead he felt the need to kill off his son.

I'm not going to support nor deny the notion of Jesus sending his son down to die, but does it really need to make sense? Most things about God don't make sense, so why would it start there? Personally, I don't believe most of the stuff I read in the bible (I mean, saying God is all good and then having a man spontaneously explode...well, I think you get the point).

The thing is, you need to read very carefully. But someone who doesnt belive, will never find any sense in the Bible.
Its like when you read a book you dont like, no many how many times, it will still suck to you (just a slight comparison, here we are not talking of tastes)

QUOTE(ProtoKun7 @ Apr 10 2011, 04:08 PM)

QUOTE(Uncle FEFL @ Apr 10 2011, 09:04 PM)

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

He sent his son down to die. He could have done a million and 1 things with his God powers, but instead he felt the need to kill off his son.

I'm not going to support nor deny the notion of Jesus sending his son down to die, but does it really need to make sense? Most things about God don't make sense, so why would it start there? Personally, I don't believe most of the stuff I read in the bible (I mean, saying God is all good and then having a man spontaneously explode...well, I think you get the point).

Yep, he could have done that. But when you forgive someone for something he shouldnt have done just like that, he most likely will do it again.
In the bible you can find many things that explain this, but probably, just like many said, you will find it a nonsense.

 

[spinal_cord]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

How on earth would killing your son teach a group of OTHER people a lesson?

 

[Fear Zoa]

No arguing will ever get this anywhere......people believe whatever is necessary for them to stay sane.....its different for all of us....thats why there are so many religions...

Human nature won't let us just leave something blank....so we fill in the blank ourselves....whether its with science or religion...

Humans are weak in this fact.....we just can't stay sane with an unknown in our lives it seems

 

[ProtoKun7]

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.How does it not make sense?

He sent his son down to die. He could have done a million and 1 things with his God powers, but instead he felt the need to kill off his son.

I'm not going to support nor deny the notion of Jesus God sending his son down to die, but does it really need to make sense? Most things about God don't make sense, so why would it start there? Personally, I don't believe most of the stuff I read in the bible (I mean, saying God is all good and then having a man spontaneously explode...well, I think you get the point).

The point is, God is perfect and has perfect justice. The fact that we are not only imperfect but in relation, far inferior means that we can't understand everything he does. It's illogical for an imperfect being to believe he knows more or has a more sensible solution than a perfect being.

QUOTE(ProtoKun7 @ Apr 10 2011, 09:08 PM)

QUOTE(Uncle FEFL @ Apr 10 2011, 09:04 PM)

I didn't know God sacrificing his son was "the only way" to administer justice. You said it yourself, who are we to judge God's intentions? Anything that God did would be seen as perfect justice. The killing of its son just doesn't make one bit of sense.

How does it not make sense?

How on earth would killing your son teach a group of OTHER people a lesson?

It was to atone for the original sin, not just to teach people a lesson. The sin created a debt that could only be repaid by an equal payment.

 

[The Catboy]

The point is, God is perfect and has perfect justice. The fact that we are not only imperfect but in relation, far inferior means that we can't understand everything he does. It's illogical for an imperfect being to believe he knows more or has a more sensible solution than a perfect being.

If God is perfection, should he have not seen our imperfections and fixed them? If he is of perfect justice, should he have not been able to rid the world of evils as easily as a snap of his fingers?

 

[Blood Fetish]

The point is, God is perfect and has perfect justice. The fact that we are not only imperfect but in relation, far inferior means that we can't understand everything he does. It's illogical for an imperfect being to believe he knows more or has a more sensible solution than a perfect being.

Perfect says who?

 

[ProtoKun7]

The point is, God is perfect and has perfect justice. The fact that we are not only imperfect but in relation, far inferior means that we can't understand everything he does. It's illogical for an imperfect being to believe he knows more or has a more sensible solution than a perfect being.

If God is perfection, should he have not seen our imperfections and fixed them? If he is of perfect justice, should he have not been able to rid the world of evils as easily as a snap of his fingers?

He will. It hasn't happened yet, but now that the debt has been paid, perfection will return. We don't know when, and right now we just have to wait.