Whats your religion

[Magmorph]

Since when did being an atheist require you to also be an iconoclast?

If I may take a moment to butcher Shakespeare, I can't help but feel that many of the atheists in the thread "doth protest too much." I have a suspicion that a great many of you, on some level, wish to be genuinely convinced that there is in fact a God. If the concept is ridiculous and the believers are by extension ridiculous individuals; then why engage in a discourse that from your own perspective must appear futile?

I tend to think that maybe some of you aren't entirely content in your atheism. Perhaps you experience a spiritual void at times; an emptiness not address by non-theistic ideologies. And like a child too proud to admit his own insecurity, you enter discussions such as this one, with snide remarks and barbed questions.

I already tried to make a similar point earlier. If you're an atheist, why argue with people who aren't going to change their religious perspective? and why go looking for evidence that you aren't going to find? If there was some sort of tangible evidence that definitively proved there was a god, then I think you would know without having to look for it.
And if you're religious, why would you try to convince people that your religion is correct when I highly doubt you would even consider converting to another religion or become an atheist

I know people can change their views. It won't necessarily be the people debating but perhaps someone who is reading the debate.

It is also a subject that interests me. Whats wrong with debating it?

 

[ProtoKun7]

I already tried to make a similar point earlier. If you're an atheist, why argue with people who aren't going to change their religious perspective? and why go looking for evidence that you aren't going to find? If there was some sort of tangible evidence that definitively proved there was a god, then I think you would know without having to look for it.

Often the evidence stares people right in the face yet people take it for granted. Not to emulate the "beauty of nature" attitude mentioned earlier, but when you look not only at the intricacies of nature itself, including the functions of different animals and the design of DNA, and conversely the vastness of the universe, the raw power it contains, and the harmony of the celestial bodies (including the exact positioning and conditions of the Earth to support life, you can't just think that it all happened by accident. To do so is just...immeasurably foolish, in want of a better term.

 

[Necron]

Not quite. Satan was allowed time to prove his point and it's clearly not going so well for him though. He was wrong.

Not to say that I don't believe that, but I just question that idea. As God, more like an immortal, all mighty, all-seeing being, God wouldn't even need to do that. He's perfection as said before, thus meaning he has compete power of that situation and honestly would have already known all this in advance.
I just want to know why God would do all that, it just seems put all that work into something he was just going to let fail first place.

I can agree in this point with you. But, the mechanism of knowing the future is not clearly explained, so I cant really say much. Probably, future changes all the time according with our actions, therefore, God knows what is going to happen if we follow a certain way or another, but this is an assumption.
If it were like that, the life is meaningless, because the future is already known.

 

[DeathStrudel]

Often the evidence stares people right in the face yet people take it for granted. Not to emulate the "beauty of nature" attitude mentioned earlier, but when you look not only at the intricacies of nature itself, including the functions of different animals and the design of DNA, and conversely the vastness of the universe, the raw power it contains, and the harmony of the celestial bodies (including the exact positioning and conditions of the Earth to support life, you can't just think that it all happened by accident. To do so is just...immeasurably foolish, in want of a better term.

That is not evidence at all. The Universe in so large we can't even really comprehend it so out of the billions upon billions of planets, the likelihood that at least one would have the conditions that earth has is actually pretty high. I'm sorry, but it seems like you don't have very much scientific knowledge and don't realize that it is entirely possible for things to have happened "by accident" as you put it

 

[The Catboy]

Not quite. Satan was allowed time to prove his point and it's clearly not going so well for him though. He was wrong.

Not to say that I don't believe that, but I just question that idea. As God, more like an immortal, all mighty, all-seeing being, God wouldn't even need to do that. He's perfection as said before, thus meaning he has compete power of that situation and honestly would have already known all this in advance.
I just want to know why God would do all that, it just seems put all that work into something he was just going to let fail first place.

I can agree in this point with you. But, the mechanism of knowing the future is not clearly explained, so I cant really say much. Probably, future changes all the time according with our actions, therefore, God knows what is going to happen if we follow a certain way or another, but this is an assumption.
If it were like that, the life is meaningless, because the future is already known.

To me that would imply that there a flaw in God, a small flaw, but honestly a flaw. That would mean that God is not all knowing.

 

[ShineroDark]

Can we just turn this thread into a poll with a bunch of religions?
Also I'm LDS (Mormon)

 

[DeathStrudel]

I'm just gonna leave this here

 

[KingVamp]

To me that would imply that there a flaw in God, a small flaw, but honestly a flaw. That would mean that God is not all knowing.

You can't know something going to happen, but something changes it? Would that actually be a flaw if something he knows
change?

Future isn't set in stone.

Maybe he want to see it not just know?

 

[Necron]

Not quite. Satan was allowed time to prove his point and it's clearly not going so well for him though. He was wrong.
Not to say that I don't believe that, but I just question that idea. As God, more like an immortal, all mighty, all-seeing being, God wouldn't even need to do that. He's perfection as said before, thus meaning he has compete power of that situation and honestly would have already known all this in advance.
I just want to know why God would do all that, it just seems put all that work into something he was just going to let fail first place.

I can agree in this point with you. But, the mechanism of knowing the future is not clearly explained, so I cant really say much. Probably, future changes all the time according with our actions, therefore, God knows what is going to happen if we follow a certain way or another, but this is an assumption.
If it were like that, the life is meaningless, because the future is already known.

To me that would imply that there a flaw in God, a small flaw, but honestly a flaw. That would mean that God is not all knowing.

I cant really say, because we dont know many things, but when you said that there is a flaw, I say there is missing info.
I understand your point, but as I said, the method is not explained (and I dont even know if it is humanly understable) so that assumption may be wrong too.

QUOTE(DeathStrudel @ Apr 10 2011, 06:07 PM)

I'm just gonna leave this here


img]http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/christianity-demotivational-poster.gif[/img]

Funny, in the term that this image just has the thing of general knowledge about Jesus. I can explain it, but it would take a lot of time.

 

[Sterling]

And you still disagree with god of the bible being a murderer, even though you have read facts for yourself?

Like I said, there's a difference between killing and murder. Who are we to try and judge God by human standards? That's backwards.

God was the one who gave us human standards. If he didn't want us to judge him he could have easily not given them to us.

No, humans gave humans, human standards. God just created, and said, "Have at it".

 

[Magmorph]

I already tried to make a similar point earlier. If you're an atheist, why argue with people who aren't going to change their religious perspective? and why go looking for evidence that you aren't going to find? If there was some sort of tangible evidence that definitively proved there was a god, then I think you would know without having to look for it.

Often the evidence stares people right in the face yet people take it for granted. Not to emulate the "beauty of nature" attitude mentioned earlier, but when you look not only at the intricacies of nature itself, including the functions of different animals and the design of DNA, and conversely the vastness of the universe, the raw power it contains, and the harmony of the celestial bodies (including the exact positioning and conditions of the Earth to support life, you can't just think that it all happened by accident. To do so is just...immeasurably foolish, in want of a better term.

There are many planets a hospitable distance from their stars. Natural selection is very different from an accident and does a very good job of explaining what happened in the past and predicting what will happen in the future.

 

[The Catboy]

I cant really say, because we dont know many things, but when you said that there is a flaw, I say there is missing info.
I understand your point, but as I said, the method is not explained (and I dont even know if it is humanly understable) so that assumption may be wrong too.

True, but as I said, I am not here to question God's Will, I just have some questions that just lack answers. Maybe one day I will find the answer to them, but till then I find that these questions ultimately can not be answered by man

 

[Necron]

I cant really say, because we dont know many things, but when you said that there is a flaw, I say there is missing info.
I understand your point, but as I said, the method is not explained (and I dont even know if it is humanly understable) so that assumption may be wrong too.

True, but as I said, I am not here to question God's Will, I just have some questions that just lack answers. Maybe one day I will find the answer to them, but till then I find that these questions ultimately can not be answered by man

I say the same, these things cannot be answered by man. I, as a beliver, have many questions that I cannot find answers and Im hoping to find them some day.

 

[Magmorph]

And you still disagree with god of the bible being a murderer, even though you have read facts for yourself?

Like I said, there's a difference between killing and murder. Who are we to try and judge God by human standards? That's backwards.

God was the one who gave us human standards. If he didn't want us to judge him he could have easily not given them to us.

No, humans gave humans, human standards. God just created, and said, "Have at it".

Like I said before, he created us knowing what we would become. He could have changed the way we were created if he didn't like how human nature turned out.

 

[ProtoKun7]

Often the evidence stares people right in the face yet people take it for granted. Not to emulate the "beauty of nature" attitude mentioned earlier, but when you look not only at the intricacies of nature itself, including the functions of different animals and the design of DNA, and conversely the vastness of the universe, the raw power it contains, and the harmony of the celestial bodies (including the exact positioning and conditions of the Earth to support life, you can't just think that it all happened by accident. To do so is just...immeasurably foolish, in want of a better term.

That is not evidence at all. The Universe in so large we can't even really comprehend it so out of the billions upon billions of planets, the likelihood that at least one would have the conditions that earth has is actually pretty high. I'm sorry, but it seems like you don't have very much scientific knowledge and don't realize that it is entirely possible for things to have happened "by accident" as you put it

I wasn't saying that to suggest that the only life in the universe is on this planet. I was suggesting that the complexity of the universe; the size, the detail, both big and small, should be proof enough that things didn't just smash together and make it by accident.

 

[machomuu]

And you still disagree with god of the bible being a murderer, even though you have read facts for yourself?

Like I said, there's a difference between killing and murder. Who are we to try and judge God by human standards? That's backwards.

God was the one who gave us human standards. If he didn't want us to judge him he could have easily not given them to us.

No, humans gave humans, human standards. God just created, and said, "Have at it".

Like I said before, he created us knowing what we would become. He could have changed the way we were created if he didn't like how human nature turned out.

Why would God change human nature if he didn't like how it turned out? God is supposedly Omnipresent, in other words God supposedly exists outside of time.

P.S. I'm not an atheist by the way, I believe in God, but if one is willing to assert something about God I will question them.

 

[Magmorph]

Often the evidence stares people right in the face yet people take it for granted. Not to emulate the "beauty of nature" attitude mentioned earlier, but when you look not only at the intricacies of nature itself, including the functions of different animals and the design of DNA, and conversely the vastness of the universe, the raw power it contains, and the harmony of the celestial bodies (including the exact positioning and conditions of the Earth to support life, you can't just think that it all happened by accident. To do so is just...immeasurably foolish, in want of a better term.

That is not evidence at all. The Universe in so large we can't even really comprehend it so out of the billions upon billions of planets, the likelihood that at least one would have the conditions that earth has is actually pretty high. I'm sorry, but it seems like you don't have very much scientific knowledge and don't realize that it is entirely possible for things to have happened "by accident" as you put it

I wasn't saying that to suggest that the only life in the universe is on this planet. I was suggesting that the complexity of the universe; the size, the detail, both big and small, should be proof enough that things didn't just smash together and make it by accident.

The same could be said for a God. He would have to have been even more complex than the universe to create it. I don't think complexity is a valid argument for or against anything though.

 

[baladamy]

ROMAN CATHOLIC IS I AND IT IS BEST OF THE!!!

(i am now praying)
Now for some learning time

99.54% of Filipinos are Catholic. The rest are Muslims........ WOOT CATHOLIC!!!!

 

[ProtoKun7]

Why would God change human nature if he didn't like how it turned out? God is supposedly Omnipresent, in other words God supposedly exists outside of time.

Omnipresence isn't quite the same as existing outside of time.

 

[Magmorph]

Why would God change human nature if he didn't like how it turned out? God is supposedly Omnipresent, in other words God supposedly exists outside of time.

P.S. I'm not an atheist by the way, I believe in God, but if one is willing to assert something about God I will question them.

Omnipresent means to be everywhere at one. I also don't understand your question.