The Theories of the 2020 Election Conspiracy

[notimp]

The issue with that logic is that it still doesn’t make much sense. Mitch is obstructionist and doesn’t seem to want to cooperate with Democrats.

Camp think isnt all there is to rule a country. There are different fractions within the conservatives as well. He is with the one that ultimately is winning. (If you dont believe in everyone caving to Trumps rhetorics again, for literally almost no reason. The left pundits have a point there. The 'if we dont go populist, whe never will win an election again' talking point is BS. Its not the 'wave of the future'. The people realizing that actually are the intelligent ones. Imho.

Its just, that getting from here to there thats the problem. And for that you'd still could need some populist pull. But it has no position in dictating the future political outlook of your party. If you dont want to go fashist 2.0 - which, lets say most republicans dont want to.)

 

[The Catboy]

Camp think isnt all there is to rule a country. There are different fractions withing the conservatives as well. He is with the one that ultimately is winning. (If you dont believe in everyone caving to Trumps rhetorics again, for literally almost no reason. The left pundits have a point there. The 'if we dont go populist, whe never will win an election again' talking point is BS. Its not the 'wave of the future'.)

I don't think you understand the point I am trying to make. My point is more to focus on the idea that a grand conspiracy about Democrats trying to take over the country has weird holes in it. These holes mostly revolve around the fact that they really did a pretty poor job at actually enacting their plan because they left people that don't want to cooperate with them in power. If the plan was to put Biden in power and then have some Democrat takeover, they did a pretty poor job at actually executing it. A better takeover would have been to also rig the senate election to ensure they ended up with the least amount of opposition as possible. It makes very little sense to just target one position of power and leave the rest up to chance.

 

[Plasmaster09]

How about "he is loyal"? But then I dont believe the election was stolen. I cant argue against logic, thats based on a feeling, that if there was such a thing as a conspiracy, surely they would have cut Mitch out based on, that hes seen as a roadblock (by whom?).

Nice backpedaling, but tbh Mitch does things for power and power alone. He's broken every standard, law and form of common sense he can get away with for the sake of more power. Heck, he's half the reason there was so much (later proven demonstrably right) paranoia over Russian interference in 2016, due to having literal millions of Russian donations up his ass.
Mitch wouldn't side with Dems though... we're too hard to fool when he isn't in a situation where he can put our majority in a hostage situation by basically bullying the government.

 

[notimp]

Nice backpedaling, but tbh Mitch does things for power and power alone.

Which makes him a loyalist. I dont disagree with anything in your previous posting.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Which makes him a loyalist. I dont disagree with anything in your previous posting.

I just mean that he's seen as a roadblock by damn near everyone, as he IS a roadblock for anything and everything left-wing.
He'll cross every single line possible... except the party line.

 

[notimp]

I just mean that he's seen as a roadblock by damn near everyone, as he IS a roadblock for anything and everything left-wing.
He'll cross every single line possible... except the party line.

Who wants left wing progress? Isnt the game, just to get over the wall steet donors, so you can win the next election?

Mitch guaranteed that (too much inaction), and he is a guarantee for the stability of your political opponent, no? You dont want Trumpism to take over, do you? (Thats what almost cost you the election this time around, remember the 'latino voters' that showed up, and shouldnt have? NYT (as well as that political camp) was very enraged. That wasnt what was supposed to happen (Trump getting the second highest voter turnout historically).)

 

[Plasmaster09]

Who wants left wing progress? Isnt the game, just to get over the wall steet donors, so you can win the next election?

Mitch guaranteed that (too much inaction), and he is a guarantee for the stability of your political opponent, no? You dont want Trumpism to take over, do you? (Thats what almost cost you the election this time around, remember the 'latino voters' that showed up, and shouldnt have? NYT (as well as that political camp) was very enraged. That wasnt what was supposed to happen (Trump getting the second highest voter turnout historically).)

the goal is progress
unfortunately, republicans have learned that all they care about is winning, and so they've prioritized voter suppression tactics and various other flavors of unsavory bullshit
so we basically have to throw every flavor of NON-unsavory bullshit we can at them in an attempt to bypass their wall of schmuckery before we can even focus on actually making progress

 

[notimp]

the goal is progress

Is it?

Is that why the US has political dynasties?

The goal might be to have 'just enough progress'.

From my point of view, the US people voted for 'progress' (change) for four times in a row - and got, nothing. They even voted Trump in at the last elections, just because people thought he'd 'stick it to the man' - which of course, he didnt, so sad. Also, some of them might have wanted more economic growth, or infrastructure investments, wait - what progress are we talking about?

Identity politics? Progress we can believe in (the one from the slogans)?

The progress of "healing the nation"? (Lets do it like Obama?)

No, no - I know, the progress of not canceling stundet debt, and conspiring against Sanders election chances!
There we go.

Boy, the US must really hate the UK narrative by now - that, nationalism was progress. For the people. Thats probably why they now publically shun Bojo (not want to get seen with him in the same panel, like in the munich security conference for example). They dont do it to Trump of course. So much progress...

 

[Plasmaster09]

Is it?

Is that why the US has political dynasties?

The goal might be to have 'just enough progress'.

From my point of view, the US people voted for 'progress' (change) for four times in a row - and got, nothing. They even voted Trump in at the last elections, just because people thought he'd 'stick it to the man' - which of course, he didnt, so sad. Also, some of them might have wanted more economic growth, or infrastructure investments, wait - what progress are we talking about?

Identity politics? Progress we can believe in (the one from the slogans)?

The progress of "healing the nation"? (Lets do it like Obama?)

No, no - I know, the progress of not canceling stundet debt, and conspiring against Sanders election chances!
There we go.

Boy, the US must really hate the UK narrative by now - that, nationalism was progress. For the people. Thats probably why they now publically shun Bojo (not want to get seen with him in the same panel, like in the munich security conference for example). They dont do it to Trump of course. So much progress...

I repeat: we would have progress if we could have both progress and not an immediate disastrous loss.
Unfortunately, the Republicans have basically formed a brick wall barring us from getting EITHER, maybe pulling off one of the two on occasion if we're lucky.
We'd have progress by now if it weren't for figures like Mitch McConnell that still remain active and instrumental in pushing us around even while we're the majority.

 

[notimp]

I repeat: we would have progress if we could have both progress and not an immediate disastrous loss.
Unfortunately, the Republicans have basically formed a brick wall barring us from getting EITHER, maybe pulling off one of the two on occasion if we're lucky.
We'd have progress by now if it weren't for figures like Mitch McConnell that still remain active and instrumental in pushing us around even while we're the majority.

The US wouldnt have progress for anything in the world.
As we are debating, I'm watching the PR aftermath of the munich security conference (a round table you could coin 'the battle of the mouth pieces'), where the US representative, has just - smuggly - stated, that internationally the US have all the leaverage, and that 'its much harder for our friends in Europe and east asia, but tough decisions need to be made'.

F*ck that.

US wants to go down in inaction an economic centralism. Where all that counts are its immediate neighbors (mexico and canada), and maybe india.

Thats the progress you were aiming for - because thats what you are getting. With Biden.

Domestic politics - lets not start pretending, that anyone cares about generation barista, and 'hanging phones from the trees to get gigworking jobs'. I've personally sat in meetups with of that political orientation, were people were brought in to manage that crap. Here have the email address, of a former google PR person. I could share if you like?

What progress?

Dont hide behind empty left against right battles - over absolutely nothing. The US hasnt stood for progress in about three decades now. At least none, that would have benefited middle classes.

The progress of intellectual property rights? The progress of not allowing the world to tax your tech companies? The progress of threatening trade tariffs? The progress of making the world pay more for military services? The progress of retreating from the middle east, threatening international trade structures? The progress of exiting and then reentering the paris climate accords?

What progress?

 

[Deleted member 532471]

i do have a theory about it

i have a theory that people like you who like to think you're an enlightened intellectual, people that have some kind of knowledge that lets you see beyond
fail basic observation skills, as in, you're just a tool for some organized troll group who wants to see shit go down
you and other people who were baited into this such as yourself, just start projecting a magical reality because it's more interesting than what really is going on
once you're in a group, it becomes just a big echo chamber, where the fanfics go wild and the reality is ignored because it's not fun, it's not convenient, and worst of all, it has consequences

super spies, plot twists, turnabouts, secret heroes and villains, secret plans, lookalikes, treason... a whole political novela
if even a slither of the real information behind this kind of thing leaked to the public, it wouldn't be in a group with a bunch of crazy loudmouths, the person who leaked it and everyone who came in contact with them would have their necks snapped in a matter of minutes

you were just naive enough to fall for the viral part of the trump campaign my dude

the whole issue with viral media is that you can't track the source, so literally anyone can do it, even brands

 

[Plasmaster09]

The US wouldnt have progress for anything in the world.
As we are debating, I'm watching the PR aftermath of the munich security conference (a round table you could coin 'the battle of the mouth pieces'), where the US representative, has just - smuggly - stated, that internationally the US have all the leaverage, and that 'its much harder for our friends in Europe and east asia, but touch decisions need to be made'.

F*ck that.

US wants to go down in inaction an economic centralism. Where all that counts are its immediate neighbors (mexico and canada), and maybe india.

Thats the progress you were aiming for - because thats what you are getting. With Biden.

Domestic politics - lets not start pretending, that anyone cares about generation barista, and 'hanging phones from the trees to get gigworking jobs'. I've personally sat in meetups with of that political orientation, were people were brought in to manage that crap. Here have the email address, of a former google PR person. I could share if you like?

What progress?

Dont hide behind empty left against right battles - over absolutely nothing. The US hasnt stood for progress in about three decades now. At least none, that would have benefited middle classes.

The battles aren't empty.
They're between a side that at worst will maintain the status quo, and a side that at BEST will bring back the worst possible elements of the past, and at worst introduce entirely new forms of hatred into law.

 

[notimp]

The battles aren't empty.
They're between a side that at worst will maintain the status quo, and a side that at BEST will bring back the worst possible elements of the past, and at worst introduce entirely new forms of hatred into law.

Agreed. (I was wrong on that point.) But as far as political results are concerned... Not so many, in the past two decades, that could be pronounced 'progress' ('for the people' or 'for societies').

 

[MikaDubbz]

Of course there was no major election fraud. We just know that Trump is a sore loser and made it clear when he was running for president in 2016 that he would not accept any outcome except if he won back then as well. As I recall he said, "I'll accept the outcome of the election... only if I win." He laid it all out on the table, only if he won the election (in 2016) would he accept the outcome of the election, and presumably, if he lost he'd challenge it and declare fraud. Because in his head, the only way he could lose would be if it were fixed; god forbid the real possibility exists that not as many people adore him as he assumes.

 

[notimp]

Of course there was no major election fraud. We just know that Trump is a sore loser and made it clear when he was running for president in 2016 that he would not accept any outcome except if he won back then as well. As I recall he said, "I'll accept the outcome of the election... only if I win." He laid it all out on the table, only if he won the election (in 2016) would he accept the outcome of the election, and presumably, if he lost he'd challenge it and declare fraud. Because in his head, the only way he could lose would be if it were fixed; god forbid the real possibility exists that not as many people adore him as he assumes.

Well, that doesnt jell well with the argument, that democratic forces are under attack from all sides, the US just made at the munich security conference - which indicates, they very much still would like to blame that one on outside forces.

Also it doesnt explain, why the republican party as a whole has such a hard time distancing themselves from the Trump wing.

(He's coming back as a political figure in some form - and if its just 'handing over the batton', dont you worry... (If i'd had to bet.. ))

edit: Biden shuns Bin Salman - now surely - thats the progress you were looking for.


(This time from RT - but eh...)

And dont you worry, he held talks with the King instead.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/middleeast/saudi-biden-mbs-robertson-intl/index.html

Also MBS will be in on future calls.

But the posturing - oh, so much progress in that! The US postures, and that alone is to be seen as progress. Apparently.

edit:

Found the progress everyone was looking for!

Gender-based violence negative rappers in Namibia.

Theres your future top position in the 'what do you want to become, when you are grown up" charts. Go to Namibia first they said. Maybe bring them some bitcoin, they said. (And get the birth rate down.)

Cool hand movements though.

Oh, and dont believe one word, if someone tells you that this is mostly PR.

edit: Video: https://www.dw.com/en/choose-what-is-right-rapper-ees-urges-end-to-gender-based-violence/av-56602177

 

[MikaDubbz]

Lol gotta love the move to attacking complete different things than what I was addressing at all.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Lol gotta love the move to attacking complete different things than what I was addressing at all.

Because he has no argument for what you addressed, so felt the need to deflect to save his own ass. (Just like Trump!)
Pretty much the only decent point he's brought up is the fact that the Republicans still stick to Trump like a parasite sticking to another, larger parasite... except that can be explained by the fact that he's turned them into a fucking personality cult and has become their best possible option due to how much of the party goes with him and him exclusively over anyone or anything else.

 

[notimp]

Found the progress everyone was looking for!

Gender-based violence negative rappers in Namibia.

Theres your future top position in the 'what do you want to become, when you are grown up" charts. Go to Namibia first they said. Maybe bring them some bitcoin, they said. (And get the birth rate down.)

Cool hand movements though.

Oh, and dont believe one word, if someone tells you that this is mostly PR.

edit: Video: https://www.dw.com/en/choose-what-is-right-rapper-ees-urges-end-to-gender-based-violence/av-56602177

Btw: Here is the solution to this very enigmatic riddle.



Music video was produced in cooperation with DW (the german state financed foreign policy news outlet).

So my country (well almost.. ) does PR, how about yours?

 

[Plasmaster09]

Btw: Here is the solution to this very enigmatic riddle.



Music video was produced in cooperation with DW (the german state financed foreign policy news outlet).

So my country (well almost.. ) does PR, how about yours?

Mine does PR far better than it did a few months ago, that's for sure.
Biden's PR plays (or rather, things that might be PR plays but could also just be him living his life) are basically just doing kinda-wholesome regular-people activities. Like the classic politician "I'm just like you people" spiel, but actually reasonable since he actually does the regular-people things in regular-people places in front of regular people.
Trump's PR plays were, to put it lightly, disastrous.
Y'all remember the time he had the police pull out rubber bullets and tear gas and go no-mercy with them on completely peaceful supporters so that he could hold a photo-op with a Bible he held backwards and upside-down?

 

[notimp]

So progress now is 'just doing kinda-wholesome regular-people activities'.

The purpose of this little game was to get people away from the 'my guy, vs. your guy' think, because thats not how politics works most of the time. The only thing I can notice the Biden administration do differently in terms of domestic politics is to employ more identity based themes. Which got them a 'please dont push internationally, you are ruining our societies - communiqué' from france. And apart from that - everything, including tax policy - for the most part, has stayed the same. On foreign politics, US went back into the Paris climate accord, wowed to get back into talks with iran and thats it. Maybe add some posturing, that they are back internationally - mostly meaning, that they arent, and that their focus still is very much on the Atlantic. China still is regarded as an enemy.

So - nothing changed. Substantially. Take the politics of the first racial minority *enter position here* and try to identify what is different, apart from symbol politics that werent "structural" in the first place.

Border agencies still largely get legal immunity and increased funding (dreamers now got an eight year (!) entry path into the US), delocation into border towns didnt stop. Fences should be replaced with drones. On Covid Fauci gets TV time again, which I guess you could see as progress, and after some posturing, that the Trump government did no organizing for vaccine drives (because vaccines werent available), you now get most of your available doses moved (early on - the real problems on vaccine distribution in the US start later (with regions, where there is no infrastructure - so zero Covid is no option)). And thats it nothing else changed.

You can spout presidential names all day - but if the politics of republicans and democrats largely are the same why bother? Even taxcuts largely stayed the same - that was the concession made to wallstreet. Going back into the Paris climate accord is the only action that will influence the future outlook of corporations and job creation - apart from that, its an entirely blank sheet on political ideas and positions.

"Mending" foreign relations is a nice meme, but the fact is, that your past partners, which also wil be your partners in the future, used the four years to get busy and create new realities on the ground, so even if the rhetorics now changed, you arent changing that back. You just left everyone with more uncertainty - because internationally 'America first' now just became 'where would you be without the US' - which is essentially the same.

For all the 'we did it Joe, we did it!" posturing - you did, what? Here go over the list, and go over future open appointees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Joe_Biden

And tell me what change is.

All the political concessions made after the George Floyd incident, havent become structural changes on the national stage, ...

edit: Here go over that, and tell me where the progress can be found in all of this:
https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/p...-administration-changes-in-the-first-100-days

Most of those are just reversals on the surface, or the elimination of steps (entry bans), that were symbol politics in the first time.

• Increases U.S. green cards under the Diversity Visa Program from 55,000 to 80,000

You are a nation of 330 million people.

Or here:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/biden-administrations-opportunity-change

The first part is undoing republicans gerrymandering - to ensure future electability of the democratic party.

The second point is reigning back structural issues they US had for 30 years, a bit.
edit: Not to glance over this too much, actually - if this becomes reality, the most notable item people could imagine the Biden administration doing is, to reduce the US prison population ( https://www.statista.com/statistics...h-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/ ).

The third point is reducing presidential power.

Then you add 'fight white supremacy' and call it a day.

Those are just the first two google results I've found, so if you know of any more substancial proposals, please bring them forward.

So again, for all of the verbal fighting over 'democrats stole the elections' - nothing but symbol politics changed.