Hacking Switching CFW and in what concerns cheats?

[The Catboy]

Might I suggest if you want something like CakesFW, checking out Corbenik. I have been using it since launch and honestly will never turn back from it!

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Where the fuck did I say that?

Allow me to reiterate: All system applications check the kernel version. They ignore revision version. Minor version got updated so version check will fail once any system application updates to check for the new version, causing old firmlaunches (such as rxTools) to break.

It was a typo, I meant to say "changes to the kernel version".
I already edited my post.
And "we can't launch older than 9.6 on 9.6+"? What do you mean by that? Launching older emuNAND on 9.6+ FIRM? Because that works just fine. In fact, most CFW use one FIRM version regardless of emuNAND firmware. In the case of the n3DS this usually means 10.3 FIRM.
Edit: Luma (and derivatives) is the exception to this, because it loads FIRM from CTRNAND. It is still able to boot a 9.2 emuNAND using a 10.x/11.0 FIRM loaded from sysNAND, or vice versa.

 

[astronautlevel]

It was a typo, I meant to say "changes to the kernel version".
I already edited my post.
And "we can't launch older than 9.6 on 9.6+"? What do you mean by that? Launching older emuNAND on 9.6+ FIRM? Because that works just fine. In fact, most CFW use one FIRM version regardless of emuNAND firmware.

Yes, and the minor revision update already happened in 11.0, which you clearly implied didn't happen: https://gbatemp.net/threads/switching-cfw-and-in-what-concerns-cheats.430783/#post-6446447 That "major change" you're talking about already happened and it's pure luck that old firmlaunches still work.

And "we can't launch older than 9.6 on 9.6+"? What do you mean by that? Launching older emuNAND on 9.6+ FIRM? Because that works just fine. In fact, most CFW use one FIRM version regardless of emuNAND firmware.

I meant we can't launch a newer than 9.6 emunand with older than 9.6 firm.

 

[TheReturningVoid]

Might I suggest if you want something like CakesFW, checking out Corbenik. I have been using it since launch and honestly will never turn back from it!

Can vouch for Corbenik also, it's my main CFW and I love it. Definitely not for noobs or people who don't know what they're doing though.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Yes, and the minor revision update already happened in 11.0, which you clearly implied didn't happen: https://gbatemp.net/threads/switching-cfw-and-in-what-concerns-cheats.430783/#post-6446447 That "major change" you're talking about already happened and it's pure luck that old firmlaunches still work.

I will admit I may be wrong about that, my mistake. But you are wrong as well. What you described will only happen if and when they update one or more important system titles with a minimum kernel version flag newer than the one rxTools' FIRM is using. Since this hasn't happened yet in such a long time, it may never happen, but there is no telling, so making assumptions about it either way would be silly.

I meant we can't launch a newer than 9.6 emunand with older than 9.6 firm.

That is true on n3DS but this is due to new encryption, not due to kernel version. See: https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/NCCH#Encryption
The new encryption is the reason it took so long for people to figure out how to run 9.6+ emuNAND on a n3DS, while o3DS users were able to use the latest firmware all along. It would have taken a matter of days or weeks if it was as simple as making a version check always return true, rather than taking almost a year. Gateway has had this kernel version check patched for a long time and even they were unable to make 9.6+ firmware work on n3DS emuNAND because an exploit had to be found allowing people to dump the encryption keys. This was likely done with arm9loaderhax by whoever leaked these keys originally, though it could have been an as-of-yet-unknown exploit as well. None of the other known exploits would allow this.

It's completely false on o3DS however, as this new encryption only applies to n3DS.

 

[astronautlevel]

I will admit I may be wrong about that, my mistake. But you are wrong as well. What you described will only happen if and when they update one or more important system titles with a minimum kernel version flag newer than the one rxTools' FIRM is using. Since this hasn't happened yet in such a long time, it may never happen, but there is no telling, so making assumptions about it either way would be silly.

They have been updating the minimum kernel version check, but it's only checking for a new MINOR_REVISION, which simply hasn't happened since 9.6 and just happened in 11.0. The next time a system application is updated it will check for the new MINOR_VERSION, which will break older firmlaunches. It's how it's always worked.

That is true on n3DS but this is due to new encryption, not due to kernel version. See: https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/NCCH#Encryption

You're just flatout wrong.

The new encryption is the reason it took so long for people to figure out how to run 9.6+ emuNAND on a n3DS, while o3DS users were able to use the latest firmware all along. It would have taken a matter of days or weeks if it was as simple as making a version check always return true, rather than taking almost a year. Gateway has had this kernel version check patched for a long time and even they were unable to make 9.6+ firmware work on n3DS emuNAND because an exploit had to be found allowing people to dump the encryption keys. This was likely done with arm9loaderhax by whoever leaked these keys originally, though it could have been an as-of-yet-unknown exploit as well. None of the other known exploits would allow this.

Again you're flat out wrong. The new encryption was an added barrier, but we still didn't launch an older firmware. You're lack fundamental understanding of how the 3ds system works and before you try to lecture me about it I'd advise you go back to 3dbrew and read more.

It's completely false on o3DS however, as this new encryption only applies to n3DS.

There's an easy way to prove I'm right. Get a decrypted 9.2 FIRM and try to use it on an EmuNAND that's newer than 9.6 on an o3ds (make sure you use an older version of ARN that doesn't load from CTRNAND). Spoilers: It won't work, because you're completely incorrect.

If you refuse to listen to what I'm telling you then you'll never learn anything new. tl;dr: stop drowning out what I'm saying and listen for once.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

They have been updating the minimum kernel version check, but it's only checking for a new MINOR_REVISION, which simply hasn't happened since 9.6 and just happened in 11.0. The next time a system application is updated it will check for the new MINOR_VERSION, which will break older firmlaunches. It's how it's always worked.

I will admit my mistake in this.

You're just flatout wrong.

Did you even read the paragraph I linked? I assume not.

Again you're flat out wrong. The new encryption was an added barrier, but we still didn't launch an older firmware. You're lack fundamental understanding of how the 3ds system works and before you try to lecture me about it I'd advise you go back to 3dbrew and read more.

I'm not talking about launching older firmware, I'm talking about what you mentioned, which was launching a 9.6+ emuNAND with <= 9.5 FIRM (I will ignore the minor mistake in saying "newer than 9.6+ emunand" since I think you know that it's 9.6+, including 9.6)
For the record: FIRM != firmware

None of what you said in that paragraph contradicts the paragraph you quoted so I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to prove with it.

And I have a reasonably good understanding of how the 3DS system works - it's nothing compared to some of the active devs in the scene, but I do spend hours every day helping people with 3DS hacking and 3DS related problems, and have spent a fair amount of time reading 3DBrew and other related sites, as well as doing some very minor 3DS coding of myself. I couldn't code a 3DS CFW myself from scratch without spending a significant time researching and asking questions and I'm not claiming that I can but I do try to stay on top of new exploits and progress in the 3DS scene.

I actually spent most of the time from your posting to this reply (and the same for my last reply) checking my facts to make sure I got it all right, but some things are not that easy to verify and I could have missed something.

I'm not going to claim that I can't be wrong, or that I never make mistakes - we all do. That doesn't mean I'm a complete idiot though. So far this is all just hearsay - you have provided nothing to back up your claims, so I'm not inclined to trust it, that's all. I am at least making an effort to back up mine.

There's an easy way to prove I'm right. Get a decrypted 9.2 FIRM and try to use it on an EmuNAND that's newer than 9.6 on an o3ds (make sure you use an older version of ARN that doesn't load from CTRNAND). Spoilers: It won't work, because you're completely incorrect.

I don't know of any CFW that will actually accept a 9.2 FIRM nowadays, but if you can link me a specific build I'll gladly try it out just to end this pointless argument, whether I'm right or wrong. I don't really care anymore.

If you refuse to listen to what I'm telling you then you'll never learn anything new. tl;dr: stop drowning out what I'm saying and listen for once.

I'm not just reading your posts, I'm also actively checking Google and 3DBrew before posting anything I write, and trying my best to not post incorrect information, but like I said, I could get the facts wrong sometimes though I try my best. I learn new things every day both about the 3DS and in general, often for no other reason than curiosity and wanting to learn something new.
Until you back up your claims with some facts though I am not going to just trust them.

 

[Suiginou]

There's an easy way to prove I'm right. Get a decrypted 9.2 FIRM and try to use it on an EmuNAND that's newer than 9.6 on an o3ds (make sure you use an older version of ARN that doesn't load from CTRNAND). Spoilers: It won't work, because you're completely incorrect.

Please be aware that 9.6+ system titles do not use any new 9.6+ crypto, you can't use that excuse.

I don't know of any CFW that will actually accept a 9.2 FIRM nowadays, but if you can link me a specific build I'll gladly try it out just to end this pointless argument, whether I'm right or wrong. I don't really care anymore.

Cakes accepts a 9.2 FW.

 

[astronautlevel]

I will admit my mistake in this.

Did you even read the paragraph I linked? I assume not.

I'm not talking about launching older firmware, I'm talking about what you mentioned, which was launching a 9.6+ emuNAND with <= 9.5 FIRM (I will ignore the minor mistake in saying "newer than 9.6+ emunand" since I think you know that it's 9.6+, including 9.6)
For the record: FIRM != firmware

None of what you said in that paragraph contradicts the paragraph you quoted so I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to prove with it.

And I have a reasonably good understanding of how the 3DS system works - it's nothing compared to some of the active devs in the scene, but I do spend hours every day helping people with 3DS hacking and 3DS related problems, and have spent a fair amount of time reading 3DBrew and other related sites, as well as doing some very minor 3DS coding of myself. I couldn't code a 3DS CFW myself from scratch without spending a significant time researching and asking questions and I'm not claiming that I can but I do try to stay on top of new exploits and progress in the 3DS scene.

I actually spent most of the time from your posting to this reply (and the same for my last reply) checking my facts to make sure I got it all right, but some things are not that easy to verify and I could have missed something.

I'm not going to claim that I can't be wrong, or that I never make mistakes - we all do. That doesn't mean I'm a complete idiot though. So far this is all just hearsay - you have provided nothing to back up your claims, so I'm not inclined to trust it, that's all. I am at least making an effort to back up mine.


I don't know of any CFW that will actually accept a 9.2 FIRM nowadays, but if you can link me a specific build I'll gladly try it out just to end this pointless argument, whether I'm right or wrong. I don't really care anymore.

I'm not just reading your posts, I'm also actively checking Google and 3DBrew before posting anything I write, and trying my best to not post incorrect information, but like I said, I could get the facts wrong sometimes though I try my best. I learn new things every day both about the 3DS and in general, often for no other reason than curiosity and wanting to learn something new.
Until you back up your claims with some facts though I am not going to just trust them.

I'm tired of this argument, but if you need proof that I'm right, maybe you'll believe Rei: https://gbatemp.net/threads/source-release-reinand-cfw.394309/page-269#post-6357784

If you still won't believe me I'll pick this back up again tomorrow (or later today where I am)