Support Nintendo Homebrew on Stack Exchange!

Discussion in 'Wii U - Hacking & Backup Loaders' started by jv110, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    Wouldn't it be nice if we could ask questions about homebrew programming when we're stuck?

    Of course yes, so I've created a proposal here. Follow it!

    Click on the "Follow It!" button.
    Optionally, also upvote the example questions and create your own.
     
    Last edited by jv110, Jul 31, 2016


  2. CJB100

    CJB100 Programmer, Media Producer, Hardware Repair

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    I definitely like this idea, but why not here? I definitely would like this here because there are programmers and developers here I could learn from, and I've been trying to learn about Wii U coding for a couple days now and there are certain things that are very difficult to wrap my head around. @Cyan, @raulpica, @FIX94, is it possible to get a Developer subforum in Nintendo Wii U Discussions forum if there is enough demand for it? I see developers becoming attracted to the Wii U soon, especially if we get more news of progress on IOSU exploits.
     
  3. QuarkTheAwesome

    QuarkTheAwesome Working for Hugs

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    Something like this? We've been pushing for a while, all I've really seen happen is Cyan saying it might be nice.
     
  4. CJB100

    CJB100 Programmer, Media Producer, Hardware Repair

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    Haha well yes. How did I not see that? Is it posted in this forum? I voted yes btw.
     
  5. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    Mainly because this is a forum, a place to release stuff, discuss and occasionally ask very important questions.
    A Q&A site, on the other hand, is more organized with things like tags and voting and it's more suited to simpler questions.

    BTW, a subforum for it would also be nice, but Stack Exchange would be even better.
     
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  6. CJB100

    CJB100 Programmer, Media Producer, Hardware Repair

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    I agree sort of I guess. Honestly, sites like Stack Exchange or Stack Overflow are really just forums where the more liked posts actually rise to the top near the OP. Some of them may have some built in tools to display what the output of code may be, but that's irrelevant since we aren't going to get that with the Wii U without tons of emulation programming that just isn't productive for niche development like this.
     
  7. shinyquagsire23

    shinyquagsire23 SALT/Sm4sh Leak Guy

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    The 3DS section definitely needs a rework, half of it is just people asking questions about custom firmware. I'd love for a releases section with stricter rules along with a general section.
     
  8. brienj

    brienj Trying to avoid getting cancer

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    We've been asking and asking to structure the Wii U section like the Wii and 3DS sections, which both have a separate section for Homebrew and Emulation. I keep trying to make emulators as fast as I can, so they'll hopefully consider it.
     
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  9. QuarkTheAwesome

    QuarkTheAwesome Working for Hugs

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    Isn't there a dedicated CFW section? I assume the moderators just don't get the time to constantly sort the section - there should be a Section Moderator or something who only has power in the 3DS section (I was kinda surprised these don't exist after seeing "Global Moderators") and make it entirely their problem. I'd happy apply for such a position in the Wii U section, I'm sure someone would do the same for the 3DS.

    I wish it was that simple.
     
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  10. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Curious.
    At first pass I was reminded of those attempts to make a facebook group for things, this despite the forums existing.

    I saw something similar for ROM hacking the other day as well with people wanting to set up such a tag/whatever on the stackexchange site.

    This might actually have some merit even though I am certainly not inclined to put any effort in (if I thought it was bad I would frustrate the efforts). Then again I don't have the greatest fondness for things like Stack Exchange, Quora, Reddit and Spiceworks. I may also be an old curmudgeon way before my time.

    Similarly the WIi U and 3ds are dead, not happening and not likely to change. I would like to see them hacked, however the list of compelling reasons beyond "hacking is cool" is rather thin on the ground. Such a thing also somewhat adequately explains the malaise enjoyed by the respective hacking scenes, more than any lack of central point of focus/commonality anyway.
     
  11. shaneod

    shaneod GBAtemp Fan

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    The 3ds is anything but dead, and has plenty of hacks and homebrew. Am I misunderstanding?
     
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  12. CJB100

    CJB100 Programmer, Media Producer, Hardware Repair

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    I will never understand why people shit on hacking communities just because they arent the Wii, Xbox or PSP. That's pretty much your argument, that because there aren't that many activities going on, its dead. There aren't that many activities going on because it is still relatively difficult to program for the console. Many people, @brienj, @QuarkTheAwesome, @CreeperMario and way more are doing a lot to remedy this, but it takes time. The Wii U still has nearly a year of life left on it. If we can get even a small fraction of applications rolling on it -- with or without IOSU -- the hacking community for it will grow well into the NX's life. People still hack Xboxes, PSPs and Wiis. The Wii U and especially the 3DS are no different.
     
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  13. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    The Wii was released in 2006 and it's already more than dead, and it's still being hacked.
     
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  14. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    It appears I am saying things some might not like to hear.

    Hack and mod anything you like, I certainly do. You want to write cool code that nobody doing a business will think to do, port old games and make emulators for other games to be played on modern devices? We will likely get on famously.
    However the big incentives for hacking for homebrew on the earlier Nintendo handhelds and other home consoles was because they were a genuinely good way to have stuff on the go or stuff on your TV. Today there are far far better options with more potential right out of the box, possibly for cheaper and with things already there, to say nothing of my TV having far more flexible inputs and resolutions.
    "because they are hard to program for", sure compared to the nice Java and C family stuff or the dozens of interpreted languages of android and things like the raspberry pi, or a £50 small form PC and all of comparable or superior processing.
    Overcoming that I guess would be technically possible but again we are lacking incentive.

    If measuring the homebrew worth of a device by activity, potential and results is not a valid thing to do then I have gone wrong in many places, which I don't think I have. Equally "the 3ds and wii u are no different?", that would be the results part of the list of the previous sentence. For the xbox or the wii or the psp you could have a top notch emulation station in 25 minutes + time to copy the ROMs (and possibly download AID in the case of the xbox), and prior to the rise of H264 and streaming services then world beating media player in the case of the xbox. Those are the main reasons people still hack the devices in question. There is something to be said for the 3ds having big boy button controls vs buying a bluetooth controller but not much.

    On the matter of the 3ds I was more talking about 3ds games -- from release to today if I add on eshop duplicates I am just over 2000 games by some measures (advanscene release list), a comparable length of time on the DS sees you are maybe 5000. Maybe it is all shovelware you say (as if the 3ds library is gem after gem), that is fine but loads of the devs playing in the DS world have gone andrios for loads of things I liked on the 3ds. 3ds homebrew is nothing like it was on the DS, and we already saw the DS and what then remained of the PSP dry up when IOS arose (which android has now pushed aside). If homebrew = emulators I guess there is a tiny but, however as I am still seeing people genuinely do VC injection for 16 bit and older consoles or equivalent handhelds. I am somewhat impressed by 3ds custom firmwares getting their act together after running around like a headless anti piracy chicken for a long while there, however it is not enough for me to want to note.
    Dead might have been harsh, it ain't healthy though.
     
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  15. CJB100

    CJB100 Programmer, Media Producer, Hardware Repair

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    Just because you are lacking incentive, does not mean the same of other people.


    Why not measure the homebrew worth of a device by its potential, because whether you like to admit it or not..


    This was definitely not always the case. You have a bit of flawed logic going on here, and the 3DS scene itself is proving my point. Yes, there is currently not a ton going on with 3DS, but its essentially been swung wide open for developers now, and you are starting to see homebrew for it.

    In the case of the PSP and Wii, these were not overnight homebrew communities. They took a long time to start up, too, and I remember because I may not have been active here on this forum, but I was very into the Wii hacking scene. The difference you are seeing is that where these consoles saw homebrew take off only a few years into their life cycle, the Wii U and 3DS are much slower in development. The same could have been said for the XBOX, where the majority of homebrew came out around 2004, and the console launched in 2001, and discontinued in 2005.


    This, I will heartily agree with.
     
    Last edited by CJB100, Jul 30, 2016
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  16. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    I don't think anybody cares anyway. This is a (sub?)forum for people who do like Wii U homebrewing. If you don't like it, then it's fine, don't come over here.

    And oh, there's something better to program on? Even better. It's fun af to work on the Wii U, specially when it's such a small community.

    It's nice to make stuff knowing that people will see it. By publishing normally, nobody will care. It will just be another program in the middle of many others.
     
    Last edited by jv110, Jul 30, 2016
  17. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    I actually don't lack incentive, my reasons for anything like this is usually "why not?". I was going by what we have seen in multiple instances of homebrew communities/scenes prior to now, and not just the xbox, wii, PSP, GBA and DS.

    You fear I might be unintentionally introducing a catch 22 type arrangement (no devs so no devs come in, and possibly even hindering build it and they will come)? The comment was more addressing the "people still hack them today" and yeah they do -- pick one up for nothing at a car boot sale and you can do very nicely, and probably easier than setting up a raspberry pi or if you are plundering an old game library then it is a really nice perk. If you are looking at setting such a thing up then barring one of those wii u fire sales the wii u is not an attractive proposition for it, possibly even if it did have a solid homebrew base.

    On potential.
    The 3ds is a sub GHz older ARM device with comparatively weak 3d, low memory, passable storage if you count the SDHC cards, bad IO (no usb, no bluetooth, no external breakouts...), sub par networking, not very nice screens and likely always a crappy development environment if you consider Nintendo does not care for it.
    It has buttons by default though I guess.

    edit. Missed a reply. "this is a forum those which like"
    No, not at all. It is a forum to discuss it. If you are going to be disruptive or categorically opposed because hacking is bad then yeah you will probably be shown the door. You don't have to be endlessly positive though.
     
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  18. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    It's FUN. Deal with it.
     
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  19. brienj

    brienj Trying to avoid getting cancer

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    The Wii U and even the 3DS have something that almost every other console does not have, dual screens. This opens up the possibility of some interesting uses for those dual screens, and I've heard several ideas on how to take advantage of the dual screens. Also, the Wii U is more capable than most people give it credit for.
     
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  20. jv110
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    jv110 Advanced Member

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    You are completely missing the point. It's fun 1- because you have to deal with the limitations of homebrew 2- because there's a small community 3- because it's fun and idk how to explain. If potential was the question, I could get a high-end PC and code right away, but that's boring as hell and there are too many people on the subject, which means you probably won't get help and you will definitely not get known.

    BTW brienj, 666 messages. Nice.
     
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