State of the GBA / DS Scene

[BlueStar]

I do miss the intros mind

I used to love the awesome 'tros on releases by eurasia, cpl, dcs....

Hope we start to see them in the DS scene soon.

 

[daRealist]

We aren't as rom oriented as some people like yourself may believe. A large proportion of the forum revolves around general gaming and off topic discussion, then we have the odd tournament and whatnot. We certainly don't encourage people to pirate games we come down pretty heavy on anyone requesting warez.
Information regarding backup units is available everywhere, from general gaming forums to wikipedia, GBAtemp just documents it a lot better. As you know the devices aren't illegal and not everyone uses them for illegal purposes; some people visit the site who are developing homebrew and need recommendations, some just want to know about the devices for emulation or multimedia playback and a couple of visitors have even been people from small companies interested in making commercial games.

I don't see how you can say gbatemp doesn't encourange people to pirate games. Probably 80% of the news posts on the front page are rom releases. Lets be honest here instead of just parroting what the forum rules say. It is a small minority of visitors here that come for information about homebrew.

Additionally, don't be so confident that those flash cards are legal, because from my understanding of law in the United States, I conclude they are not. Read the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) or take a look at the old Sega vs. Accolade lawsuit about unlicensed cartridges. Or look back at when Nintendo cracked down on Bung for making GBC flash carts ... If you understand the way these cartridges work from a technical standpoint, you'd understand why they automatically break copyright laws by the way they function.

If flash cards are legal, why don't we ever see 3rd party companies producing their own cartridges to avoid the costs associated with having Nintendo manufacture them?

 

[jumpman17]

I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM. Sure there are the people that always post "Where can I download this?" and "What settings do I set this on for it to work on my Supercard?" but there is also legit discussion on the game as what it is, a game. People discuss levels and how to get past certain sections. They discuss what they like and/or dislike about the game.

 

[daRealist]

I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM. Sure there are the people that always post "Where can I download this?" and "What settings do I set this on for it to work on my Supercard?" but there is also legit discussion on the game as what it is, a game. People discuss levels and how to get past certain sections. They discuss what they like and/or dislike about the game.

If gbatemp really isn't about rom releases and piracy, then the news on the front page should be changed. Perhaps just list game titles as they are released in stores ... For example, the odds of someone having purchased Madden 07 for DS at this point is pretty low considering it's not available in stores until tomorrow. It is implied that everyone is talking about playing the pirated version of the game since they are responding to the annoucement of a rom release (not a game's release in stores).

I find it troubling that so many members of the gbatemp staff cannot admit to themselves that gbatemp.net is a "community" centered around piracy. When it comes down to it, if the rom releases weren't posted as news here, you would lose the majority of your audience.

 

[ds6220]

I have been turning it over and over in my mind for a bit and I thought I would share my useless opinions. First of all, this whole topic makes me feel like daddy just smacked mommy at the dinner table. I think a lot of us feel SOMETHING, but we are not really sure what. I am so very new the GBATemp community but I realize one thing, it is a community. We do not all have to get along and we do not even have to share points of view. The amazing thing about communities like this is that there are folks from all over the world and folks of all ages here. THAT is what this place is really about. We have all gathered because one way or another we have latched on to this ...... what?......hobby? let's face it, H.G. Wells wrote about it but no one has figured out how to go back in time yet (good thing too if I have learned anything from Marty McFly) so the more we all whine about the good old days (I built a MAME cabinet because I wanted to play true Space Invaders and Crazy Kong in my basement) the more we sound like my Grandfather that apparently had to kill wolverines on his way to school. Today we have cars with lasers to help with the wolverines and we have PS2 compilation disks with Space Invaders. It happens because we are an anxious society (I can only speak for us Americans) and need to keep moving forward. I know this has already been said a bunch of times from the fine folks here but if I can access the internet with my freakin' phone, why should I long for the days I had to dial into my ISP let alone the big modems you would have to put your phone on so you could play chess with WOPER. Lets all take a big breath, step back and realize that, yes, with out those brave pioneers we would not be where we are today, but without the hard work and innovative thinking of the game developers, there would be nothing to........well, you know. My thanks go out to everyone in the 40,000 (not 30,000) strong that has helped anyone within this group. You don't have to release a game to be helpful here and knowledge is not in short supply. No need to horde it. That is elitist thinking. Educate those looking for answers. That is all. It really is that simple.

 

[daRealist]

What's happened here is that all the moderators and admins have gotten famous off the work of other people (the release groups).
I still don't get this part though. Why are you saying that we "have gotten famous"? You told me the same thing last time and I still don't know what you mean by famous. Members of GBAtemp probably know me because I post news and because I administrate the site. But who else knows me or shaunj66? I don't know, and I don't care. I am running this site with my mates just for fun (not only for my own pleasure because believe me it wasn't always easy, but for people's pleasure and to keep people informed).

I wish you scene guys were more famous and that people would acknowledge your work, because what I/GBAtemp has done is nothing compared to what the scene has done.
I sincerely wish to change things and will be open to any suggestion as long as it doesn't interfere with the interests of GBAtemp.

Ever go to some sports event and look at how many people fill the stands? 40,000 maybe? My point is that you have a large and captive audience who are reliant upon you for the news (of the scene's releases). In this small arena that is the handheld scene you are a celebrity. The people who compose the groups can't attract such attention because they are involved in activities which must remain secret. This website blows open the doors on the secrecy and puts everything possible in public view.

I am personally very annoyed that there is some supposed anti-piracy stance taken by gbatemp as a whole. It's ridiculous and that's an understatement. At least be intellectually honest with yourself, there's one thing to take a position for legal reasons, it's another thing to believe your own bullshit. If you believe that this site is more than just news about piracy than make it so, please. Post news about homebrew and all of the developements in the homebrew community. In my opinion an update to an app like DSOrganize is at least as important as some totally unplayable japanese game, I think you would agree also.

For the record, I don't really hate gbatemp ... I come here to read people's opinions and other things on a daily basis. I just wish it was more true to itself and that the members of this forum would show a tiny bit of respect to the groups that make these releases possible.

Thank you for being reasonable about this topic, I honestly appreciate it.

 

[tshu]

I have to agree with the suggestion that GBAtemp should post news on Homebrew more often. It would be great to go to GBAtemp for up to date info on not only the latest roms, but also the latest applications like DSOrganise, etc.

 

[ceraphis]

I guess I'm a n00b or whatnot in the grand scheme of things, I've only been aware of how easily accessible flashcards are since early this year, and I feel like I've come a long way. Before that, around this time last year, I got into hacking my PS2, then the easily hackable PSP, and then PSO-exploiting the Gamecube, then it was on to the DS.

By far my favorite so far has been the DS and exploring the different features of the (currently, and IMO) big three flashcards: SC, M3, and G6.

The DS also got me into reading blogs like kotaku and frequenting the GBATemp forums, even posting my stupid thoughts from time to time like this post because I wanted to actually discuss something with people who had the same interests and knowledge as me instead of my real life friends who make fun of dumb/cute/silly yet frighteningly addictive games like pokemon and think applying a crack to a computer game is shoving the CD up your ass. But, I digress.

I could post my own opinions on this scene debate, but anything I say is worthless given that I'm 21 and "true sceners" seem to be in their thirties or older and my only knowledge about "the scene" comes from hearsay and wikipedia.

I will say this, however. I like GBAtemp. I don't remember when I first visited here, but I've enjoyed all the time I've spent here and the knowledge that this site has provided me. And maybe I'm just easily impressed but I've come to respect shaun/costello/whoever has a thousand posts or more when they post their thoughts, because I'm here at their website/forum that I come to so very often looking for knowledge, and I (usually) leave with the knowledge I was searching for.

When it comes to roms, supporting piracy, and whatnot, all GBAtemp seems to do or want to do is just provide the knowledge about the latest dumps reported to work. If there was TV or radio back when pirates raped/pillaged the latest European Port, would you say CBS is supporting piracy by reporting it on the 10 o'clock news? So what if pirates are doing the reporting, working for CBS to pay the bills while they're not pillaging, they're still not giving you a pretty young wench to download and have your way with.

Who says the scene is dead? I think "the scene" is subjective. One person may fondly remember the "BBS days" or the XboardZ or whatever, but I wasn't born then.

GBAtemp is my "scene". Don't change it, it's fine the way it is.

 

[BlueStar]

If I'm honest, I much preferred things the way they were during the GBC days (Although that's possibly because back then I had a lot more time on my hands, did what I could to help out and got access to some nice places, got to talk to some of the people in the scene who've already been mentioned). But you can't really blame communities like GBATemp for how the scene is at the moment. If people involved in the console scene in the past want it back like it was, they need to start getting their hands on games before webgroups and start coding intros and tools for the DS. And seeing as I'm in no position to do that myself at the moment, I guess I'm not in a position to complain about it either.

 

[ReyVGM]

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Dirtie]

I find it troubling that so many members of the gbatemp staff cannot admit to themselves that gbatemp.net is a "community" centered around piracy. When it comes down to it, if the rom releases weren't posted as news here, you would lose the majority of your audience.

What are you talking about? Of course it is, and we all know that. That being said we don't condone it of course, we just report the latest rom dumps and such. GBAtemp started out as a http rom hosting site - that's a far cry from what it is now of course, it has become a community of people interested in handhelds and extends a lot further than piracy information, even if that is what it is "centered" around.

As far as your first post goes, I do agree with most of it, but you must understand it is a natural progression, no matter how much of a shame it is. Technology is always being progressed, ways of delivering data are constantly evolving, emulators allow people to play games perfectly, and unfortunately this has lead to an influx of people that take things for granted, and even believe that the people in the scene actually owe them what they want - the lack of respect is astounding. But with the availability of flash carts, easy access to any illegal rom dump you want through a variety of methods, there is no way of stopping it.

Of course these reasons also contributed to the downfall of intros - people with no sense of respect or how the scene worked frowned upon intros as being unnecessary, and even bashed groups because of it, and since any average joe with an easily available flash cart could now dump a game perfectly and intro-free there was no point in even bothering anymore.

Yes there is no respect, yes the sense of community within the scene is probably almost non-existant compared with the BBS days (not that I was around then), but it is the natural progression of things, however disappointing, and it's best just to accept that, because nothing is going to change any time soon. Of course there is nothing wrong with reminiscing, and you have provided some insightful thoughts

Back to the GBAtemp site itself though, you are absolutely correct about some of the members just whining about things and letting their greed and impatience get the best of them, but far from trying to encourage this sort of behaviour we try to discourage it as much as possible, and we have rules and guidelines set in place to help our cause as much as possible.

Edit: After bothering to read the rest of the thread I realise I've just reiterated what's already been said, oh well

 

[retrohead]

Everyone i know comes to GBAtemp for rom dumps and flash cart information nothing else. Even with GBAtemp posting information on roms 80% of the time the slowest, they still keep coming. Homebrew has a different scene to the commercial side and i think you will find that is where the real sceners live, not here.

GBAtemp is more about talking crap in the forums than the actual "scene". GBAfaq is more like what the site should be called.

I personally would find it insulting if GBAtemp started posting homebrew news. I would see it as the staff admitting failure and grasping at straws trying to save the site, which unfortunately i feel has been going on for the last 6 months anyway. With promises of new features and things to be added with not much actually provided.

GBAtemp has grown beyond anyones control imo. It is now an entity of it's own and someone needs to grab those reins and get the beast under control before it becomes GameFAQs.

This thread has been a great read and actually echoes all my feelings i have had for the whole of 2006. I'm glad to see other people are starting to notice oddities

 

[KroBa]

Together we stand, divided we fall.

Pink Floyd, brother. o/

 

[akito]

GBAtemp is the scene, in it's current form.

now that made me laugh, but anyways.

GBATemp only gained popularity when it hosted roms via HTTP or via their IRC channel. Otherwise no one even has a reason to come here.

So you ask why am I here. Why have I been a super duper awesome forum member since 2002. Sometimes I just need a dose of make believe and you guys playing " scene thugs" (WRG and TRM) makes me almost shit my self laughing.

Back to the reason for this post;

What our friend from CPL was trying to say, GBATemp made the scene less intimate and open to everyone. Which took out all the fun.

My personal experience was my nice run as LuBE. Yes, that nice group that brought you games with no competition! If you remember it was pretty much two months straight of USA first releases. Why did I stop? Mostly because I was bored. When you are the only person, who can you share your victories with? Who can you celebrate with? Why was there only one person, because I did not need anyone to make graphics, hell there was no time to code trainers or intros. The people demanded their games NOW, there was no appreciation for such things.

Bottom line before it was about flare, character and personality. Now its just about GiMMiE GiMMiE. I bring forth the name “Generation GiMMiE.”


P.S.

If you boil it down GBATemp is just a PocketHeaven rip off. It only gained popularity when it hosted roms via HTTP or via their IRC channel. Sure you have your 30,000 members but at least the 2700 forum members PH has give back in one way or another. Enjoy your free swag. If you need me I will be lurking back in the 90s where the scene left me behind.

R.I.P Handhelds Scene .. even thou I never knew you at all.

 

[SSJ3Radditz]

It's not just the Handheld scene that's changed, it's all of them. I believe the culprit is that it's all become less personal. You have fewer people trying to translate games anymore, and fewer people releasing games, and all that. Screw everybody, people should start throwing intros in again. Even if they were kind of annoying, at least there would be a personal touch to things again. I don't think anyone is truly to blame, except for the apparent relative ease as to which releases can be aquired, when it was a little harder to get something, there was more of an actual 'community', I think. Oh well.

It will never truly die, as long as handheld systems are rediculously easy to crack and trick into playing ROMs. And I think Nintendo and Sony and all the rest leave it juuuust easy enough on purpose. So everybody needs to relax, stop blaming thy fellow man, and get into a more friendly frame of mind. Or something. Some of us still respect those of you that give us things for free, so take heart in that, at least.

 

[FAST6191]

I was not going to reply at first but I guess I will now I have had a few hours to think it all over and form some coherent thoughts, the end result may be lacking somewhat in length but hopefully it will convey my thoughts.

First up I completely disagree with the original poster, sure releases on the GBA have slowed down (the console is coming to the end of it's life after all) but many things are still happening:
For instance a bunch of high profile, high quality translations are nearing completion/coming along very nicely:
Fire emblem: http://community.livejournal.com/dtn_fe6trans/
Gyakuten Saiban/Phoenix wright
http://comebackcourt.sourceforge.net/ and Mother 3 to name but a few, there are many more interesting GBA hacks and translations floating around too if you look but these are three good examples.

So releases/release groups are an important part of the "scene" sure but many seem quick to forget they are not the only thing that make it up, sure the groups are less personal than Amiga/Snes/C64 days but since the MPAA/RIAA and other fun groups like that (does anyone know who, if anyone, does roms/isos of games by the way?) are now sporting, and all too eager to use: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/13/ri...amilitary_garb/ , black ops teams who can blame them (saying this a fair few anime groups are still pretty personal/high profile so I am tempted to say release groups are not even making the effort).
Oh yeah no person has yet mentioned trashman, sure they may not be a "group" in the strictest (insert snide remark about elitist types here) sense of the word but they are responsible for a fair deal.

As for homebrew, the DS has seen some wonderful things and the GBA has not been bad either.
One thing to remember the roms from the older consoles are still illegal so not all homebrew is unquestionably legal: copyright is many more years than has has passed since their release when you talk of older games.

As for the gbatemp and ilk "bringing the scene down" comment I say while I am fairly fed up of answering which cart is best (come on people do you think we would all be using different ones if there was a decisive leader), how do I play F.E.A.R. (or whatever the popular FPS of the day happens to be) on my GBA, I demand an emulator/rom released 5 mintes ago/rom of a game released 4 months from now/translation of a game from Japanese to Klingon (even if the game is out in Klingon in 2 weeks) type questions there are countless interesting posts from people all over on pretty much every subject that anyone could possibly care about. I may not have been into the "hardcore" IRC,BBS stage but (normally I got stuff from those that were so only ever got over the shoulder type glimpses) I will be damned if they could match the shear wealth of experience/diversity found in these sorts of places. Even better there are no really disparaged sites any more, places like high-society (probably not the best example but still, places like gameboy-advance.net exceptyed).

Sidenote, for anyone reading this who may be considering such a question http://anonym.to/?http://fun.drno.de/flash/posting.swf is for you (others may wish to have a look too as it is quite funny)

Which brings me on to my final point: keep intro's the hell away from me, if you want to make a demo go for it: I will keep it on my cart/computer and show it to all family/friends/random prostitutes I meet out on the street (I do genuinely have the shit faced cows demo from a little while back on my cart right now).
Code a trainer and stick a nice intro on that by all means too.

Then again this is just my opinion, others may (and going by this thread do) have others.

To end I shall quote Trashman's NFO: "for teh gamers, fuck teh lamers"

 

[Psyfira]

I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM.

You mean "what they like or dislike about this game they downloaded". Which they downloaded cause we told them the rom index number to look for. Come on, all of these discussions start when the roms are "released" and people download them to give the game a spin and see what it's like. Very few of these discussions take place after someone played or brought a legit version of the game, and those that do are usually because of delayed release dates in different territories. I'm not saying that people never buy the game, but the magazine forum discussions, despite being about the game content, hinge around the downloaded rom release dates.

I'm not saying it's rubbish; heck I hang around on this forum a lot. Just stop deluding yourselves. This site hinges around flashcarts with a lot of discussion of commercial games and very little of homebrew and self-development. You do the math.


[Edit] Actually this is slightly off-topic; placed in the middle of this thread it looks like another attack on GBATemp, which kinda doesn't apply seeing as the "scene" condones piracy as well. Apologies for the wandering.

 

[Lily]

Together we stand, divided we fall.

How true.

Any of us that were around back in the old days pine for the old days. They were better because of the amazing social contact that this "Web 2.0" garbage will never replace, and they were better because we're older now and nostalgia's a bitch. Too many people have faded away that I've never heard from again, and it's a shame. They're probably still out there, but through handle changes, growing up and drifting apart, who knows - we may still talk to each other and just don't know it.

As to all the ballyhoo about GBAtemp - GBAtemp simply embodies a community, a new community of people. They aren't the sceners of old, though some of them are here while mostly keeping their mouths shut, and surf this place more for the entertainment value than the value to the current scene. Some current scene members are here too, and speak up mainly in topics such as this, where the gigantic amount of BS can be smelled in every crack, crevace and corner of the web. However, this was never a community of sceners, even if some old, some new and some retired come by or not. GBAtemp provides information - information on roms, information on flashcarts, and information in general to the new community. If GBAtemp were to disappear tomorrow, another GBAtemp would spring forth to take its place. The importance of the community becomes stronger than GBAtemp itself. Someone will always step up and centralize the community for the masses that demand it. If there were no interest in the GBAtemp community, GBAtemp would have floundered and fallen long ago. The people that only cared about the rom downloads took off in 2002. I certainly wouldn't call any of the staff here famous, they simply do what they can until they get tired of it, or life commitments take them elsewhere. Providing information to a community that demands everything for free -right now- is just as tiring and as thankless as the folks in the scene who still try and give us some pre's, and regardless, still provide us with the meat that makes the whole dinner here a possibility. It's near sacriledge to compare the two, but there's no denying that the same leechers downloading roms are the same leechers of information - with the same unreasonable demands. GBAtemp needs the scene to survive - if there were no scene, there would be no GBAtemp in its current form. Of course GBAtemp is the very embodiment of open piracy advocacy, with the hypocrisy of the rules centered around maintaining the community's 'online' status. That's the box that had to be opened to have the community that provides the information.

Does GBAtemp embody the death of the scene? No. GBAtemp is an answer to changes in technology, changes in social contact, and the widespread adoption of the internet that just wasn't possible or available in the old scene days. GBAtemp embodies the new demands that have been placed with new technology. GBAtemp allows people outside the scene to contribute to their community - the moderators here do a fair job of reviewing available hardware, and the members help each other make it all work. GBAtemp doesn't piss on the scene. GBAtemp works outside of it to bring things to users who otherwise wouldn't be a part of anything.

Whether or not that's a good or a bad thing is a personal decision on your own moral compass. As I said, I don't think GBAtemp pisses on the scene. I also don't think it shows the proper respect to the scene that provides the very reason for its existence either, but I don't think it pisses on it. It's a different environment for different people centered around a common interest that both 'sides' if you will share. Again, as I said earlier - if it wasn't GBAtemp, it would have been another site, and if GBAtemp dies, there will be another site. The internet as it stands today has brought demand for the community you're posting in.

There are a lot of really great points in this thead, and a lot of it makes me evaluate my role in the whole process. I never would have imagined that people would have been -upset- about what we do here, but hearing other sides to the story really makes me sit back and think.

 

[daRealist]

First up I completely disagree with the original poster, sure releases on the GBA have slowed down (the console is coming to the end of it's life after all) but many things are still happening:
For instance a bunch of high profile, high quality translations are nearing completion/coming along very nicely:
Fire emblem: http://community.livejournal.com/dtn_fe6trans/
Gyakuten Saiban/Phoenix wright
http://comebackcourt.sourceforge.net/ and Mother 3 to name but a few, there are many more interesting GBA hacks and translations floating around too if you look but these are three good examples.

As for homebrew, the DS has seen some wonderful things and the GBA has not been bad either.
One thing to remember the roms from the older consoles are still illegal so not all homebrew is unquestionably legal: copyright is many more years than has has passed since their release when you talk of older games.

Which brings me on to my final point: keep intro's the hell away from me, if you want to make a demo go for it: I will keep it on my cart/computer and show it to all family/friends/random prostitutes I meet out on the street (I do genuinely have the shit faced cows demo from a little while back on my cart right now).
Code a trainer and stick a nice intro on that by all means too.

Then again this is just my opinion, others may (and going by this thread do) have others.

To end I shall quote Trashman's NFO: "for teh gamers, fuck teh lamers"

When I'm talking about the scene, I mean the warez scene. Homebrew and translations don't count towards the scene. Maybe there is a homebrew scene and translation scene, but that has nothing to do with gbatemp either. I fail to see the relevancy of the TRM quote at the end too ... Which side of the fence are you on?

 

[tshu]

Homebrew and translations don't count towards the scene. Maybe there is a homebrew scene and translation scene, but that has nothing to do with gbatemp either.

Maybe they don't count towards "the scene" but in my opinion, homebrew and translations are far more respectable than simply dumping and spreading illegal copies of commercial games. I don't understand why these people who release the commercial roms all want fame and recognition, when they aren't even creating anything original.

And I'll say it again, I wish GBAtemp would actually put some more focus on the homebrew side of things.