Homebrew RetroArch - A new multi-system emulator

[LibretroRetroArc]

k did that,
Now the black screen lasts forever, when I hard reset there is a Retroarch folder with 0 sized config file inside.
Deleted everything a second time and got same black screen

Edit1: I found that the SD is almost full,
deleted few stuff and tested again and the app launched fine from HBC

Edit2: Both Prboom and Gambatte work fine now (except for the 640x576i display bug) I can reach the settings and run the games
Also Genplus GX work fine, but some roms refuse to load or codedump but that's a rom issue not a dol issue

So yes most likely it's an issue related to using the dols as plugins with argument support
Only thing still present is the default resolution display bug

Doesn't 576i mode run at 50Hz anyways? Why would you want that? Most games that are supposed to be run at 60Hz are going to run horribly. It's always better to just use 480i/p mode than that.

I come from an European country and even I would never ever want to touch 50Hz PAL modes unless absolutely necessary and given no other option.

 

[the_randomizer]

@the_randomizer
As long as the developer has no issues with it, users are free to discuss whatever they want pertaining the emulator. It's not up to you to decide what people can or cannot talk about.

Enough off-topic, hopefully.

Well, I admit I overstepped my bounds into the level of "douche canoe" and feel horrible for having said what I said.

 

[nintygaming]

Allow me to help some of you LCD and CRT fans out.

First off, I've done more research and testing in the "Retro Games on this or that TV" category than most have (I've learned alot of things that I wish I wouldn't have), and I can honestly say that while the Wii does have 240p "double strike" support, it does not have TRUE horizontal 256 or 320 support - the Wii is fixed at 720 horizontal while it can switch between 240 and 480 vertical, thus you have ether 720x480, or 720x240 (if you want to get "real" technical, the Wii can go as low as 224 and 239 vertical, but for the sake of simplicity and fundamentalism, I'm sticking with 240p or "double strike"). So basically you ether have 240p options, or 480i/p options, but your STUCK with 720 horizontal, hence the reason why guys like ekeeke has to double the horizontal (not vertical) resolution in his standalone emulator Genesis Plus GX in order prevent the horizontal resolution from becoming stretched badly, and therefore become blurry. The Virtual Console also does this in its 240p modes. For example, Super Mario World is 256x224 natively, but the Virtual Console double's its horizontal length from 256 to 512 to reduce stretching, and in addition turns on VI Trap to reduce color bleed (via composite only). This same method is used also in Virtual Console Genesis games that are 320x224, and 320 horizontal is doubled to 640 horizontal, because if it wasn't doubled, the image would appear "soft" (due to stretching) if compared to a "Real" Genesis via RGB on the same TV. If you want to see this difference for yourselves, then open up a 224p SNES game in Retroarch, and look at the difference between 256x224 and 512x224. See the sharpness/detail decrease with 256? Why? Again, because the Wii's output is fixed at 720 horizontal and the Wii's hardware MUST "stretch" 256 to 720. If you double the 256 to 512 however via GX scaling, then the stretch is VERY MINIMAL and thus looks sharper. Try it again with NES games by this time switching between 256x240 and 512x240 or Genesis games by switching between 320x224 and 640x224.

To sum it up, the Wii is fixed at a horizontal resolution of 720, and it will stretch (NOT upscale) anything lower than 720. If you don't upscale the horizontal image of a retro game, then "fuzzy" stretching will happen. Virtual Console, Genesis Plus GX, FCE Ultra GX, and SNES9x GX utilize the GX scaler to double the horizontal image of the retro games to reduce stretching to a minimum and thus, you have a nearly perfect looking retro game (I said "nearly"....not exact), with the incredible scanlines that we all love to see (unless your on a LCD or Plasma.....see more below on that steaming pile of diarrhea).

And for you guys on HDTV's, you can forget 240p on those, because while many of them can receive a 240p signal, they CANNOT display 240p natively (if it could, it would be a teeny-tiny little square in the middle). Your HDTV will "interpret" 240p as 480i - and that's providing it can "see" 240p at all - and when it does this, it will show you the most horrible possible way to view a 240p signal (poorly upscaled, jittered, artifacts, complete mess), even if done via S-Video or RGB. Amazing enough though, some people cannot even remember what these games are "suppose" to look like on a CRT, and thus will be perfectly fine with a crappy upscaled mess that looks like pixelated horse vomit (remember, 240p games were designed ON a CRT, not a HDTV). And then to add insult to injury, you will have motion blur AND astronomically high input lag (NOT response time, INPUT LAG has nothing to do with response time! - http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq.55593/#post-2622391 - ). AND......you will NOT have ANY scanlines. The horror! BUT if you have a PS3 and a HDTV (with less than 1 frame of input lag) then you will have a decent looking AND decent playing retro option via Retroarch for PS3. But does it implement Scanlines CORRECTLY with any of its shaders? I wouldn't know. But I haven't seen any Scanline shader done correctly. In order to do Scanlines correctly, every other line of the incoming images must be separated, or left blank. But from what I've seen, most Scanline shaders COVER (not separate) every other line, hence you will have a DARKER image, and LESS of an image. If someone out there has a PROPER Scanline shader, then let me know! I wanna see it! I'm serious, PM me with it!

Bottom line is this....if your on a LCD HDTV or Plasma HDTV with a Wii, the best choice for you (or the only choice for you) in Retroarch on the Wii is simply 640x480 WITH Bilinear Filter (and VI Trap Filter if your using composite cables....and if you are using composite...may God have mercy on your LCD/Plasma).

If your however on a STANDARD DEFINITION (not HD) CRT-TUBE TV, then you will have the best results in 512x240 for the NES, and 512x224 for 99% of the SNES games, and 640x224 for 99% of the Genesis games. (don't ask me why "512" or "640" unless you truly didn't understand what I stated above)

In my opinion, if Tantric and Ekeeke can utilize 240p modes in their emulators without an issue, then I don't see why the Retroarch application cannot utilize them in the same, well-done clean manner. HOWEVER you guys need to remember that for now, these 240p modes are EXPERIMENTAL for Retroarch, and may be subject to change or removed entirely depending on how things go with LibretroRetroarc, Toad King, and Ekeeke. My honest opinion is that there should be only ONE 240p option for each "specific" emulator in regards to "Double Strike/240p". By that I mean, it should be done the same way Ekeeke or Tantric did with their "Original" modes in their GX emulators (choice between Filtered, Unfiltered, or Original), and if you load up for example, SNES9x Next 1.52.3, then you would hypothetically be given ONLY 2 Resolution choices and not freakin' 50 of them.....and those choices would simply be labeled "Double Strike" or "Interlaced" (if on a 480i display, otherwise you would have "Double Strike" or "Progressive" if on a EDTV or HDTV). The Retroarch application would have to "know" which "Double Strike" mode to choose for each specific emulator so that "Joe Blow" would not choose the wrong one or switch through them over and over again until he gets a freakin' code dump. Anyway, this is just my personal opinion on how Retroarch should (ideally anyway) handle resolution choices, and my opinion may or may not be suitable for how Retroarch is coded and therefore could be invalid entirely.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

Eke-Eke dropped us some notes on things we should be mindful of with GX video.

One thing it also explained is pertinent to the poster above who made all the screenshots about the Wii eventually crashing and how the resolution setting at 720x576 was producing garbage at the bottom).The reason was simply that EFB (the internal framebuffer has a maximum height of 528, so 576 was way out of bounds. Most of the crashes the user on PAL experienced was probably just due to that alone.

There are some other things we were doing wrong and we will correct them.

Regarding double strike - it's less clear cut. I think we should still keep in all the various 'VI width/height sizes' that you can set in RetroArch (Eke-Eke thinks it's not a good idea and could be very confusing to users and we should instead attempt to get the 'right' VI width/size for each game resolution on a per-core basis). Anyway, me and ToadKing are going to see what to do there.

In other good news - Cave Story (NXEngine) is finally beginning to work on consoles after eluding us for over a year or so (and possibly more) - the only thing left to be done is to redirect all file I/O to in-memory so that we don't experience heavy file I/O lag in the game.

 

[the_randomizer]

Allow me to help some of you LCD and CRT fans out.

First off, I've done more research and testing in the "Retro Games on this or that TV" category than most have (I've learned alot of things that I wish I wouldn't have), and I can honestly say that while the Wii does have 240p "double strike" support, it does not have TRUE horizontal 256 or 320 support - the Wii is fixed at 720 horizontal while it can switch between 240 and 480 vertical, thus you have ether 720x480, or 720x240 (if you want to get "real" technical, the Wii can go as low as 224 and 239 vertical, but for the sake of simplicity and fundamentalism, I'm sticking with 240p or "double strike"). So basically you ether have 240p options, or 480i/p options, but your STUCK with 720 horizontal, hence the reason why guys like ekeeke has to double the horizontal (not vertical) resolution in his standalone emulator Genesis Plus GX in order prevent the horizontal resolution from becoming stretched badly, and therefore become blurry. The Virtual Console also does this in its 240p modes. For example, Super Mario World is 256x224 natively, but the Virtual Console double's its horizontal length from 256 to 512 to reduce stretching, and in addition turns on VI Trap to reduce color bleed (via composite only). This same method is used also in Virtual Console Genesis games that are 320x224, and 320 horizontal is doubled to 640 horizontal, because if it wasn't doubled, the image would appear "soft" (due to stretching) if compared to a "Real" Genesis via RGB on the same TV. If you want to see this difference for yourselves, then open up a 224p SNES game in Retroarch, and look at the difference between 256x224 and 512x224. See the sharpness/detail decrease with 256? Why? Again, because the Wii's output is fixed at 720 horizontal and the Wii's hardware MUST "stretch" 256 to 720. If you double the 256 to 512 however via GX scaling, then the stretch is VERY MINIMAL and thus looks sharper. Try it again with NES games by this time switching between 256x240 and 512x240 or Genesis games by switching between 320x224 and 640x224.

To sum it up, the Wii is fixed at a horizontal resolution of 720, and it will stretch (NOT upscale) anything lower than 720. If you don't upscale the horizontal image of a retro game, then "fuzzy" stretching will happen. Virtual Console, Genesis Plus GX, FCE Ultra GX, and SNES9x GX utilize the GX scaler to double the horizontal image of the retro games to reduce stretching to a minimum and thus, you have a nearly perfect looking retro game (I said "nearly"....not exact), with the incredible scanlines that we all love to see (unless your on a LCD or Plasma.....see more below on that steaming pile of diarrhea).

And for you guys on HDTV's, you can forget 240p on those, because while many of them can receive a 240p signal, they CANNOT display 240p natively (if it could, it would be a teeny-tiny little square in the middle). Your HDTV will "interpret" 240p as 480i - and that's providing it can "see" 240p at all - and when it does this, it will show you the most horrible possible way to view a 240p signal (poorly upscaled, jittered, artifacts, complete mess), even if done via S-Video or RGB. Amazing enough though, some people cannot even remember what these games are "suppose" to look like on a CRT, and thus will be perfectly fine with a crappy upscaled mess that looks like pixelated horse vomit (remember, 240p games were designed ON a CRT, not a HDTV). And then to add insult to injury, you will have motion blur AND astronomically high input lag (NOT response time, INPUT LAG has nothing to do with response time! - http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq.55593/#post-2622391 - ). AND......you will NOT have ANY scanlines. The horror! BUT if you have a PS3 and a HDTV (with less than 1 frame of input lag) then you will have a decent looking AND decent playing retro option via Retroarch for PS3. But does it implement Scanlines CORRECTLY with any of its shaders? I wouldn't know. But I haven't seen any Scanline shader done correctly. In order to do Scanlines correctly, every other line of the incoming images must be separated, or left blank. But from what I've seen, most Scanline shaders COVER (not separate) every other line, hence you will have a DARKER image, and LESS of an image. If someone out there has a PROPER Scanline shader, then let me know! I wanna see it! I'm serious, PM me with it!

Bottom line is this....if your on a LCD HDTV or Plasma HDTV with a Wii, the best choice for you (or the only choice for you) in Retroarch on the Wii is simply 640x480 WITH Bilinear Filter (and VI Trap Filter if your using composite cables....and if you are using composite...may God have mercy on your LCD/Plasma).

If your however on a STANDARD DEFINITION (not HD) CRT-TUBE TV, then you will have the best results in 512x240 for the NES, and 512x224 for 99% of the SNES games, and 640x224 for 99% of the Genesis games. (don't ask me why "512" or "640" unless you truly didn't understand what I stated above)

In my opinion, if Tantric and Ekeeke can utilize 240p modes in their emulators without an issue, then I don't see why the Retroarch application cannot utilize them in the same, well-done clean manner. HOWEVER you guys need to remember that for now, these 240p modes are EXPERIMENTAL for Retroarch, and may be subject to change or removed entirely depending on how things go with LibretroRetroarc, Toad King, and Ekeeke. My honest opinion is that there should be only ONE 240p option for each "specific" emulator in regards to "Double Strike/240p". By that I mean, it should be done the same way Ekeeke or Tantric did with their "Original" modes in their GX emulators (choice between Filtered, Unfiltered, or Original), and if you load up for example, SNES9x Next 1.52.3, then you would hypothetically be given ONLY 2 Resolution choices and not freakin' 50 of them.....and those choices would simply be labeled "Double Strike" or "Interlaced" (if on a 480i display, otherwise you would have "Double Strike" or "Progressive" if on a EDTV or HDTV). The Retroarch application would have to "know" which "Double Strike" mode to choose for each specific emulator so that "Joe Blow" would not choose the wrong one or switch through them over and over again until he gets a freakin' code dump. Anyway, this is just my personal opinion on how Retroarch should (ideally anyway) handle resolution choices, and my opinion may or may not be suitable for how Retroarch is coded and therefore could be invalid entirely.

A very informative explanation that was sorely needed to be said. CRTs are the clear winner for old school games due to the aforementioned reasons stated, the only issues with CRTs are these; they're very unwieldy for anything >24" and hard to find. LED LCD or normal LCD TVs are probably the next best choice as Virtual Console games are "240p" upscaled to 480i without bilinear filtering, which is why they look horrible on newer screens. This is where emulators come into play, while they can't perfectly simulate the look and feel of how a CRT outputs 240p, they get pretty darn close, closer than any PC can anyway. As such, I appreciate the work that has gone into RetroArch and the efforts of the programmers responsible for porting and fixing it up. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think it possible to get S-DD1, SA1 or Super FX chip games to run full speed. They did what Nintendidn't want to do.

For old school games, nothing beats a CRT.

 

[TomR]

..

 

[MassiveRican]

Wow a lot of fabulous ideas, tomR the external app sounds cool but who would code it? Certainly not the RA team probably, I know a few talented coders out there that might take up the challenge but it would, of course, be entirely up to them.

Allow me to help some of you LCD and CRT fans out.

First off, I've done more research and testing in the "Retro Games on this or that TV" category than most have (I've learned alot of things that I wish I wouldn't have), and I can honestly say that while the Wii does have 240p "double strike" support, it does not have TRUE horizontal 256 or 320 support - the Wii is fixed at 720 horizontal while it can switch between 240 and 480 vertical, thus you have ether 720x480, or 720x240 (if you want to get "real" technical, the Wii can go as low as 224 and 239 vertical, but for the sake of simplicity and fundamentalism, I'm sticking with 240p or "double strike"). So basically you ether have 240p options, or 480i/p options, but your STUCK with 720 horizontal, hence the reason why guys like ekeeke has to double the horizontal (not vertical) resolution in his standalone emulator Genesis Plus GX in order prevent the horizontal resolution from becoming stretched badly, and therefore become blurry. The Virtual Console also does this in its 240p modes. For example, Super Mario World is 256x224 natively, but the Virtual Console double's its horizontal length from 256 to 512 to reduce stretching, and in addition turns on VI Trap to reduce color bleed (via composite only). This same method is used also in Virtual Console Genesis games that are 320x224, and 320 horizontal is doubled to 640 horizontal, because if it wasn't doubled, the image would appear "soft" (due to stretching) if compared to a "Real" Genesis via RGB on the same TV. If you want to see this difference for yourselves, then open up a 224p SNES game in Retroarch, and look at the difference between 256x224 and 512x224. See the sharpness/detail decrease with 256? Why? Again, because the Wii's output is fixed at 720 horizontal and the Wii's hardware MUST "stretch" 256 to 720. If you double the 256 to 512 however via GX scaling, then the stretch is VERY MINIMAL and thus looks sharper. Try it again with NES games by this time switching between 256x240 and 512x240 or Genesis games by switching between 320x224 and 640x224.

To sum it up, the Wii is fixed at a horizontal resolution of 720, and it will stretch (NOT upscale) anything lower than 720. If you don't upscale the horizontal image of a retro game, then "fuzzy" stretching will happen. Virtual Console, Genesis Plus GX, FCE Ultra GX, and SNES9x GX utilize the GX scaler to double the horizontal image of the retro games to reduce stretching to a minimum and thus, you have a nearly perfect looking retro game (I said "nearly"....not exact), with the incredible scanlines that we all love to see (unless your on a LCD or Plasma.....see more below on that steaming pile of diarrhea).

And for you guys on HDTV's, you can forget 240p on those, because while many of them can receive a 240p signal, they CANNOT display 240p natively (if it could, it would be a teeny-tiny little square in the middle). Your HDTV will "interpret" 240p as 480i - and that's providing it can "see" 240p at all - and when it does this, it will show you the most horrible possible way to view a 240p signal (poorly upscaled, jittered, artifacts, complete mess), even if done via S-Video or RGB. Amazing enough though, some people cannot even remember what these games are "suppose" to look like on a CRT, and thus will be perfectly fine with a crappy upscaled mess that looks like pixelated horse vomit (remember, 240p games were designed ON a CRT, not a HDTV). And then to add insult to injury, you will have motion blur AND astronomically high input lag (NOT response time, INPUT LAG has nothing to do with response time! - http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq.55593/#post-2622391 - ). AND......you will NOT have ANY scanlines. The horror! BUT if you have a PS3 and a HDTV (with less than 1 frame of input lag) then you will have a decent looking AND decent playing retro option via Retroarch for PS3. But does it implement Scanlines CORRECTLY with any of its shaders? I wouldn't know. But I haven't seen any Scanline shader done correctly. In order to do Scanlines correctly, every other line of the incoming images must be separated, or left blank. But from what I've seen, most Scanline shaders COVER (not separate) every other line, hence you will have a DARKER image, and LESS of an image. If someone out there has a PROPER Scanline shader, then let me know! I wanna see it! I'm serious, PM me with it!

Bottom line is this....if your on a LCD HDTV or Plasma HDTV with a Wii, the best choice for you (or the only choice for you) in Retroarch on the Wii is simply 640x480 WITH Bilinear Filter (and VI Trap Filter if your using composite cables....and if you are using composite...may God have mercy on your LCD/Plasma).

If your however on a STANDARD DEFINITION (not HD) CRT-TUBE TV, then you will have the best results in 512x240 for the NES, and 512x224 for 99% of the SNES games, and 640x224 for 99% of the Genesis games. (don't ask me why "512" or "640" unless you truly didn't understand what I stated above)

In my opinion, if Tantric and Ekeeke can utilize 240p modes in their emulators without an issue, then I don't see why the Retroarch application cannot utilize them in the same, well-done clean manner. HOWEVER you guys need to remember that for now, these 240p modes are EXPERIMENTAL for Retroarch, and may be subject to change or removed entirely depending on how things go with LibretroRetroarc, Toad King, and Ekeeke. My honest opinion is that there should be only ONE 240p option for each "specific" emulator in regards to "Double Strike/240p". By that I mean, it should be done the same way Ekeeke or Tantric did with their "Original" modes in their GX emulators (choice between Filtered, Unfiltered, or Original), and if you load up for example, SNES9x Next 1.52.3, then you would hypothetically be given ONLY 2 Resolution choices and not freakin' 50 of them.....and those choices would simply be labeled "Double Strike" or "Interlaced" (if on a 480i display, otherwise you would have "Double Strike" or "Progressive" if on a EDTV or HDTV). The Retroarch application would have to "know" which "Double Strike" mode to choose for each specific emulator so that "Joe Blow" would not choose the wrong one or switch through them over and over again until he gets a freakin' code dump. Anyway, this is just my personal opinion on how Retroarch should (ideally anyway) handle resolution choices, and my opinion may or may not be suitable for how Retroarch is coded and therefore could be invalid entirely.

@nintygaming that was the best post I've seen from u yet my friend lol. Seriously it was excellently explained and now I know which settings and why, I should choose to get the best picture for retro gaming. A couple of questions for u though. What do you think of flat screen crt's with component cables in 4:3 for retro gaming. I have the Wii set to EDTV 480p, 4:3, it's heavy as shit with a tube most likely but flat screen. What would u recommend for settings and would u change the resolution setting to non-EDTV to keep it 480i?

 

[the_randomizer]

Sorry to hijack, but there is a serious audio issue when using Genplus GX in RetroArch. The audio is tinny in here as well, but not in the standalone emulator, I know this for a fact and I am not imagining this. Why does it happen? I know I can switch to the separate program, but I prefer to have everything in one. I'm thinking it's how the audio is sampled in RetroArch and not a fault of Genplus GX.

Again, it's not the fault of the core, but how it's how RetroArch handles the audio output sampling.

 

[nintygaming]

@nintygaming that was the best post I've seen from u yet my friend lol. Seriously it was excellently explained and now I know which settings and why, I should choose to get the best picture for retro gaming. A couple of questions for u though. What do you think of flat screen crt's with component cables in 4:3 for retro gaming. I have the Wii set to EDTV 480p, 4:3, it's heavy as shit with a tube most likely but flat screen. What would u recommend for settings and would u change the resolution setting to non-EDTV to keep it 480i?

You have a 4:3 EDTV? I'm pretty sure that EDTV's do not have scanlines for 240p content. Although I could be wrong, but if your EDTV doesn't have scanlines, then 240p should look worse than using the 480p option. Virtual Console games are the standard to judge by because they are pseudo pixel-perfect in 480p on a EDTV due to the GX upscaling filter used within VC games, but unfortunately you will probably loose all scanlines in 480p (notice I said "probably"....unless your TV generates scanlines in 480p....does such a thing exist?). If you set it to 480i on a EDTV without scanline ability, then it "should" look worse than 480p, with jitter/vibration/flicker. Try both for VC games, then see how things look. More than likely you will have better results on VC with 480p unless your EDTV does have a true 240p scanline mode.

Ekeeke enhanced the pixel scaling ability of SNES9x GX and FCE Ultra GX for 480p as well, and it looks almost as good as the Virtual Console in 480p. So you could try that, but be sure not change the screen size (width, height) in "Unfiltered" mode otherwise it will throw off the pixels. You might want to try Retroarch in 512x448p for SNES, and 512x480p for NES, and 640x448p for Genesis for pseudo pixel-perfect upscaling, but if the aspect ratio isn't correct for these modes, then you will have a pretty crappy picture.

In the end, on a EDTV the ideal is to have scanlines. But I'm pretty sure that most - if not all - EDTV's are without scanlines, just like CRT HDTV's. What would be really cool is if they could use scanlines in 480p, that would make VC games look incredible, probably not as good as 240p on a SDTV, but pretty close. If you have a SDTV, then that's still your best best for 240p content. Your eyes however need to be the judge of this.

P.S. An EDTV has digital processing, so unlike a SDTV (analog) it will have a modern day poison known as "Input Lag" (something that never existed prior to the digital/HD era). How much would have to measured of course, but if you find your games feel a little more slippery or loose when compared to a SDTV, then you will probably be inclined to go back to your SDTV.

 

[MassiveRican]

You have a 4:3 EDTV? I'm pretty sure that EDTV's do not have scanlines for 240p content. Although I could be wrong, but if your EDTV doesn't have scanlines, then 240p should look worse than using the 480p option. Virtual Console games are the standard to judge by because they are pseudo pixel-perfect in 480p on a EDTV due to the GX upscaling filter used within VC games, but unfortunately you will probably loose all scanlines in 480p (notice I said "probably"....unless your TV generates scanlines in 480p....does such a thing exist?). If you set it to 480i on a EDTV without scanline ability, then it "should" look worse than 480p, with jitter/vibration/flicker. Try both for VC games, then see how things look. More than likely you will have better results on VC with 480p unless your EDTV does have a true 240p scanline mode.

Ekeeke enhanced the pixel scaling ability of SNES9x GX and FCE Ultra GX for 480p as well, and it looks almost as good as the Virtual Console in 480p. So you could try that, but be sure not change the screen size (width, height) in "Unfiltered" mode otherwise it will throw off the pixels. You might want to try Retroarch in 512x448p for SNES, and 512x480p for NES, and 640x448p for Genesis for pseudo pixel-perfect upscaling, but if the aspect ratio isn't correct for these modes, then you will have a pretty crappy picture.

In the end, on a EDTV the ideal is to have scanlines. But I'm pretty sure that most - if not all - EDTV's are without scanlines, just like CRT HDTV's. What would be really cool is if they could use scanlines in 480p, that would make VC games look incredible, probably not as good as 240p on a SDTV, but pretty close. If you have a SDTV, then that's still your best best for 240p content. Your eyes however need to be the judge of this.

P.S. An EDTV has digital processing, so unlike a SDTV (analog) it will have a modern day poison known as "Input Lag" (something that never existed prior to the digital/HD era). How much would have to measured of course, but if you find your games feel a little more slippery or loose when compared to a SDTV, then you will probably be inclined to go back to your SDTV.

Alright I found the tech specs for my TV. I think I'm caught in the huge steampile of diarrhea section, just that it's a 4:3 and the bad boy weighs 176lbs 8oz lol.

Tell me what you think and please go easy on me lol. I have a 55" Sammy LED LCD but of course that's no good for retro gaming so I might just have to find me a cheap decent CRT.

 

[nintygaming]

Alright I found the tech specs for my TV. I think I'm caught in the huge steampile of diarrhea section, just that it's a 4:3 and the bad boy weighs 176lbs 8oz lol.

Tell me what you think and please go easy on me lol. I have a 55" Sammy LED LCD but of course that's no good for retro gaming so I might just have to find me a cheap decent CRT.

WOW that Sony tube - much like a supercharged retro muscle car - is a BEAST of a TV. But its not going to be the huge steampile of diarrhea for retro gaming that a Plasma, and ESPECIALLY a LCD will be (Plasma's do such a better job than LCD's at...well....everything important). That Sony can be a really awesome TV if you frequently watch HD material because is IS a HDTV. If your playing games on it though, it will have Input Lag, but how much? Good question, perhaps someone has already posted the results online? Here's the good thing though, you might be lucky and have the option to turn off digital processing inside the service menu, which will also get rid of the Input Lag (dreaded demon of death!). I remember reading about how someone got rid of Input Lag on their Sony XBR960 within the Service Menu. AVSforum should help you with that. You could google your model number "HS500" and see what you come up with.

Is this TV "multi-scan" capable? I'm reading that spec sheet, and it says that it converts 720p to 1080i, but it does not say whether or not it converts 480p to 1080i.....and if it does not - here's the good part - then you will be able to view 480p content in its native resolution without any upscaling. CRT displays are capable of displaying ANYTHING in its native resolution providing that it has the multi-scan function built in (just like CRT PC monitors) and it will fill the whole screen if its in a 4:3 ratio.

One great thing about CRT displays is the way they don't have a "pixelated" look. A Plasma, and ESPECIALLY a LCD will show "pixelation" even on 1080p content if you get close enough, but on CRT, there are no pixels, so everything is smooth and not blocky no matter how close you get to the screen. So lets say you have one of those really old 1st gen Pioneer Plasma's that has a native resolution of 640x480 (4:3), and sit it side-by-side with your Sony HS500, and play Virtual Console games on them in 480p. Guess what? It will look more blocky on that Plasma because Plasma's contain pixels, but on that Sony CRT? No blockiness. Why? Again, CRT's don't have pixels. Smooth as butter!

I think you might have a good shot at enjoying those retro games on your Sony HS500 if you turn down the sharpness (on HD CRTs, the higher you go, the worse things get for your retro games) and turn off digital processing in the service menu. (and turn off any edge or digital comb filters, VM filter, etc). JUST MAKE SURE that your Retro games are being displayed in the 480p options that I mentioned to you in my previous post because I don't see how they could possibly look good in 240p even in that particular CRT, although you could try it.

P.S. That 55" Sammy for sure is a turb for retro gaming, but.....it might also be a turd for modern gaming too, if it has more than 2 frames of input lag (more than 1 frame is too much for me, especially when facing Mike Tyson on Punch-Out!). Samsung's typically use low-cost VA (vertical alignment) panels, and because of the excessive motion blur that these panels have, Samsung installs what is known "RTC" or "Response Time Compensation" - often referred to as "Overdrive", and is THE dirtiest form of digital post-processing known to gamers as it really hikes up the input lag. The purpose of RTC is to "overshoot" pixel response time so that motion blur is reduced....yea its a cheap trick, but it does work - at the expense of possibly killing your gaming experience. Its an unfortunate situation these days, because of the flaws of LCD technology (a technology which was never meant to be used for TV's), they have to use alot of "makeup" to cover up their "uglyness" (think of Lady Gaga without makeup, and you'll get the idea of how an LCD looks without all the digital post-processing.....a nightmare). To sum things up, digital post processing is designed to clean up the flaws, and while there are many types, RTC is the worst type (unless you don't play video games).

The sad part is, even the "Game Mode" that many TV's have, only reduce the lag a little, but rarely down to acceptable levels. And the sadist part is....its 2013 and HDTV's are laggier than they have ever been. Why? More and more digital post-processing every single year, and TV manufacturers don't give a crap because they market these TV's to movie lovers mostly. 99.8% of all HDTV's (including Plasma) have more than 1 frame of input lag even in "Game Mode". I was lucky enough to get the lowest lag HDTV known to man (Panasonic L32X1), but still has motion blur (albeit less than most LCDs due to it having a Alpha-IPS panel)! Input lag is the dirty little secret that you never see on a spec sheet.

OK, my rant is over. Sorry for the whining.

 

[the_randomizer]

So much for my bug report. Guess I can't bring it up now.

 

[AntonioJosedeSou]

Sorry to hijack, but there is a serious audio issue when using Genplus GX in RetroArch. The audio is tinny in here as well, but not in the standalone emulator, I know this for a fact and I am not imagining this. Why does it happen? I know I can switch to the separate program, but I prefer to have everything in one. I'm thinking it's how the audio is sampled in RetroArch and not a fault of Genplus GX.

Again, it's not the fault of the core, but how it's how RetroArch handles the audio output sampling.

The "tinny" sound that you are hearing in the last release of RetroArch is probably because the sample rate that Genplus GX is set now.
If you read the change log of RetroArch 0.9.8.2 it says that they change the sample rate from 44 hz to 48 hz (44.100 hz to 48.000 hz to be more precisely).
Since the sega genesis hardware never supported that frequency in first place, it would be logic to assume that it can cause "issues" in the way the sound should output.

Same applies to the super nintendo, the correct sample ratio is 32.000 hz. You can notice right way the difference in the sound in games like Top Gear 2 when you use another frequency that isn't 32.000 hz.

Anyways, I'm really happy with RetroArch. It's awesome to play cps1 and cps2 games at full speed on the Wii. I have to admit that I never tought was possible.
I really want to thank all the RetroArch team for such amazing work. You made what many tought impossible. ^^

 

[Hielkenator]

I don't know about getting rid of overscan Hielkanator. 80%of the time I have to make an adjustment with overscan to get the pic to fill my screens (flat screen CRT), And LCD I liked the way 0.9.7 did things but I'm all for improvement, if all that's added is double strike, however its emulated or achieved I'm happy. I don't need perfection of native resolutions I just want to "like the way it looks on my tv" lol, and have the options to change things a bit.

All those different resolutions sure why not as long as it doesn't cause performance problems. end users will have to know how to configure the game to the simulated "native resolution" that they want but again as long as stability is not sacrificed. That's what the devs are trying to achieve i believe and i for one want to thank u guys yet again for the effort and hope u can be patient just a little longer as I'm sure u guys are learning how to code with the GX scaler even more. No need to rush any releases if its not meeting your standards of quality that u want it to be for yourselves right ?

Honestly I've learned a lot just reading the las few pages which is great, and I hope to see Abz testing results soon since I also use retroarch through WiiFlow's plugin system. Maybe fix94 needs to make some adjustments to get things going right as well?

Only disable overscan when "a fixed to core resolution aka double strike" is implemented.
This will only be of use for crt users. I also think retroarch should let the tv ( lcd ) scale the image instead of this rendering in a window, just go purely resolution output.

Scaling/ratio is of no use if they would implement the resolution settings the right way.
A crt will naturally handle the signal no matter what, and will give the best picture if it's fed the right signal. If the right resolution is fed this will produce the allmighty scanlines.

In other words the crt tv handles the picture, so all retroarch has to do is get the right signal/resolution out, done.
On an lcd on the other hand the option to scale would be handy.
Proves that tech from a generation ( console )is best to be matched to other tech of it's generation ( crt )

Now it's just "solving" problems due to the generation gap.
Only therefore alone, such a double strike fixed res option would be great.
Good example is how Wiimednafen does this.
The coders have to make sure that the right signal is outputted is this mode though...
would be awesome!

 

[Hielkenator]

The "tinny" sound that you are hearing in the last release of RetroArch is probably because the sample rate that Genplus GX is set now.
If you read the change log of RetroArch 0.9.8.2 it says that they change the sample rate from 44 hz to 48 hz (44.100 hz to 48.000 hz to be more precisely).
Since the sega genesis hardware never supported that frequency in first place, it would be logic to assume that it can cause "issues" in the way the sound should output.

Same applies to the super nintendo, the correct sample ratio is 32.000 hz. You can notice right way the difference in the sound in games like Top Gear 2 when you use another frequency that isn't 32.000 hz.

Anyways, I'm really happy with RetroArch. It's awesome to play cps1 and cps2 games at full speed on the Wii. I have to admit that I never tought was possible.
I really want to thank all the RetroArch team for such amazing work. You made what many tought impossible. ^^

Yes, a few posts ago I wondered about this also.
I asked if this had anything to do with achieving the 60fps.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/retroarch-a-new-multi-system-emulator.333126/page-82#post-4539724

 

[Hielkenator]

A very informative explanation that was sorely needed to be said. CRTs are the clear winner for old school games due to the aforementioned reasons stated, the only issues with CRTs are these; they're very unwieldy for anything >24" and hard to find. LED LCD or normal LCD TVs are probably the next best choice as Virtual Console games are "240p" upscaled to 480i without bilinear filtering, which is why they look horrible on newer screens. This is where emulators come into play, while they can't perfectly simulate the look and feel of how a CRT outputs 240p, they get pretty darn close, closer than any PC can anyway. As such, I appreciate the work that has gone into RetroArch and the efforts of the programmers responsible for porting and fixing it up. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think it possible to get S-DD1, SA1 or Super FX chip games to run full speed. They did what Nintendidn't want to do.

For old school games, nothing beats a CRT.

Starfox does not run full speed on retroarch ( yet )

 

[AntonioJosedeSou]

Yes, a few posts ago I wondered about this also.
I asked if this had anything to do with achieving the 60fps.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/retroarch-a-new-multi-system-emulator.333126/page-82#post-4539724

Changing the sample rate to a higher frequency involves more processing for the CPU.
So change it from 44.1 Hz to 48 Hz to achieve steady 60 FPS is out of question.
They probably change it because all the new era of HDTV has the 48 Hz frequency set by default.
And is the standard of all the multimedia now.

 

[Jacobeian]

Changing the sample rate to a higher frequency involves more processing for the CPU.
So change it from 44.1 Hz to 48 Hz to achieve steady 60 FPS is out of question.
They probably change it because all the new era of HDTV has the 48 Hz frequency set by default.
And is the standard of all the multimedia now.

Audio samplerate frequency has absolutely nothing to do with the TV, the wii outputs an analog audio signal and the sampling is done internally.
48khz maybe takes more processing power since it needs to emulate more samples per seconds but the wii only supports 32 or 48 khz anyway so the 44.1 khz audio stream generated by the emulator has to be resampled by retroarch before sending it to audio hardware anyway and audio resampling isn't exactly without speed penalties.

By the way, stand-alone GenPlusGX always used 48 khz by default and does not have any issues. It's kinda odd to use a fixed samplerate for the libretro port since resampling is not only CPU taxing but will also affect audio quality. I might be wrong but I think retroarch always need to resample the emulator output by default because of that dynamic rate control thing though.

 

[MassiveRican]

Man that is some wonderful news nintygaming and some great advice. Man I can't wait to get play some old school games tonight lol. Hmm.. But first some research I'm going to star looking into getting info on my service menu and hopefully it's possible to turn off digital processing (crossing fingers XD)

P.S. That 55" Sammy for sure is a turb for retro gaming, but.....it might also be a turd for modern gaming too, if it has more than 2 frames of input lag (more than 1 frame is too much for me, especially when facing Mike Tyson on Punch-Out!). Samsung's typically use low-cost VA (vertical alignment) panels, and because of the excessive motion blur that these panels have, Samsung installs what is known "RTC" or "Response Time Compensation" - often referred to as "Overdrive", and is THE dirtiest form of digital post-processing known to gamers as it really hikes up the input lag. The purpose of RTC is to "overshoot" pixel response time so that motion blur is reduced....yea its a cheap trick, but it does work - at the expense of possibly killing your gaming experience. Its an unfortunate situation these days, because of the flaws of LCD technology (a technology which was never meant to be used for TV's), they have to use alot of "makeup" to cover up their "uglyness" (think of Lady Gaga without makeup, and you'll get the idea of how an LCD looks without all the digital post-processing.....a nightmare). To sum things up, digital post processing is designed to clean up the flaws, and while there are many types, RTC is the worst type (unless you don't play video games).

The sad part is, even the "Game Mode" that many TV's have, only reduce the lag a little, but rarely down to acceptable levels. And the sadist part is....its 2013 and HDTV's are laggier than they have ever been. Why? More and more digital post-processing every single year, and TV manufacturers don't give a crap because they market these TV's to movie lovers mostly. 99.8% of all HDTV's (including Plasma) have more than 1 frame of input lag even in "Game Mode". I was lucky enough to get the lowest lag HDTV known to man (Panasonic L32X1), but still has motion blur (albeit less than most LCDs due to it having a Alpha-IPS panel)! Input lag is the dirty little secret that you never see on a spec sheet.

OK, my rant is over. Sorry for the whining.

-_-.... My my what a sad state of affairs HD gaming has come too. Sad indeed. When I'm in the market for a new TV I'll have to reconsider my options. I'm an LG fan but the Sammy was a gift. However, I'll probably stick with LED, plasma's run way too hot for me, kills me in my room since its a bit cramped and I don't like running A/C all day lol.

I'll have to start doing research on best HDTV's for gaming.

 

[B.B.Link]

Hi. I'm new here and I would like to ask about some features I would love to see on Retroarch-wii. I'm currently utilizing the FBA CPS feature and playing the hell out the whole Marvel vs Capcom series. First I would love to see either the save states work for FBA or save RAM work because its very frustrating to keep setting dip-switches every time I restart Retroarch, plus I would love to save my Hi scores as well. Also, it would be nice to be able to set different triggers (like say for example the kick and punch buttons in MVC) to the same button on the classic controller, that way you can set something like 3 punches to 1 button making specials easier to perform. If we get these features implemented, this can be very well be the best emulator for the Wii.

I'm not very good at explaining things so I hope you understand my post and hopefully we'll see these things in the next release.