Homebrew [Request] A app that can make even small games without coding.

[jaksy]

As for my criticism of GM's, as I said, they're an excellent gateway into the world of programming and great teaching tools, but they only go so far. Sure, it's my opinion, but you shouldn't rest on your laurels if you master a GM - you don't *really* know what your program is doing, you're just slapping together pre-made statements that mean nothing outside the obfuscated layer of abstraction.

As for limitations enhancing creativity, I call nonsense - the only limiter of your creativity should be your imagination. Instances when limitation gave birth to a more enjoyable final product are few and far between. I don't like limits, I like having more resources than I could possibly spend because I don't want to worry about how to implement something, I'd rather spend that time making more content. Optimization is not a creative use of your time, it's a necessary evil. The less problems you have to deal with when programming the better, platforms already impose real-life limitations of hardware, nobody needs additional made-up limitations in their life.

If that's how someone is using their "game making" tools, they either haven't truly mastered them or the tools they are using are far far too basic of a tool to do anything useful.
It honestly sounds like your actual experience with these products is relatively limited to a select few rather basic ones you've tried in the past.

I keep pointing out how it's best utilized in CONJUNCTION with an actual programming language or as an IDE of sorts. There's no reason to use one if it doesn't benefit you personally, but these tools do have their place.

As far as limitations enhancing or detracting from an end product, I think we kind of agree that it's a bit theoretical and subjective.
As I've stated I'm not arguing it universally causes creativity in all instances, I'm simply arguing that it isn't inherently a negative thing as it can be beneficial in some cases.. and as previously mentioned, often self inflicted limitations are used for design choice.

 

[BORTZ]

Lock This Please. @Bortz @Sicklyboy @Foxi4

Are you the thread OP? Then I'm probably not going to lock it.
Do not tag mods in posts. It is highly ineffective, and only the mods you tag will see it. Next time, report the post in question so that the whole mod team can react quickly and come to a decision together.

 

[marksteele]

Different tools for different jobs. If you have a specific story that you want to tell then by all means a "game maker" tool will work great since you can work within (and around) the limitations often to greater creative gain. That being said, if you want to create a game where the user makes their own story (open world games for example) then any "game maker" tool will only hold both the developer and player back.

 

[jaksy]

Different tools for different jobs. If you have a specific story that you want to tell then by all means a "game maker" tool will work great since you can work within (and around) the limitations often to greater creative gain. That being said, if you want to create a game where the user makes their own story (open world games for example) then any "game maker" tool will only hold both the developer and player back.

This is fairly accurate assessment. It's certainly true that in a lot of situations being restricted by a game making tool would be an overall hindrance, but it's also unfair to completely dismiss them as being unfit for creating marketable end products.

 

[dpad_5678]

Are you the thread OP? Then I'm probably not going to lock it.
Do not tag mods in posts. It is highly ineffective, and only the mods you tag will see it. Next time, report the post in question so that the whole mod team can react quickly and come to a decision together.

There's nicer ways of saying it.

Most of the pages of this thread are filled with unproductive, racist, and repetitive content, as well as people arguing and spamming. #Checkm8

Not like any mod pays much attention to reported threads anyway

 

[Foxi4]

If that's how someone is using their "game making" tools, they either haven't truly mastered them or the tools they are using are far far too basic of a tool to do anything useful.
It honestly sounds like your actual experience with these products is relatively limited to a select few rather basic ones you've tried in the past.

I keep pointing out how it's best utilized in CONJUNCTION with an actual programming language or as an IDE of sorts. There's no reason to use one if it doesn't benefit you personally, but these tools do have their place.

As far as limitations enhancing or detracting from an end product, I think we kind of agree that it's a bit theoretical and subjective.
As I've stated I'm not arguing it universally causes creativity in all instances, I'm simply arguing that it isn't inherently a negative thing as it can be beneficial in some cases.. and as previously mentioned, often self inflicted limitations are used for design choice.

That's how I used DSGM - as an IDE. For all intents and purposes you could use DSGM just for plotting things on the screen using its grid and code everything else by hand in C/C++, which is what I did by the end of my adventure with it, hence I call GM's a good gateway to actual coding. My experience with Game Makers is extensive, I've used many throughout the years, including DSGM, 3D Game Maker, RPG Maker etc., in fact, my very first video game was made in PowerPoint (I was in primary, cut me some slack ) of all things. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying - Game Makers are great for their intended purpose, but thinking of them as anything other than training wheels is a bit naive. They're a great tool for creative people with no interest in coding that just want to make their vision a reality, but native coding should follow suit because no matter what tools you use, you're only ever going to be asymptotically close to what you intended to make due to various constraints. As you gain experience as a developer you should gradually explore the more advanced tools available, even if only to make the final product closer to what you imagined in the first place.

 

[jaksy]

That's how I used DSGM - as an IDE. For all intents and purposes you could use DSGM just for plotting things on the screen using its grid and code everything else by hand in C/C++, which is what I did by the end of my adventure with it, hence I call GM's a good gateway to actual coding. My experience with Game Makers is extensive, I've used many throughout the years, including DSGM, 3D Game Maker, RPG Maker etc., in fact, my very first video game was made in PowerPoint (I was in primary, cut me some slack ) of all things. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying - Game Makers are great for their intended purpose, but thinking of them as anything other than training wheels is a bit naive. They're a great tool for creative people with no interest in coding that just want to make their vision a reality, but native coding should follow suit because no matter what tools you use, you're only ever going to be asymptotically close to what you intended to make due to various constraints. As you gain experience as a developer you should gradually explore the more advanced tools available, even if only to make the final product closer to what you imagined in the first place.

By the examples you give I'm still under the impression that your viewpoint is soured by an experience using very constraining tools.

I'm not misunderstanding you, it's just that I strongly disagree with a statement like

Game Makers are great for their intended purpose, but thinking of them as anything other than training wheels is a bit naive.

This is a blanket statement, and in my opinion isn't really a fair assessment of modern more powerful game creation tools.
You're implying that the exclusive intended purpose for game tools are training wheels, and that's simply not true anymore.

 

[hobbledehoy899]

I'm working on "Mario Engine", which is basically (gonna be) a programmable Mario Maker Ofc it uses Lua, because of reasons

Could I possibly be a tester for that?

 

[Sono]

Could I possibly be a tester for that?

There's currently nothing to test I am working on it in the background, so the GitHub repo is always a bit outdated.

Anyways, if you're interested in a (currently) disfunctional product, here it is: https://github.com/MarcuzD/MM
Also, if you don't want to bother to search for the downloadable package, here it is: MarioEngine_pre_barebones_dev.7z

You can run around, get stuck in the collision, or maybe try out the Lua engine.
I have some stuff implemented on the Lua side, so you could tinker around with it a bit. Here's the (currently unfinished) documentation: Ł_docs.md

 

[hobbledehoy899]

There's currently nothing to test I am working on it in the background, so the GitHub repo is always a bit outdated.

Anyways, if you're interested in a (currently) disfunctional product, here it is: https://github.com/MarcuzD/MM
Also, if you don't want to bother to search for the downloadable package, here it is: MarioEngine_pre_barebones_dev.7z

You can run around, get stuck in the collision, or maybe try out the Lua engine.
I have some stuff implemented on the Lua side, so you could tinker around with it a bit. Here's the (currently unfinished) documentation: Ł_docs.md

Thanks!