Homebrew [Request] A app that can make even small games without coding.

[jsa]

So me and alot of people are creative but can't code in a language that can make even just a random 8-ball machine.

So i was thinking...

Why not have a template where you can edit sprites and make levels using a easy to use program without any coding.

Even it is just pong or breakout this could be pretty cool.

If you have no idea what im requesting im asking for a Game Creator of sorts.

You mean something like DS Game Maker?

 

[Sono]

Ok, so it could be done.
I don't know if it will be done though, you'ld essentially have to make a game, a level editor a sprite editor and stuff. Essentially quite a lot of work, and all games would probably feel about the same.

I think a more realistic idea is for someone to make a game (a platformer for instance) and then add a level editor, but if someone wants to make it I do think it would be a fun homebrew, just a lot of work.

I'm working on "Mario Engine", which is basically (gonna be) a programmable Mario Maker Ofc it uses Lua, because of reasons

 

[TimX24968B]

You mean something like DS Game Maker?

I think he meant more of like one of those programming languages that uses blocks like scratch.

Honestly, i feel like coding is a HUGE necessity in making games rather than just using a block click and drag program. It not only shows you how things work better, but it gets you used to seeing code. I really feel like way too many people nowadays love to trade-off things for convenience and user friendliness (to newbs to the program), and it annoys me alot, when we live in a world that doesn't want to get dirty or just wants everything convenient. (that's just from my experience, don't hate please)

Not to mention, programs like these are also much more limiting and don't really show you too much of how things work together. This can make implementing custom things that aren't already in the program very difficult.

 

[Sono]

Honestly, i feel like coding is a HUGE necessity in making games rather than just using a block click and drag program. It not only shows you how things work better, but it gets you used to seeing code. I really feel like way too many people nowadays love to trade-off things for convenience and user friendliness (to newbs to the program), and it annoys me alot, when we live in a world that doesn't want to get dirty or just wants everything convenient. (that's just from my experience, don't hate please)

Not to mention, programs like these are also much more limiting and don't really show you too much of how things work together. This can make implementing custom things that aren't already in the program very difficult.

That's why I'm teaching 5th-grade little students to code in ACTUAL code (Lua / C# / plain C) instead of Scratch for example, because they get used to seeing code, so they could easily learn harder programming languages afterwards.

 

[TimX24968B]

That's why I'm teaching 5th-grade little students to code in ACTUAL code (Lua / C# / plain C) instead of Scratch for example, because they get used to seeing code, so they could easily learn harder programming languages afterwards.

thank god. I hated having to use those types of programs, and our CS teacher even decided to take scratch out of our video game design curriculum for that.

 

[jaksy]

I think he meant more of like one of those programming languages that uses blocks like scratch.

Honestly, i feel like coding is a HUGE necessity in making games rather than just using a block click and drag program. It not only shows you how things work better, but it gets you used to seeing code. I really feel like way too many people nowadays love to trade-off things for convenience, and it annoys me alot, when we live in a world that doesn't want to get dirty or just wants everything convenient. (that's just from my experience, don't hate please)

Not to mention, programs like these are also much more limiting and don't really show you too much of how things work together. This can make implementing custom things that aren't already in the program very difficult.

DS Game Maker does look like it claims to allow you to utilize some forms of scripting and programming, but it seems a rather simplistic tool compared to more mainstream click team/rpgmaker/gamemaker tools available for the PC.
A lot of times these more feature rich tools are used in conjunction with programming as an IDE of sorts, so they can definitely be used as an asset instead of a hindrance.

Also keep in mind limitation and simplicity often breeds creativity.

That's because 10 years ago we had some standards and today Game Maker crap like Undertale gets a GOTY award.

I should point out Myst back in 1991 was amazingly well received and still is praised, but it was made in HyperCard.
HyperCard is really nothing more than a rolodex of virtual numbered index cards that you can place images and links on so you can jump to another numbered index card.
Myst was the equivalent of a cleverly designed powerpoint.

 

[TimX24968B]

Also keep in mind limitation and simplicity often breeds creativity.

could you explain?

 

[Afonso Mralha]

@Jacklack3

Code isn't that hard... Of course there are some applications that make coding hard, not an expert but if you start with something easy like python makes the transition to other languages easy

Ive started about 3 years ago learning by myself C and python, im having classes now, its reall fun!

 

[jaksy]

could you explain?

I shouldn't have to. That's kind of a universal constant.
When people are oppressed enough they rise up to overcome the challenges.

This is true in the creative process in most things, including video games.
It's similar to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_is_the_mother_of_invention

 

[dpad_5678]

not true at all, and its dui smartass..

DUI = Driving Under The Influence

GUI = Graphic User Interaface

 

[TimX24968B]

I shouldn't have to. That's kind of a universal constant.
When people are oppressed enough they rise up to overcome the challenges.

This is true in the creative process in most things, including video games.
It's similar to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_is_the_mother_of_invention

Yes, but wouldn't those bounds of creativity be constrained within the limits of the program?

 

[jaksy]

Yes, but wouldn't those bounds of creativity be constrained within the limits of the program?

Sure, but those constraints often seem to create a more unique product than one completely unbound by any rules.

Without a wall to keep hitting your shoulder against you often wouldn't come crashing across the goal with as much force, you'd merely walk to it.

I mean for example, Donkey Kong Country we have prerendered 3d models put on sprites. If we had the usage of actual 3d models on the snes instead of prerendered the graphics likely would have aged much worse.
Because of the limitations we likely received this clever innovation, and possibly a better product.

Often games are directly structured around the limitations of what they are made on, so they wouldn't even be the game we love without them. See Myst and my Hyper Card example in my previous above.

 

[Afonso Mralha]

wow so deep...

 

[dpad_5678]

Lock This Please. @Bortz @Sicklyboy @Foxi4

 

[TimX24968B]

Sure, but those constraints often seem to create a more unique product than one completely unbound by any rules.

Without a wall to keep hitting your shoulder against you often wouldn't come crashing across the goal with as much force, you'd merely walk to it.

yes, but wouldn't that give you other places to exhort that effort to as well? Not to mention wouldn't it depend on what your scope is, too?

 

[jaksy]

yes, but wouldn't that give you other places to exhort that effort to as well? Not to mention wouldn't it depend on what your scope is, too?

I mean yeah, but unfortunately humans don't usually expend excess energy unless properly motivated.
Necessity is often the largest motivator of all.

I'm not arguing limitation universally creates a better product, just that it's not inherently a bad thing.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there also quite a few limitations that the gaming community itself still holds with nostalgia.
Consider the fact that modern indie games like Shovel Knight still stylize themselves with a very limited retro feeling palette of colors, and I'd argue are the better for this self inflicted replication of a bygone limitation.

 

[TimX24968B]

I mean yeah, but unfortunately humans don't usually expend excess energy unless properly motivated.
Necessity is often the largest motivator of all.

I'm not arguing limitation universally creates a better product, just that it's not inherently a bad thing.

Ah. That clarifies alot, and i guess it kinda depends on your perspective and your goals of the task at hand.

 

[jaksy]

Ah. That clarifies alot, and i guess it kinda depends on your perspective and your goals of the task at hand.

Absolutely, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Heran Bago]

Got to toss Wario Ware D.I.Y. on top of this thread. Good times before they cut the online in late 2012.

 

[Foxi4]

I always giggle when someone says that learning C is difficult, complex or confusing when it's one of the easiest and most straight-forward languages to master. There's no layer of abstraction to deal with and it only has a handful of logical constructs - once you know what a loop (do x for y amount of times, do x while y is true), a conditional statement (do x if y happens) and a variable (any form of data) are, you're practically set - everything else is a matter of convenience. Actual functionality can be easily looked up, you don't need to know it. There isn't even a garbage collection system - all the data you use is wherever you declared it. It's scripting or interpreted languages that are confusing because they deal with abstract concepts like inheritance or classes, C is as baseline as it gets.

As for my criticism of GM's, as I said, they're an excellent gateway into the world of programming and great teaching tools, but they only go so far. Sure, it's my opinion, but you shouldn't rest on your laurels if you master a GM - you don't *really* know what your program is doing, you're just slapping together pre-made statements that mean nothing outside the obfuscated layer of abstraction.

As for limitations enhancing creativity, I call nonsense - the only limiter of your creativity should be your imagination. Instances when limitation gave birth to a more enjoyable final product are few and far between. I don't like limits, I like having more resources than I could possibly spend because I don't want to worry about how to implement something, I'd rather spend that time making more content. Optimization is not a creative use of your time, it's a necessary evil. The less problems you have to deal with when programming the better, platforms already impose real-life limitations of hardware, nobody needs additional made-up limitations in their life.