Net Neutrality once again needs our help!

[RevPokemon]

I am just going to say that I respect you, but you are kind wrong on this one

Same for you 100% (If I could use the emoji I would)

Anyway I realistically do not expect a response since it is late in the night so I am likely to not respond to further discussion until the morning.

First, you argued that ISPs are hurt by services like Netflix and Youtube, expect they aren't. ISPs put a data cap on your service, thus meaning they've already determined how much data you can use before it starts effecting them. This means you've already gotten a set amount of data to do anything you want with, so long as it doesn't go above that cap. Thus every service you use, they've already calculated into your bill.

In a large sense whenever there is a service the fact of the matter is while the bill is calculated that does not mean all costs are ultimately equal since the profit yield from the same item or service can vary. Thus they have an incentive to make means to reduce such cost even in cases where the product or service is profitable for the seller. This is just simply a matter of business and nothing else.

Second, your idea that they have the right to tell you what you can and can't do is simply wrong. That would be like me walking into Subway, ordering a tuna sub, and them telling me that I am getting ham because it's their store. ISPs are a service provider, they are a customer service company like every other company. They should not have the power to determine what you can and can't do, so long as it's within the law.

If I go the Subway as you described and ask for tuna rather than ham, they have the full rights to

1. Charge more (due to the costs and other reasons)

and

2. Not offer equal service (due to inherent nature)

Now to say that this comparison is correct is a stretch at best. As a service/product provider they have the right to tell you what you can do, can't do, how to do it, and charge more or less for what it is. Its like why not hire a lawn mower for an hour and then expect him to devote 20 minutes of the time to weed eating if that is the case?

Finally, you keep ignoring the issues with censorship. Without NN, ISPs will have the power to determine who gets the best speeds and who doesn't. This isn't just limited to sites like Youtube, this includes the entire internet. If Comcast (for example) decides they don't like the content on GBATemp, they can legally slow it down. From they have the power to decide what happens, they can demand the site completely strip itself of hacking related content, they demand the staff/users to pay a higher fee to access that site at full speed, or they can simply lag the site death. Without NN, the ISP has all the power over what you can see.
And if you don't think they will try to starve out a service, realize they've already tried to do it before

I support that 100% as that is thier right to do that and they should. To say that they should not have that right is just ludicrous.

 

[bendevnull]

I didn't realize how big of a political debate this thread was...
*cough* @RevPokemon & @Lilith Valentine *cough*
(TL;DR I've only seen those posts being political. Sorry if I put too few people on blast here )

EDIT: Also, I just realized that everyone who has replied to this thread is American. That was probably a stupid remark.

 

[The Catboy]

In a large sense whenever there is a service the fact of the matter is while the bill is calculated that does not mean all costs are ultimately equal since the profit yield from the same item or service can vary. Thus they have an incentive to make means to reduce such cost even in cases where the product or service is profitable for the seller. This is just simply a matter of business and nothing else.

They've already given a cap, thus already allotted your data to you. To tell you that you can't use that data to watch netflix is a grave injustice to your rights. To charge you more for using the data you've already gotten doesn't make sense. You've already gotten your data and you've already gotten your limit on that data, it's only when you go over that they determine you need to pay more. That is how it's suppose to work and should work.

If I go the Subway as you described and ask for tuna rather than ham, they have the full rights to

1. Charge more (due to the costs and other reasons)

and

2. Not offer equal service (due to inherent nature)

Now to say that this comparison is correct is a stretch at best. As a service/product provider they have the right to tell you what you can do, can't do, how to do it, and charge more or less for what it is. Its like why not hire a lawn mower for an hour and then expect him to devote 20 minutes of the time to weed eating if that is the case?

If I order something and I don't get what I ordered, then I didn't the service I requested. Same goes for the internet I am paying for. I already paid to be online and I already paid for my data. Telling me that my service will be slowed for Netflix violates the service I already paid for.

I support that 100% as that is thier right to do that and they should. To say that they should not have that right is just ludicrous.

That's pretty sad that you are willing to hand over your rights to a company only to get online. They've already shown us that they can and will hinder us for profit, censorship, or whatever suits their fancy. By giving them the power do so, you are actually giving up parts of your own rights.

 

[RevPokemon]

They've already given a cap, thus already allotted your data to you. To tell you that you can't use that data to watch netflix is a grave injustice to your rights. To charge you more for using the data you've already gotten doesn't make sense. You've already gotten your data and you've already gotten your limit on that data, it's only when you go over that they determine you need to pay more. That is how it's suppose to work and should work.

I disagree since while you are perhaps entitled to such data that does not mean that you are entitled to such a degree of service that comes with it. Thus more payments are ethical in that sense even if a shitty thing to do.

If I order something and I don't get what I ordered, then I didn't the service I requested. Same goes for the internet I am paying for. I already paid to be online and I already paid for my data. Telling me that my service will be slowed for Netflix violates the service I already paid for.

No it does not unless you specifically asked for such quality of service to be a certain level which in the case of the ISPs did not happen. It would be like getting the sandwich and bitching it doesn't taste fresh from Seattle (or wherever). Under the agreement there is no violation even if the service is subpar (like in restaurants)

That's pretty sad that you are willing to hand over your rights to a company only to get online. They've already shown us that they can and will hinder us for profit, censorship, or whatever suits their fancy. By giving them the power do so, you are actually giving up parts of your own rights.

1. What rights are realistically given up?
2. They have a right to do so
3. I (and you) have no real rights that are being violated

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

EDIT: Also, I just realized that everyone who has replied to this thread is American. That was probably a stupid remark.

Umm isn't this a American thing? Is part of FCC which is a USA thing.

 

[RevPokemon]

Umm isn't this a American thing? Is part of FCC which is a USA thing.

Yes it is largely an American issue although implications are far reaching

 

[MionissNio]

Umm isn't this a American thing? Is part of FCC which is a USA thing.

Apart from the fact corrupt countries such as mine will get ideas....
I already pay $42 for my connection at 4Mbps I cannot afford to pay more.

Also for young bloggers and website hosts arpund the world this gonna be bad real bad.

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

I already pay $42 for my connection at 4Mbps I cannot afford to pay more

*Feelsbadman* O_O
Wow, that is like bad. I pay $60 for 60MBPS download, 30MBPS upload with about 10 Ping, how do you live with such speed?

 

[Ricken]

Irks me that we have to fight for a form of freedom, this isn't the 1800's.
Really feelin' like this is just encouraging usage of the dark web, which was made by people who wished to avoid having everything they do potentially monitored .-.

 

[MionissNio]

*Feelsbadman* O_O
Wow, that is like bad. I pay $60 for 60MBPS download, 30MBPS upload with about 10 Ping, how do you live with such speed?

I don't I'm ded.

On the serious side it works well for 360p streaming and stuff. Downloading games and other stuff it is hell, I like sleep at night and let it download.

Worst part is periodic blackouts like after every 4 hour.



Anyways I support net neutrality and you should too! Internet is a something that should not be controlled by a cooperation!

 

[mr allen]

I disagree since while you are perhaps entitled to such data that does not mean that you are entitled to such a degree of service that comes with it. Thus more payments are ethical in that sense even if a shitty thing to do.

Why should ISPs have a say over how someone uses that data that they pay for? The ISP doesn't own it said data, they're just there to give people access to it, hence the name Internet Service Provider. They're just a middleman, nothing more, nothing less. How would giving them absolute say help either the consumer or the business that owns owns a website?

No it does not unless you specifically asked for such quality of service to be a certain level which in the case of the ISPs did not happen. It would be like getting the sandwich and bitching it doesn't taste fresh from Seattle (or wherever). Under the agreement there is no violation even if the service is subpar (like in restaurants)

That's the thing though, I am paying for that quality of service. I pay for 60Mbs with no data cap, what that means is that I should have a consistent speed of 60Mbs with no restriction on how much i use, anything less is illegal. That also means that it is illegal for my ISP to throttle me because they don't like a website I visit as then that means I'm not getting the speed I pay for.

 

[DinohScene]

Eventually, Internet will be tightly controlled like the tobacco industry.
Expect black market ISPs to emerge soon!

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

n the serious side it works well for 360p streaming and stuff. Downloading games and other stuff it is hell, I like sleep at night and let it download.

Well to be honest, back in 2005 when game consoles started making use of the internet to download games and updates and online multiplayer and such, it was still bad with their 2.4GHZ wifi making downloads nightmare even with people having high speeds of up to 20MB. So that was a thing.... guess is better now that 5GHZ AC is a thing and gets better with other more powerful wifi connections. Even if we did have pay for high speed, the console hardware limits was a pain for online gaming, not to mention bad net coding by games themself.

 

[hobbledehoy899]

I bet sending a pre-made letter 50 times will stop this.

Yeah, what most people don't realize is that this sort of "petitioning" is really just spam.

 

[The Catboy]

I just realized this thread overshot a day .-.

 

[Subtle Demise]

I wish it were possible to boycott ISPs in the US, but there are no alternatives.

 

[EthanAddict]

If we don't get Net Neutrality, I think I should abandon my hopes on a better Internet

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It is plain stupid that a democratic media where everyone can have it's own opinion get's owned by Big Data corporations and control what goes in and what goes out.
I think we need to act fast, even though we will just slow down the whole thing

 

[The Catboy]

I disagree since while you are perhaps entitled to such data that does not mean that you are entitled to such a degree of service that comes with it. Thus more payments are ethical in that sense even if a shitty thing to do.

If you already paid for a limit, then it's fair game what I use that data for. I currently have 2TB data cap on my internet, which means what I do within that 2TB shouldn't be limited because some of it is used for streaming services. I already paid for that data, Comcast should not have the power to dictate what I do with something I paid for.

No it does not unless you specifically asked for such quality of service to be a certain level which in the case of the ISPs did not happen. It would be like getting the sandwich and bitching it doesn't taste fresh from Seattle (or wherever). Under the agreement there is no violation even if the service is subpar (like in restaurants)

I didn't agree to have my streaming services slowed. I've read my contract and nowhere in there did I agree to allow them to slow my internet, unless I go past my data cap.

1. What rights are realistically given up?
2. They have a right to do so
3. I (and you) have no real rights that are being violated

Freedom of speech and information for starters, coupled with freedom to use the services that I paid for.
They are a company and a service provider, they do not have a right to censor speech and they don't have the right to abuse the enduser for profit.
Expect you know, the freedom of speech.

 

[chrisrlink]

who the f*ck cares? obviously the ones pulling the strings don't or trump would've been impeached by now oh and the global warming bullshit is real it's been hitting 90+ F round here for the past month humanity as a whole needs a reboot or to just become extinct and i'm not talking one single religion i mean the ENTIRE human race