Homebrew N64 Emulator on DS?

[Jax]

I want to play Banjo-Kazzoie and/or Banjo-Tooie on my DS!

I heard a new game is being worked on for the DS, but I don't know if it's a remake or a completely new game!
I wish it was the two N64 games in one cartridge, because BT is a direct sequel to BK.

 

[AMPonzi]

I'd say you need at least 10 times the clocks per cycle of the emulated hardware in order to emulate a system properly. I mean, my 450MHz PIII PC at the time wouldn't run GBA games that well and that was almost 30 times the GBA CPU speed. So trying to emulate N64 on DS would be very impractical.

 

[imgod22222]

well, this may sound like a stupid question, but the main thing is that the n64 takes the info and understands differently than the DS regularly does?
example: both hear 00110010, the DS thinks "3" and the n64 thinks "q" ?

AMPonzi, don't forget; your 450Mhz PIII also has to run all the BS of windows 98 or whatever OS you have running at the time and any other background apps.

Jax, i think it's technically impossible to put BK and BT on one DS card because the roms are like 90MB each and i don't think they make DS cards that hold 180MB.

And going to how the DS constructs a virutal enviroment, I'm going to make assumptions, and i want people to correct me.
The CPU unpacks the textures, and smaller textures = less CPU work.
The CPU draws polygons, so making sprites have less triangles means less CPU work
Having the touch screen show the C buttons would make more CPU work, but be less work than drawing extra polygons
The GPU works on filling the polygons with the appropriate textures

And a little techy question: since both the GPU and CPU are Processing Units, can you make the GPU do a bit of CPU work? (which i highly doubt but just a question for someone to answer)

And all together, i say since both the n64 and DS are so similar, there are probably similarities in how they interpret information.

Last question for this post: How can an n64 emulator (project 64) emulate OoT: Master Quest? It was only released for GC, right???

 

[other]

Since you just won't accept it, read this thread: http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10951

 

[saulin]

Hahaha gotta love this posts. People think this way when it comes to Emulation. You need like 10X more power than the system being emulated for it to run full speed.

SNES Specs
-------------
CPU 16-bit 65816
Clock speed 3.58, 2.68, 1.79 MHz
RAM 128 Kb
VRAM 16 Kb
Resolution 512 x 448 pixels

Yes this is possible on the DS.


Turbografx-16 Specs
------------------------
CPU 8-bit HuC6280
Clock speed 7.16 MHz
Graphics 16-bit
Audio 6 channel stereo
Resolution 400 x 270 pixels

Yes this is possible on the DS


Sega Genesis Specs
-----------------------
CPU 16-bit
Clock speed 7.61 MHz
RAM 64 KB
Audio
RAM 8 Kb
Resolution 320 x 224 pixels

Yes this is possible on the DS


Neo Geo Specs
-----------------
CPU 16-bit 68000
Clock speed 7.8 MHz
Audio 4 FM + 7 channel
Resolution 320 x 224 pixels

Yes this would possible on the DS with the use of some kind of virtual memory I think cause the roms are huge


Nintendo 64 Specs
---------------------
Specification Description
CPU 64-bit RISC
Clock speed 93.75 MHz
RAM 4.5 MB
Graphics 32-bit
Resolution 256 x 244, 640 x 480 pixels

No freaking way it would be emulated by the DS

 

[KillerMiller]

Most people forget also the fact that the N64 can FILTER textures, the DS cant.

 

[Psyfira]

And tehraf3, how would you be able to port it? O.O What does porting mean anyways? Sorry, i never actually took time to think about what it meant.

Porting means to take a game from one system and changing it to run on a different one without emulation. (for example, how the Snes Super Mario games were re-released on a GBA cart) . It involves getting hold of the source code of a game, knowing how the game works and re-writing the code so that the destination system can run it. Most games companies don't release their source code, that's why most of the homebrew ports that exist today are either of older games or are just similar re-makes written from scratch. Commercial ports are made by the company who own the original game. Nintendo pounced on the chance to re-release their SNES titles on the GBA, so if converting N64 games to run on the DS was possible then surely theyd've done a few by now?

Besides, why would you want to emulate the N64 on the DS? The screen would be so small it'd probably render most games unplayable.

 

[imgod22222]

what's filtering textures? (sorry i haven't learned enough about 3D yet)
I just can't give up on thinking there's a way. The DS is just so awesome, and Nintendo has to just kill it right there by keeping Oot from getting handheld.

 

[bikingcam]

N64 would be sweet but lets see some SNES first

 

[other]

I just can't give up on thinking there's a way.

Well, there isn't (not a playable way). Did you read the thread I posted? I'll post it again: http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10951

 

[Opium]

N64 on DS is not happening in any reasonable way! PSP has VASTLY superior power and it isn't running N64 at a proper playable speed yet.

I wish some developer would start work on a proper snes emulator for DS though, up until now it's been very patchy work passed off here and there. It'd be a lot of work but it'll certainly be possible.

 

[tshu]

Yes I'd much rather see more effort be put into SNES emulation on DS. N64 emulation on DS will never happen, I'm sure of that.

All I want to do is be able to play Earthbound on my DS

.

 

[saulin]

I also would love to see a good Turbografx-16 emu for the DS. If one day we get Great Nes, Snes, Genesis and TG-16 emulation that would be as good as emulation would get on the DS. I think NeoGeo could be possible too.

I'm not coder so I can't say how hard it is to make emulators from scratch for the DS. But there is a lot of free sourse code for the systems mentioned so great emulation of these systems is very possible. I'm just amazed to see so many kick ass emulators on the Xbox. It almost seems like porting windows emulators to the Xbox is so freaking easy.

 

[xflash]

so if converting N64 games to run on the DS was possible then surely theyd've done a few by now?

err they already have super mario 64 ds then again i suppos it's acctualy a remake and not a port but im not sure if a remake counts as the same thing conserning the whole converting thing

 

[blackjack]

I want to emulate a PSP on my dsl... oh wait..

But still a ds is fun while a psp is just a normal
computer. Downgrade, upgrade, rightgrade, etc.
Plus it has the size of a clay brick.

 

[imgod22222]

Would it be possible to make an emulation, but only emulate 3/4 of the picture? (Not emulating anything past a certain value in the Z axis)
Example: A full emu would let you see 100yds in front of u, and this 3/4 emu would let you see 50yds, and simply not render any polygons afterwards?

**Still like to hear an understandable definition of texture filtering**

 

[yee]

N64 would be sweet but lets see some SNES first

SNES > N64

SNES is 1000x better.

 

[imgod22222]

Sorry, lost this thread. How can you say that? IMO there was one good game for SNES (SMRPG) and all the other games were too pixelated to see wtf was going on (StarFox) or were too straightforward (DK) even though SMRPG was equally as straightforward, I plainly like RPG games. And I really only played 11 different SNES games so i might be missing ALOT of SNES. On the other hand, everyone I know had at least 15 N64 games, so i played alot of N64. Never rented SNES games either (never owned one)

Dumb question: if emulation is because of different CPU's (ARM vs Whatever N64 had)does that mean that Core is emulating Netburst when running Windows? AMD's microarchitecture (whatever that is) emulates something else? Or is it all the same thing, except for a better design? (which would mean its all different?)
*totally confused myself*

Also, saulin, don't forget: XBOX and Windows are both from Microsoft. There might be a really, really similar coding style used (Example: XBOX uses DirectX over OpenGL because Microsoft made DirectX) They just make something based on hundreds of other things they made so you need to buy their hundreds of stuff.

 

[Scorpin200]

Why does everyone want to play emulation on a system? the ds is a n64 if they wanted to the game could be made easily, but n64 is dead an never comming back. Emulation shoud be left to the pc, cause it's the only thing made to handle it since emulation is basically dead.

 

[The Teej]

I wrote an editorial on this subject a while back for a forum-based newspaper, I'll link/quote it.

AlakaZAM! Changing the Virtual Console in the Virtual Handheld

Pretty much soon after the Virtual Console was announced alongside DS to then Revolution connectivity, people started to wonder about the Virtual Console being on the DS, seen as the DS is considered a pseudo-N64 handheld.

To be perfectly honest, I originally thought the whole idea about Emulated N64 games on the DS is nothing more then “stupid kiddy ideas”, ones who don’t know anything about technical limitations of emulation. That was…up until last night. Now, the idea of DS being the one to emulate the N64 is still stupid, but the Wii can.

Going back to the off-shoot idea of the Wii capturing DS gameplay, why not reverse that idea a little? The Wii can emulate the N64, right? If the Wii can send data to the DS, why can’t it send video data instead? The idea I have in mind, is that the Wii sends a video stream to the DS, and along with it a small background application where when you press a button on the DS, it sends a very tiny piece of data that the Wii interprets as a button press on a Wii controller. When something happens on the N64 game on the Wii, the video data will get send back to the DS, making it seem like it’s actually being played on the DS.

To maximise video data transfer, you wouldn’t display the video or audio on the Wii, just constantly send it to the DS. Plus, you’d be displaying the Video at a lot smaller resolution then the N64 (320x240 is the N64 Resolution, 256x192 is the DS Resolution).

The only problem now is that the DS doesn’t have as many buttons as the N64, but the DS could use the touch screen, or send out various controller schemes per game (although this would take a bit more setting up, compared to one setup with the controller scheme).

Nevertheless it is one massive hurdle that’s been overcome, and the only potential problems would be with N64 games; the SNES, NES, SMD and TG-16 games would be a lot easier to do.

http://rconcept.co.uk/zpgp/teej_nintendots.html

The whole editorial really offers some great ideas, but I'll understand if you don't want to read it, but I thought I'd at least offer this tid-bit from the editorial, seen as it ties in with the discussion at hand