My view on religion.

[spokenrope]

Babies are born with "original sin," and that's why they have to be baptized. To die without being baptized, then, is to die a sinner and hence you go to hell.

My little sister was just baptized, and that's how the priest explained it to me.

 

[VVoltz]

this post has been removed by a moderator
reason: Unnecessary

MMmm......

 

[Azimuth]

my point exactly, what is faith, believing in something without proof

Ok sure, but just without the killing people who disagree bit. Whilst countless deaths and wars have occured with religion at the centre, that does not mean that all religion deals with the killing of oposition.

Please do not confuse faith with religion.

Most people have to believe in something, be it a god, or just that their life will get better, whatever.
Religion is a man-made instrumentation of faith to control people.
You may believe and not adhere to religion at all. You have to believe ; you can't merely stick to science, since science has not explained everything to this day.

All religions have a bloody past, today they press their beliefs on people by using creationism, abortion and gay rights as a leverage to lampoon the opposition.

@Astral, at least science admits its faults and offers me physical evidence to support their theories, thats why science is important, because we don't yet understand everything and we quest to find out by making intelligent guesses based on experimental evidence.

Faith is the complete confidence that what you believe in is correct without any proof. If someone thinks his life will be better, thats optimism not faith.

 

[skullstatue]

Now, I don't really like to say this but: the belief in evolution is your religion. For instance, the other day some guy yelled profanity out of the window, one person could look at this in a spiritual sense (the wicked are used to punish the good, test my patience) or another could look at it in a humanistic sense (that guy yelled at me to recieve attention from his girlfriend). Or someone could look at it in both senses. I see religion not only as the perspective a person may have on life but also their various types and levles of faith. Saying religion is the cause of all problems isn't good, you are saying that it's wrong to exist in itself. Yes, we can look at the crusades, but we can also look at presecution in Rome, or the extermination of Christians in Russia. But above anything else, religion is the most important thing in a person's life.

 

[spokenrope]

Also since Christianity is the truth

It's important for you to recognize that this isn't true. You think it's the truth, which is fine. If it was actually the truth, then it wouldn't be called "faith."

And, if you had been born in Pakistan, you wouldn't believe this. Something else that's important to consider, I think.

well there really isn't much to lose. If i where to die and it not be true, then it wouldn't matter because i would be dead and Im not going to find my life a waste since there is no life after death.

We can't continue a dialog if you dodge the subjects.

And there is something to lose. What if you picked the wrong religion? Then every Sunday you're just making god madder and madder.

 

[spokenrope]

the belief in evolution is your religion.

Kinda, I guess. Except belief in evolution is based on evidence. Piles of it.

 

[henry_uk]

Well, uhh ... I thought that's what Christians believed.Â

 The thing is ... you can find two christians that believe in totally different things. There's so many denominations. I'm sure there are some that think babies who die go to heaven ... but I remember them going to hell ... because they have original sin or something.

Yeah I can see where your coming from on this. Its like the age of argument of wether or not suicides go to hell etc. First you have the different religions that share the same bible, then you have the different denominations, then you have the different people. and each and everyone of those has a different take on each issue.

 

[Deleted User]

I agree with everything, am an Atheist myself, and so is almost everyone I know.
However, I'd like to point out a slight mistake in the topic post, the burden of proof actually IS with you, not with the religious people.

Scientifically speaking, everything is true until it is proofed false.
For example: millions of people can never see a unicorn, but that doesn't prove they don't exist. However, only 1 person needs to see one to prove they DO exists. Assuming the person wouldn't be lying, of course.
Yes, generally speaking it is impossible to prove something is true, and very easy to prove something is wrong. The trick is striping away all the wrongs until the only possible right remains.

Ok, I'm rambling now, sorry, stopping

Actually, Scientifically speaking ... the burden of proof is on whoever suggested this god.

Taken from wikipedia:
"Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the person's responsibility who is making the bold claim to prove it."

 

[henry_uk]

Babies are born with "original sin," and that's why they have to be baptized. To die without being baptized, then, is to die a sinner and hence you go to hell.

My little sister was just baptized, and that's how the priest explained it to me.

That is one view, but the church I attended whilst still practicing would probally deem that statement un-Christian.

 

[Astral_]

@Astral, at least science admits its faults and offers me physical evidence to support their theories, thats why science is important, because we don't yet understand everything and we quest to find out by making intelligent guesses based on experimental evidence.

Faith is the complete confidence that what you believe in is correct without any proof. If someone thinks his life will be better, thats optimism not faith.

Well even science can have different interpretations based on the same facts, but ultimately it can prove things. That is where it beats blind faith.

As for faith being complete confidence, that is extreme ; faith is belief. It can be blind, it can be open. I used to believe in God, I do not anymore, and the change did not take one day.

I will have no problem with anyone believing in a deity as long as he does not try to convert me (that's a difference between faith and religion). After all, a supreme being sounds stupid, but the Big Bang does not make much sense either.

 

[Azimuth]

Well even science can have different interpretations based on the same facts, but ultimately it can prove things. That is where it beats blind faith.

As for faith being complete confidence, that is extreme ; faith is belief. It can be blind, it can be open. I used to believe in God, I do not anymore, and the change did not take one day.Â

I will have no problem with anyone believing in a deity as long as he does not try to convert me (that's a difference between faith and religion). After all, a supreme being sounds stupid, but the Big Bang does not make much sense either.

Thats the difference between enlightened people(me,you...) and religious fanatics. Science is not perfect but when there is a mistake a scientist doesn't just cover his ears and keep believing in a false theory. Religion continues to assert that the same crap that has been proven wrong is right, saying such things as the world is 6000 years old when there is tons of evidence countering this.

Im all for people believing what they want, but when I hear that creationism should be taught as an opposing theory to evolution, I can't accept that.

 

[Thulinma]

I agree with everything, am an Atheist myself, and so is almost everyone I know.
However, I'd like to point out a slight mistake in the topic post, the burden of proof actually IS with you, not with the religious people.

Scientifically speaking, everything is true until it is proofed false.
For example: millions of people can never see a unicorn, but that doesn't prove they don't exist. However, only 1 person needs to see one to prove they DO exists. Assuming the person wouldn't be lying, of course.
Yes, generally speaking it is impossible to prove something is true, and very easy to prove something is wrong. The trick is striping away all the wrongs until the only possible right remains.

Ok, I'm rambling now, sorry, stopping

Actually, Scientifically speaking ... the burden of proof is on whoever suggested this god.

Taken from wikipedia:
"Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the person's responsibility who is making the bold claim to prove it."

You missed the part below that:

"Failure to provide sufficient proof does not mean the original theory is correct unless it itself has been proven. A classic example of this would be the search for extra-terrestrial life. While no one is able to satisfy the burden of proof that life does exist, no one is able to provide any more proof that life does not exist as there is equal evidence to both sides (The lack of ability to check for life is in conflict with the vastness of the universe). For the "Burden of Proof" to apply you must be attempting to disprove something which is already backed by evidence."

Considering for example Christians consider the bible evidence (I'm sure all religions must have something they consider evidence that they are right), the burden of proof is with the people trying to disprove it.

 

[Astral_]

Thats the difference between enlightened people(me,you...) and religious fanatics. Science is not perfect but when there is a mistake a scientist doesn't just cover his ears and keep believing in a false theory. Religion continues to assert that the same crap that has been proven wrong is right, saying such things as the world is 6000 years old when there is tons of evidence countering this.

Im all for people believing what they want, but when I hear that creationism should be taught as an opposing theory to evolution, I can't accept that.

Yeah, the whole creationism thing amazes me. The evolution/creationism debate does not even occur here in France, and probably not in Europe at all. I considered the theory of creationism but really cannot stand for anything in it. Planted dinosaur bones ??? Come on...

 

[WeaponXxX]

You know...I'm not an Athiest...I just don't believe in the bible that being sad I am pretty tolerate of almost every other religion besides Christianity because of this:

I feel that it is my job to find everyone who needs to be saved and introduce them to the gospel.


Getting "Saved"...I used to try and go with my ex wife to dinner with her church friends...we'd eat and have a great time, 5 minutes away from ending a good night I get the "You should come to our church" talk ... where I am pretty much badgered into going to church....the pushing of the religion is something I really can't tolerate...it is the fastest growing religion last I checked most likely because the weak minded are easily pursuaded from thinking for themselves. I often have a good laugh at Kirk Cameron on the jesus channel as he is teaching his viewers to force Christianity down the viewers friends, family and co-workers throats. "Now you may meet somebody as close as an Uncle," says Kirk "and he may not believe in christ and you need to sit him down and save him from going to hell make him BELIEVE".... There are some other religions that are pushy...I'd say more just trying to inform you of your "options" but being "saved" just irritates the hell out of me.

Consider it like someone has cancer and you know the cure to save that life you would do everything In your power to make sure cancer victims can live.

What about the hardcore Christians that let their kids DIE cause they think Jesus will save their child or...if the child dies it is God's will?

Funny story.... I wrecked my jeep on a dare and ripped my leg pretty nicely near off...real bad road rash... I walk in my friends door and her family has these African religious people....I don't know what they were....religion wise but they saw my leg and immediately surrounded me... praying in ?tounge? for my leg to heal...I was like Dude...I'm missing half my leg...what the hell do you think is gonna happen....then they go "How do you feel?"...I was like "Um....life I'm still missing half my leg!"

I actually gotta get back to this call...I;m gonna end on a quote from Hugh Laurie as Greggory House "Isn't Ironic you can't tell the difference between spiritual enlightened individuals...and those that are mentally ill?"

(Quoted from memory..not word for word)

 

[Azimuth]

Now, i defiantly know this post will either start a flame-war or get me verbally slapped by other disagreeing members but Christianity is a huge part of my life and it will always be. Also since Christianity is the truth and can save people form eternal damnation I feel that it is my job to find everyone who needs to be saved and introduce them to the gospel. Consider it like someone has cancer and you know the cure to save that life you would do everything In your power to make sure cancer victims can live.

this topic is important to me so I will stay on here for a bit. If anyone would like to either disprove my faith or ask questions, im ready and willing to answer and combat.

-From the Christian Fanboy

I understand your belief, but you talk as though you have been personally sent by god. Its not your responsibility to convert people or find people who need to be 'saved', and I assume anyone who isn't Christian needs to be saved right, cause we are all godless heathens going to hell and you are so much better than us.

I pray to you ohh great chalupa, save me from this life of reason and logic

Your arrogance amuses me.

 

[Costello]

About Christianism.
From my point of view - my conception of Christianism, you need to look beyond the mere facts. Each fact evoked in the bible, ordinary or extraordinary, possible or impossible, is meant to teach you something. It's not meant to impress you, it's not meant to make you swallow things like Jesus is some kind of superman.
It's meant to make you think, and draw your own conclusions.

Religion isn't what truly matters. In the name of religion, I've seen fanatics from every confession calling in the will of God. I've seen religion shine in the eyes of many murderers. Holiness, is to do what's right. To fight with bravery for the defenseless. What God wants, the goodness he demands, is in your brain and heart. And by your everyday choices you will proove yourself good... or not.

This (congratulations if you can find where this is taken from, as this is a very rough translation from french) is what I believe in. Extremism is dangerous, no matter what it is the extreme of. Islamic extremists, Christian extremists, etc.
What do religions praise? Religions praise peace, goodness. It's your choices that make you a good man.

 

[melloncollie]

Personally, I feel that life has no meaning at all.
We're simply living by mere chance and we will live and then we will die.
There is nothing more to it.
No divine meaning or purpose.
We live and we die.
No hereafter, no god, no universal truth, no universal good.
Everything is relative.

I also feel that religion is rather egocentric in that it holds humanity as being supreme to all but their god.
In a sense, religion (Christianity as my example) positions us to the height of god (e.g. we were created in god's image, everything was made for us, etc.).

Another note, no one can ever prove religion using facts or logic.
It's simply impossible.
What religion calls for is faith.
Faith is blind following (in the sense that one who has faith requires no proof to believe).
Therefore religion is blind.
Now, how could one possibly prove a religion?
Basically, one cannot prove an illogical thing using logic.
It just really gets my goat when someone tries to.

 

[henry_uk]

congratulations if you can find where this is taken from, as this is a very rough translation from french

Wikipedia?

What did I win?

 

[Costello]

Uh no, not wikipedia...

the thing I'm refering to is also available in english but I didn't have the english version so I used the french version and did this rough translation.

Sorry for the off topic.
Btw: I'm watching. No flame wars! No insults!
Antisemitism will be severely reprehended.


melloncollie:
how fatalistic.
I'll give a meaning to your life: be a good man, stop constantly seeking personal profit - directly or indirectly.
If you do so you will find a meaning in life, and this is no joke.

 

[BoneMonkey]

i love boobies