Marcan Clarifies

[FAST6191]

The problem with open consoles is that the games just are not the same caliber, at least not yet.

Had this been PS2 era then we might have come to an agreement but today they are pretty much the same thing give or take minor graphics differences.

Re "closing the thread on the portal"
Err it was linked to this thread and done so we do not have two separate lines of discussion.

 

[the_randomizer]

Feels like a very familiar scene with an in crowd of Devs. 31 people who have the means to develop for the Wii U so the general consensus is that there is no interest in actually developing for it. So what about the others who actually do have an interest in developing for it such as myself that isn't apart of this circle?

The 360 homebrew wasn't dead due to no interest, it was a lack of availability and the lack of any sort of combined community due to an "in crowd" of elitists. I was a homebrew developer for the 360, and I left the scene twice after attempting to get back into it due to the constant 'bullying' from these groups who only class the "in crowd" as actual developers and class everyone else as shit. The homebrew scene has been dying all around due to the online personas these people have which brings a lack of interest in being apart of that bullshit scene, but not a lack of interest in developing for these closed systems.

If they choose not to release any details, then that's fine, they discovered that information and they can do what they want with it, that's their choice. Just don't act like dickbags, act like elitist gods that you think you are, or bring others down in doing so.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for quite a while longer.

 

[Foxi4]

So from their point of view, it'd be detrimental to their views if they released it. So they do not release it. Sort of like how it'd be detrimental of me to include pics of my penis in this post. So I choose not to do it, and it's less work on top of it all, so win-win.

...do you really choose not to?

...or is the society forcing its draconian restrictions of penis distribution on you?

Rydian, take off the chains, Open Source your penis!

 

[Scuba156]

I wouldn't get your hopes up for quite a while longer.

My hopes for an actual homebrew scene that is full of people actually helping each other and creating a great community to be in died a long long time ago.

 

[Rydian]

...do you really choose not to?

...or is the society forcing its draconian restrictions of penis distribution on you?

Rydian, take off the chains, Open Source your penis!

(thaddius): I'm being forced to wear pants against my will, does that make our social structure immoral?
(AlanJohn): Yes
(thaddius): I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who wants to see my junk in public.

 

[Coto]

Feels like a very familiar scene with an in crowd of Devs. 31 people who have the means to develop for the Wii U so the general consensus is that there is no interest in actually developing for it. So what about the others who actually do have an interest in developing for it such as myself that isn't apart of this circle?

The 360 homebrew wasn't dead due to no interest, it was a lack of availability and the lack of any sort of combined community due to an "in crowd" of elitists. I was a homebrew developer for the 360, and I left the scene twice after attempting to get back into it due to the constant 'bullying' from these groups who only class the "in crowd" as actual developers and class everyone else as shit. The homebrew scene has been dying all around due to the online personas these people have which brings a lack of interest in being apart of that bullshit scene, but not a lack of interest in developing for these closed systems.

If they choose not to release any details, then that's fine, they discovered that information and they can do what they want with it, that's their choice. Just don't act like dickbags, act like elitist gods that you think you are, or bring others down in doing so.

Stuff like : "you call that math?!" "heck I did that while I was taking a ****" "How could you even not know y performs x while z is 1??!". There's a reason I'm on assembly at some architectures now, and it's love for knowledge, and maths behaviour. Not to say "look mom, I've hacked my *insert important computer name*, and you know what? I did it ALONE! "

Guess the army who built that CPU, GPU, mathematical physicians doesn't count, and the CPU came off some dogs**t. They're probably a few years ahead more smart, their logic is way better and more structured,and they do it for money, taking their jobs seriously. And the best of it, they're humans, as some of them can even give you support at, like IBM if you ask politely (as long it isn't tied to any specific contract or confidential data)

the piracy support to a newly released console could kill it instantly, too

 

[comex]

The sad thing is that there's a 100% chance I would be joining in the complaining if I weren't privy. Drives me crazy every time there's a cabal of people with access to the secret stuff (that they developed), whether it's Wii hacks or a pony-themed fighting game... for me, a large part of the reason is irrational and selfish, but it's still there.

 

[Taleweaver]

Then why not just release what they have? If they aren't interested, then let other people work on it.
They seem to think it's boring, then why not spice things up? Right now they actually have the power to make things interesting, but instead they're just like, "Meh we're not interested, so no one is interested."
That is my major issue with this.

But honestly if they did find an exploit, there is only time before more people find it, release it, and take credit for it.

For one, there is the legal mess. If they released it, it's only a matter of time before an iso loader will be released on the internet. And if it comes to a courtroom, they can be pointed to as accomplices because they have released the hack. Unlikely, yes...but considering they don't WANT to have an iso loader in the first place, I'd think twice before releasing it as well.
(wait...no...skip that. I wouldn't release it to begin with. And there wouldn't be a doubt about it)

What do you mean with "spice things up"? I know a couple programmers, and I really don't want to think about what would happen if they decide to skip the bug testing phase because it's "too boring".

I don't know who those 31 guys are, but I doubt they're random passers-by on the street. No doubt these are the sort of people who have the knowledge of actually USING the exploit for something.
And considering how few hackers I've seen on this site*, 31 is actually a pretty large number. Perhaps even large enough to wonder if the smaller number is the guys they leave out (read: the ones who just want to create iso loaders).

To put upright: who here actually WANTS that exploit? All I read is assumptions that "others" will know how to use it, but isn't that an assumption of itself? At least Marcan's talking in name of a part of the hacker scène.


On the last thing...yeah...it's certainly possible someone else finds it. And if that someone isn't a nintendo employee, he may actually release it. But TBH, I don't think anyone of that group is going to care about it, let alone change their mind about whether to release something for it.



*I mean hackers, here. Not script kiddies, beta testers, crackers, tweakers or anyone of that kind. I'm talking about someone who actually know how to do reverse engineering on a closed system and that sort of shit.

 

[Rydian]

The sad thing is that there's a 100% chance I would be joining in the complaining if I weren't privy. Drives me crazy every time there's a cabal of people with access to the secret stuff (that they developed), whether it's Wii hacks or a pony-themed fighting game... for me, a large part of the reason is irrational and selfish, but it's still there.

Yeah I don't really agree with their reasoning for withholding the info, but I don't think any of us can tell them they need to release anything (at least in the way many people here want to do).

 

[the_randomizer]

There has got to be something, we the members of the Temp, can do to help them

 

[Foxi4]

Right, I'm going to state my point of view in bulletpoints before I jetpack myself out of this thread:

• It is a huge shame, naturally.
• It is a big waste of tons of research and developers who are interested in development for the WiiU will have to unnecesarily go through the research phase again for no reason at all if they feel like coding for the system (unless they're planning to share the info with actual developers, this is to be seen) and that goes againts the "ideals" of Open Source development that seems to be praised on Android devices mentioned in the log.
• It is a bit of a cocktease and there is a degree of trolling here (hence the nick), but at the end of the day, it's their research and they do whatever they want with it.
• I am a little bit upset, even if only because this means that the waiting game continues when it really doesn't have to.
• They're entitled to do this. I'm a small-time hobbyst coder and I wouldn't want my code misused or literally copy-pasted without my blessing in projects that I find inappropriate either (even though all my libraries are Open Source and freely available, albeit not very useful since they're beginner-oriented).
• I'm not going to lie - I pirate stuff myself and I know for a fact that given the chance, I would pirate on the WiiU, so I can see how they assume that releasing this code would be a bad idea. It is a bad idea for them as it goes againts their beliefs - simple.
• ...that being said, it would be a great opportunity for Homebrew development at the same time. Using myself as an example, I only got the DS because I could pirate games on it and I ended up learning the basics of C, game development and I started using PALib, NightFox Lib and LibNDS... so the fact that I could run unsigned code allowed me to self-improve in a lot of areas.

We'll see what the future has in store for us - nobody knows what's going to happen.

 

[The Catboy]

*snip

I would like to rephrase some of my previous statements. I didn't look at this in the perspective of the piracy uses their code could provide, I was looking at it more in the idea of using it only for homebrews. I can be a little naive, not going to lie.
My wording such as "spicing things up" yeah not the best choice in words, but we all make mistakes in working. Honestly coming into this thread, I didn't think about the idea of piracy and was only thinking about the use of homebrews from this exploit. I was in the wrong in a lot of my posts and I apologize for that.

 

[the_randomizer]

Right, I'm going to state my point of view in bulletpoints before I jetpack myself out of this thread:

• It is a huge shame, naturally.
• It is a big waste of tons of research and developers who are interested in development for the WiiU will have to unnecessarily go through the research phase again for no reason at all if they feel like coding for the system (unless they will share the info with actual developers, this is to be seen).
• It is a bit of a cocktease and there is a degree of trolling here (hence the nick), but at the end of the day, it's their research and they do whatever they want with it.
• I am a little bit upset, even if only because this means that the waiting game continues when it really doesn't have to.
• They're entitled to do this. I'm a small-time hobbyist coder and I wouldn't want my code misused or literally copy-pasted without my blessing in projects that I find inappropriate either (even though all my libraries are Open Source and freely available, albeit not very useful since they're beginner-oriented).
• I'm not going to lie - I pirate stuff myself and I know for a fact that given the chance, I would pirate on the WiiU, so I can see how they assume that releasing this code would be a bad idea. It is a bad idea for them as it goes against their beliefs - simple.

We'll see what the future has in store for us - nobody knows what's going to happen.

There is so much potential that the Wii U and 3DS have homebrew-wise, so much that there could be a huge explosion of people wanting to develop code, and I hope that the potentiality of being a part of that scene isn't totally eradicated. From their standpoint, yes, it would be a major detriment should their code be leaked, hell, I admit that if I coded something for one reason but it was leaked and the code was altered for malicious purposes, I guess I'd be pretty effing pissed too.

 

[Rydian]

~

You do know that the development point they stopped at as well before apps an end-user can run is at, right? They're talking about the basic libraries for homebrew (as we know it) to be able to run in the first place.

Some issues were even named specifically.

 

[silver_ryder]

When people don't want to pay for there games, the way-out is to talk about open platforms, android, PC, homebrews, etc, etc.

But the truth is that if wasn't for gaming consoles most of the triple A games didn't exist...!

The truth is that android, IOS, isn't the best choice for some one that like to play triple A games, for some one whiling to pay for that kind of games, unfortunately most of the consumers prefer pick and play games, and pay little amounts for crappy games, DLC, unlocks of demos or to skip ads, etc,etc, and only because they prefer to play without spend money on quality games.

 

[Vappy]

You do know that the development point they stopped at as well before apps an end-user can run is at, right? They're talking about the basic libraries for homebrew (as we know it) to be able to run in the first place.

Some issues were even named specifically.

So drawing a comparison between this and what yifanlu has done with the Vita is quite apt, then? Both have a method to run code, it's just waiting for someone with the knowledge and interest required to put together an SDK.

 

[Rydian]

So drawing a comparison between this and what yifanlu has done with the Vita is quite apt, then? Both have a method to run code, it's just waiting for someone with the knowledge and interest required to put together an SDK.

Last I read (which was maybe two months ago), that was the case, so I'd say it's a similar situation yeah.

Most homebrew doesn't use the official SDK, so new libraries and such need to be written, and this isn't a simple process (if it's going to be done correctly).

 

[Vappy]

-

Those kind of consumers aren't exclusive to mobile devices. The 'freemium' model is gaining traction on PC as well, across all kinds of games, LoL/Dota, TF2, many modern MMOs. And with Ouya and Steambox consolising the mobile and PC market respectively, it's something that the Big Three of consoles, and all the triple-A developers, are eventually going to have to compete with directly, whether they like it or not.

 

[Hielkenator]

So basically he tells people there's no interest in hacking closed devices.
He's all about "the open systems" .
And it seems he likes to have fun, at coding.
Too lazy to struggle for a system that is just normal.
NINTY RELEASE SOME GODDAMN GAMES!!!!

Good for him.

To be clear I AM NOT IN THE MOBILE/ANDROID ETC MAINSTREAM.
Maybe it's because I'm to old, or the fact that everybody has one.
Also the provided media feels very, very cheap.
Almost like it's "too easy" to make something without any effort....

 

[Foxi4]

So drawing a comparison between this and what yifanlu has done with the Vita is quite apt, then? Both have a method to run code, it's just waiting for someone with the knowledge and interest required to put together an SDK.

yifanlu's UVLoader is not capable of running any form of game backups by proxy - it uses an existing application as a base and stores commands from the original code that can be used in homebrew development (ROP Programming) so that the system thinks it's running the original code (and for all intents and purposes it does - just in a different order). This is why it's called a "Userland" or "User Mode" exploit - it does not allow any Kernel access and no backup loading, just homebrew based on the code extracted from the base application.