Hacking Last Chance for Sourceflow. "100% Useless" - WiiFlow Dev

[spacepimp]

I really don't want to get involved but here's some things I would like to note. I see where going from page to page is a hassle and browsing covers would be slightly easier. but ...
how would selecting multiple sources be implemented?
who would create all these covers?
they would all be in alphabetical order and not the order you like.


just my thoughts.

The covers are no big deal, especially if something like smallbox homebrew grid view is used as detailed in my post here, but great point about multiple sources being selected, which I forgot to bring up in your thread spacepimp. This is a very important part of the Source Menu which cannot be overlooked for a possible alternative/replacement that your proposing. Perhaps a reply to his post in your thread would be more suitable Pimpin'.

These are valid questions and require a considered response.
1 - how would selecting multiple sources be implemented?
This is a question that has plagued the source menu, usually because the provided solutions involve using a wiimote button that has another use in the rest of wiiflow.
I am loathe to have any difference in use in the sourceflow than in the other coverflows, because the very idea is that it looks and feels the same as the rest of wiiflow
However - a plausible solution might be having a 'multi select' toggle button pop up on screen on the sourceflow page, replacing the 'next coverflow' button. Activating this button would then allow you to select and deselect multiple sources using the usual 'a' button. When you select the first game the, on screen multiselect button is replaced by a cancel and a launch button. obviously, pressing 'cancel' deselects all the selected sources, perhaps also turning off the multiselect toggle; and pressing 'launch' launches the multisource coverflow.

2 - who would create all these covers?
I'm sure you're happy MassiveRican has answered that question and I'd just add that coverflows for the sourceflow shouldn't be a problem either.

3 - they would all be in alphabetical order and not the order you like.
I would point out that the current source menu isn't editable from within wiiflow.
However, I might have to correct you there - it was possible in previous versions of wiiflow to grab (using A+B combo) and move covers into your preferred order - it may be that this code is still knocking about somewhere.
In which case the sourceflow would have an advantage over the source menu - thanks for reminding me!

Also, with the alphabetical order thing, i don't want to sound trite, but it may be that is actually an advantage when looking for things, i.e. having things in some order?
Furthermore, If we gave sources categories we would be able to group and order them by type, as you can with games, - eg 8 bit, 16 bit, 4th generation, handheld, home computer, etc.

You should get involved more often, fledge68

 

[spacepimp]

I've edited the OP, thanks to momin.

I want to make it clear to non-english speakers. If you have good (or bad) language skills could you have a look and comment?
thanks

 

[MassiveRican]

Adding a bit more to your reply

1 - how would selecting multiple sources be implemented?
This is a question that has plagued the source menu, usually because the provided solutions involve using a wiimote button that has another use in the rest of wiiflow.
I am loathe to have any difference in use in the sourceflow than in the other coverflows, because the very idea is that it looks and feels the same as the rest of wiiflow
However - a plausible solution might be having a 'multi select' toggle button pop up on screen on the sourceflow page, replacing the 'next coverflow' button. Activating this button would then allow you to select and deselect multiple sources using the usual 'a' button. When you select the first game the, on screen multiselect button is replaced by a cancel and a launch button. obviously, pressing 'cancel' deselects all the selected sources, perhaps also turning off the multiselect toggle; and pressing 'launch' launches the multisource coverflow.

I feel the same way about adding any other buttons just to use a certain feature in sourceflow, but there might be no other alternative, I myself have no issues with the SM using + to combine sources but the SM does feel like a pop up rather than an intergrated part of WiiFlow. Not so much like USBLoader-GX but the functionality is there and that's what's important. For a very long time users requested the ability to combine Wii & GC games and eventually requested the same of plugins. We wouldn't want to take away that feature just because some of us don't use it. I know I use it, why wouldn't others. Besides a toggle/select button there are button combinations shortcuts to consider to activate the multiple source selection option.

3 - they would all be in alphabetical order and not the order you like.
I would point out that the current source menu isn't editable from within wiiflow.
However, I might have to correct you there - it was possible in previous versions of wiiflow to grab (using A+B combo) and move covers into your preferred order - it may be that this code is still knocking about somewhere.
In which case the sourceflow would have an advantage over the source menu - thanks for reminding me!

Also, with the alphabetical order thing, i don't want to sound trite, but it may be that is actually an advantage when looking for things, i.e. having things in some order?
Furthermore, If we gave sources categories we would be able to group and order them by type, as you can with games, - eg 8 bit, 16 bit, 4th generation, handheld, home computer, etc.
[/USER]

Remember A+B now launch games immediately, another useful shortcut, which again requires changing things from the normal coverflow, I woudn't want to go that route either. Another solution might have to be proposed although if the Source Had Categories there would be no need for that anyway, a source with categories would be perfect IMO. I wouldn't mind categorizing things by console generation

 

[snikerz]

USB Loader GX's banner view is far better than Wiiflow ever was. I don't think improving Wiiflow is a worthwhile goal at all.

 

[spacepimp]

so why bother saying it?

 

[MassiveRican]

USB Loader GX's banner view is far better than Wiiflow ever was. I don't think improving Wiiflow is a worthwhile goal at all.

I wasn't talkin about banner view at all. I understand that u can see icons & banner with USBL-GX, it's basically like a SM view however I prefer WiiFlow much over USBL-GX, but thanks for your input.

 

[spacepimp]

Thanks for that, snikerz, i'm glad you took the time to post that. "Time you will never get back", you will remember on your deathbed, as the seconds tick tock.. ...tock.. ..tick...tock.... Mwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry

Adding a bit more to your reply

I feel the same way about adding any other buttons just to use a certain feature in sourceflow, but there might be no other alternative, I myself have no issues with the SM using + to combine sources but the SM does feel like a pop up rather than an integrated part of WiiFlow. Not so much like USBLoader-GX but the functionality is there and that's what's important. For a very long time users requested the ability to combine Wii & GC games and eventually requested the same of plugins. We wouldn't want to take away that feature just because some of us don't use it. I know I use it, why wouldn't others. Besides a toggle/select button there are button combinations shortcuts to consider to activate the multiple source selection option.

Remember A+B now launch games immediately, another useful shortcut, which again requires changing things from the normal coverflow, I woudn't want to go that route either. Another solution might have to be proposed although if the Source Had Categories there would be no need for that anyway, a source with categories would be perfect IMO. I wouldn't mind categorizing things by console generation

Well, the "next coverflow" button is kind of useless in the sourceflow - perhaps that is the ideal place...if that's what users want, and it's a solution that fits - great! I would prefer the on screen option, given that there's space. obviously there needs to be 2 buttons at the same time - as in cancel and launch - perhaps one of these could cover another button unlikely to be needed when 'multi-select is 'on'. I am open to suggestions.
TBH, I find multi button combos a bit arcane for the average user, and would prefer to avoid that solution.
I am familiar with the A+B quicklaunch option, in all honesty I would prefer an "A" double click to quick launch. A+B feels too useful and instinctive as a grab action. I have several ideas on how we might use it that way instead-
see touchscreen scrolling in sig

EDIT: I think in this instance - i.e. a custom 'flow you can drag and drop covers around - might be a useful addition suitable to the sourceflow's specific needs - not throughout wiiflow - and only if, of course, the code is just lying about somewhere...
_________________________________________________________________

The catagories thing is a really cool implementation - what would someone creating and editing the source categories need to know, is there someone with expertise in categories reading this?
Source categories I've suggested generation/ format (ie. handheld/ home computer)/ year published /manufacturer/ cpu (bit depth) / gpu?/ territories available & a.k.a./Numbers sold?/ number of available titles would be useful - could that be shown in the same way?
Anyone have any other ideas for useful categories for sources?

 

[FIX94]

now lets finally clarify that stuff here - I havent got a problem with that idea since they are quite alot of people using the source menu - at the moment I cant add it cause of wiiflows unstable core especially with themes. If we can get out a stable wiiflow rev again I can add that feature, sure thing. Its not like wiiflow cant handle a 3D coverflow cause well it displays 3D coverflows all the time

 

[MassiveRican]

I agree wholeheartedly with what Fix94 just said, I was going to mention that it might be another 6 months before we even see any code written to support something like this but hey atm stability needs to be improved and u finally got a clear response there Pimpin' congrats on your efforts

 

[spacepimp]

*shucks* Thanks for your help and support , and thanks to everyone who asked provoking and thought out questions, and especially those who contributed support and ideas - you know who you are.
And thanks to FIX94-WHOOOPWHOOP (etc. - I am well pleased)

let's make sourceflow a belter!
____________________________________________________________________________

Just wanted to add that it's the community at large who've spoken up and changed the devs minds, so thank you!

 

[spacepimp]

Time to sober up - Fix has said it may be some time before sourceflow gets a look from him, but if he says it'll get done, i trust him - SourceFlow IS going to happen
Bonus - it gives plenty of time to get some basics ready, some artwork up here, and prepare Fix a simple, precise idea of what's needed when he has time to look at it, hey, Fix might fancy doing it early just to see how it fits together!
MassiveRican - your refinement is the songbook we're all reading from!!! - what kind of minimum and maximum numbers of covers in a 'flow where you thinking about? Readability would have them arranged in an orderly rectangle but how orderly, and more importantly, how twisted!?

I'm looking at you drakorex - although not in a sexy way, D - this was meant to comically illustrate "twisted" - I hope no offence is incurred.

Enough of this! Having spines would be really helpful - but a back cover - would that be big enough to hold any readable text? (Perhaps simplified - e.g. GameBoy reverse: "4th Gen, 8-bit, Nintendo, Handheld, 1989"),
My pet idea of an in-game picture to indicate the console's graphical capabilities might be too big for such a small space.
What kind of Artwork Would be best instead of these options?
Given the size of the sourceflow buttons we're starting with (are we?) - Bottom Line - How big shall we make the covers ?

A really exciting idea MassiveR highlighted is CATAGORIES for SOURCES!!!!!!!!
Have you any ideas for a few - and do you know who might know how to help write and edit these and add them to the categories file?

aceflimp

 

[drakorex]

Time to sober up - Fix has said it may be some time before sourceflow gets a look from him, but if he says it'll get done, i trust him - SourceFlow IS going to happen
Bonus - it gives plenty of time to get some basics ready, some artwork up here, and prepare Fix a simple, precise idea of what's needed when he has time to look at it, hey, Fix might fancy doing it early just to see how it fits together!
MassiveRican - your refinement is the songbook we're all reading from!!! - what kind of minimum and maximum numbers of covers in a 'flow where you thinking about? Readability would have them arranged in an orderly rectangle but how orderly, and more importantly, how twisted!?

I'm looking at you drakorex - although not in a sexy way, D - this was meant to comically illustrate "twisted" - I hope no offence is incurred.

Enough of this! Having spines would be really helpful - but a back cover - would that be big enough to hold any readable text? (Perhaps simplified - e.g. GameBoy reverse: "4th Gen, 8-bit, Nintendo, Handheld, 1989"),
My pet idea of an in-game picture to indicate the console's graphical capabilities might be too big for such a small space.
What kind of Artwork Would be best instead of these options?
Given the size of the sourceflow buttons we're starting with (are we?) - Bottom Line - How big shall we make the covers ?

A really exciting idea MassiveR highlighted is CATAGORIES for SOURCES!!!!!!!!
Have you any ideas for a few - and do you know who might know how to help write and edit these and add them to the categories file?

aceflimp

Biggest covers are SNES/N64. For the backs, list the emulators features, with a couple popular game screenshots.

 

[spacepimp]

Biggest covers are SNES/N64. For the backs, list the emulators features, with a couple popular game screenshots.

What i mean is - it'd be great to have something that big, but do you think that would fit with M.R.'s idea - that kind of needs small covers, right? How big are the source menu buttons? do you already have something kicking about, is that what you mean when you say "snes/64 are biggest"? or you mean the emu covers?

 

[drakorex]

What i mean is - it'd be great to have something that big, but do you think that would fit with M.R.'s idea - that kind of needs small covers, right? How big are the source menu buttons? do you already have something kicking about, is that what you mean when you say "snes/64 are biggest"? or you mean the emu covers?

Well I mean you could zoom the covers out to be as big or small as you want, but I would think emu covers would be the way to go if you want more than a basic little picture, otherwise you'll be lookin at some blurry ass pixels.

 

[spacepimp]

Cool with me - i'm just thinking of MassiveRican's refinement - what are your thoughts?
Also, anyone reckon that Idea of animating the transition between sourceflow and coverflow - so as the coverflow leaves the screen in one direction - the sourceflow enters from the opposite direction - is this possible?
The point is that you could infer moving between a 2 tier folder structure if you go 'up' towards the sourceflow, and down to the coverflows - or even the coverflows disappear into the distance and sourceflow appears from behind you - you' feel like you're moving between strata -between 2 big bubbles - inside and outside - u get me?

 

[MassiveRican]

Sorry worked literally 12+ hours today, and my head feels like it's going to implode, I'll take a look at the past few posts tomorrow and comment, I can't think straight right now lol.

 

[spacepimp]

No rush - we literally have months!
Thanks, as always, for your input, yo!
p.s. don't know why I put "yo" at the end there.
______________________________________________________
actually, while I'm here - the idea is to have sourceflowlook and feel similar to the other coverflows - but with allowances for functionality. So broadly, we're agreed on the idea that favourite, delete catagories help etc. should all be identical ?
Just as a refinement to the above multiselect idea - a second button isn't required as 'B' could cancel, and the multi button could simply turn into a launch button. The other alternative to the above replacement of 2 pop menu items, is to have the multi menu buton switch on a popup that includes the launch/cancel option - this would also provide a visual indicator that multi is switched on while allowing the po-up menu to hide again.

 

[MassiveRican]

Hi guys, well my idea was literally a clone of brewflow, where the icon.png was used as a smallbox, but a little more refined/tweaked to allow for say the size of current source menu icons in 3D, and u can have anywhere from 8-12 icons in a grid like coverflow, if I can I'll post a pic. A lot of work has gone into the current source menu and I would like to see the efforts that have currently gone into making 5000+ source menu icons succeed into the Next-Gen SourceFlow.

I like the idea of having full covers with info of the console and screenies on the back, so when clicked the camera would zoom in and flip the cover 180 but the more I think about it the less practical it seems. Users including myself will want a fast, no thrills way to scroll through systems, which is what we have with the current source menu; click & view. I don't want to hit play to view games for the system I choose or anything like that, I want to click and view. It's got to focus on the most important aspect which is quickly viewing, choosing and playing games. The animations on how it goes into the flow are all cool, but it's secondary to that. I'm not really going to comment on how it can be done and I'll leave that to theme animators and devs to see the cool shit they can come up with or how it must be implemented (and of course for u to keep throwin' ideas left and right 'Pimpin )

The idea is to have sourceflow look and feel similar to the other coverflows - but with allowances for functionality

Excellently well put spacepimp. So yes favorites and categories in my mind should work identical to any other view with multi-select being the only thing so far that I can think of which would require a possible button/removal addition, or maybe even a B+icon combination to keep things neat. SourceFlow.ini would still determine the amount of 3D "icons/covers" that would be in your SourceFlow.

Here is a very simple way to go about this, in SourceFlow there is no need for a mode view button, remove it and add a multi-select button, when used you can easily choose your consoles with the "A" button and change pages with +/- just like every other view (Now everyone's happy, looking at u Drakorex ). Problem solved for real this time

 

[MassiveRican]

Here's another idea that just popped up in my head, just like Homebrew where you can choose to have full covers or use smallbox view, I say the same thing can be done for SourceFlow. Just another way to satisfy all FlowHeads.

U want a SourceFlow where source menu icons can be used in 3D? U got it. U want a SourceFlow that has full covers? U got it. Any other bases that need to be covered?? Bring it on

 

[spacepimp]

MassiveRican nails it again! Massively loving your work, squire.

Couple of additions/suggested modifications -

In the small icon set - homebrewflow 'clone' - speed is of the essence, - 1 click launches, baddabing.
+++Compatible with the vast amount of artwork already created for the source_menu !!!

Optional Full - Size 3D set - functions more like wii game coverflow - with potential for-
- full info reverse cover w/screenshots and other text related to the console
- secondary view - favourite/delete/etc icon set - (one day) with banners!!!!!!!!

I concur!

Ideally, covers based on courceflow icons for 2D front covers on a 3D box should also allow for complete 3D wraparounds alongside. I mean in the same coverflow.
To allow the full gamut of coverflow options, you really do need a full wrap-around solution - spines, for example - are inherently useful. Perhaps the 'standard' small set could be 3D - this might give source menu icon artists an incentive to add a spine and back. What could we realistically fit on the back, given it's the same resolution as a source_menu icon?

Alternatively - Is it possible to use an imported source menu icon as the front cover - but still see the spine and back from the generic cover?

I was wondering if screenshots displayed middle distance at 50% alpha, of whatever cover has focus - might be a nice way of giving an idea of the graphical capabilities of the console.

4x3 =12 covers per 'page''
I personally would like to see coverflows of much higher numbers - how high does the homebrewflow go? I'm sure it's higher than 4x3 - and that in itself could be a really creative space for coverflow makers. i.e. lots of small covers - legible - readable from a distance.

How's this sounding so far, drakorex? See anything you fancy