1. RY0M43CH1Z3N

    RY0M43CH1Z3N Touching things and improving your world
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    Press F to pay respect.
     
  2. Nollog

    Nollog GBAtemp Addict
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    More developers gone, what a wonderful scene this generation has been...
     
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  3. regnad

    regnad Button Masher
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    Are these the choices they want to make, or are these the choices they feel forced to make?

    If circumstances were different I imagine we wouldn't be seeing them shut down.
     
  4. Itsuki235

    Itsuki235 GBAtemp Regular
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    1. Kosmos had something to do with fss0= style booting it BECAUSE they had that as the default configuration when there was no need to have it set up that way. They could have used the payload= syntax some of the time.
    2. It is better off unused with newer versions of Atmosphere because it complicates the loading of patches. With payload= syntax, all the patches and kips load automatically.
    3. fss0= style admosphere loading is not perfect for people who wanted to load patches without ideological BS for why they don't need this or that patch. Kosmos stopped bundling any patches with their configs, they never included acid, which makes Kosmos style booting "broken out-of-the box" for many users. The reasons they didn't include patches and the counter arguments are ideological BS which 99% people do not give a damn about.
    4. You KNOW it is a hack because fss0= style loading works by manually extracting modules from fusee-secondary.bin and then loading them. This meant that hekate had to be updated every time atmosphere changed stuff. There was no need for this if they were fully independent (as they are with payload= style booting) because hekate was basically hacking fusee-secondary.bin to load atmosphere in an unsupported way. Go ask ReSwitched if they support fss0= style booting if you have any doubts. This is also why the patch/kip patches loading was not automatic, because they were not applied when hekate extracts out the modules to process and then boot.
     
    Last edited by Itsuki235, May 13, 2020 - Reason: updated in response to feedback
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  5. tom2199

    tom2199 GBAtemp Regular
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    1. Well it has to be set up that way if you want sysnand and emunand boot as seperate entities (which is very handy btw)
    2. Hekate just needs different patches (and a setting to use them, a big pro imo because you can disable them for different configurations)
    3. Kosmos didn't supplied patches for at least a year now, they linked to joonies/Harukos patches instead on the release page. Haruko didn't supply ES patches for a while, but he does now. So they are complete, you just have to download them seperately (exactly like atmosphere patches).
    4. I don't know what ReSwitched would say, all I know is that it is damn handy to have multiple configurations a tap away, the patches are exactly as 'hard' to install as atmosphere ones, and Atmosphere has support for fss0, at least in the case of hekate.

    You said yourself that kosmos could've had used payload= only some of the time, so there is no doubt that fss0 booting is more versitile and allows for much finer control and configuration of Atmosphere, all bundled within multiple configuration options a tap away. Why anyone would consider this a con is beyond me.
     
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  6. Kilim

    Kilim ReiNX Official Dad™
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    to the average user who just wants to play video games and doesn't give a shit about """"configurations"""" or """"features"""" its a mess that just serves to confuse the enduser for no reason

    kosmos is, and always has been, a glorified zip file used to dumb down the general userbase and im all for it dying, regardless of my 'allegiances'.
     
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  7. x65943

    x65943 Dr. Rabbi Prince X, Sr., Ed. D.
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    but it was a convenient zip folder

    now who will zip all my files for me? I'm taking applications
     
  8. Kilim

    Kilim ReiNX Official Dad™
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    donate to my patreon and we'll talk
     
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  9. WiiHomebrew+Snes

    OP WiiHomebrew+Snes GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    as a proud supporter of 7Zip, I will zip any files as long as they are sponsored by 7Zip. This message brought to you by the National Institution of Many Real Official Dudes, or NIMROD.
     
  10. Itsuki235

    Itsuki235 GBAtemp Regular
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    1. Incorrect. For the emuMCC entry, it could be set up as payload= and have the same functionality. Only the sysnand CFW entry needed the fss0= syntax. The emuMMC CFW entry never did.
    2. Except that there is no reason to disable them, especially with emuMMC CFW, and most people just wanted them to always load and everything to just work "out of the box". Thus fss0= style booting is best off unused most of the time, and absolutely should not be the default setting.
    3. True, except when it is false, which it is for a certain piece of very important software that implements CSE when it detects Haruko's patches.ini. Again, people do not care about ideological about why this or that doesn't work or why they shouldn't be using that piece of software. With "payload=" syntax everything works, which (unfairly) but nonetheless does mean that "fss0=" style booting is needlessly complicated for people.
    4. Atmosphere doesn't support fss0= style booting, only Hekate does which is why it is a hack, because Atmosphere does not natively support it. The part where hekate needs to get updated to use that "fss0=" syntax (but not for payload= syntax) is a litmus test for why "fss0=" style booting a hack. There is nothing wrong with it being a hack in and of itself, but it is a hack: an way of obtaining functionality that the software program was never intended to have.

    See #1.

    It is a con because it does not need to be used for that boot entry. payload= syntax would not change the behavior of that boot entry and using fss0= for the "CFW EMUMMC" boot entry needlessly complicates loading of patches for that boot entry.

    That boot entry is also the one that everyone was basically always trying to use so it was the de-facto "default" boot entry. Team Atlas had no technical need to break things by including fss0= style booting in that boot entry and yet they did so anyway.

    I do agree with you that Team Atlas did a lot of positive things for the scene, especially for new users, but using that "fss0=" style booting instead of "payload=" for that boot entry did a lot of harm. In terms of how the technology works, the scene will benefit from being united now compared to before because the principle entity that supported that technologically inferior way to boot atmosphere in an emuMMC CFW configuration (primary one for many people) will be dropping its support for it.

    Hopefully that will lesson the need for 2 different sets of patches needing to be maintained going forward.
     
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  11. tom2199

    tom2199 GBAtemp Regular
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    Well, I disagree. It's not the fault of hekate/CTCaer that blawar decided to block certain patches. If anything, it is his fault, and his fault alone. Would it be better if hekate used the same patching system Atmos does? Arguably yes, but nonetheless it's working exactly as intended just as well as the atmos system.
    As for the other points, the emummac entry would not use emummcforce if it would be using payload=, a feature that is useful if you want to make absolutely sure not to boot sysmmc.
    Hekate needs to be updated, yes, but so does fusee-primary. I think you're grasping for straws, if it wouldn't be for blawar, this would not be the mess you describe it to be.
     
  12. Goffrier

    Goffrier GBAtemp Regular
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    upload_2020-5-13_2-31-14.png

    @tom2199

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    since you seem so concerned about hekate patches blocking
     
  13. tom2199

    tom2199 GBAtemp Regular
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    Does that mean someone is devoloping a hekate fork with Atmos patching system?
     
  14. akira022

    akira022 Advanced Member
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    My questions is that I have only one ipatched switch and am wondering what this will mean for ipatched switches updated? Especially since I cannot solder.(disability issue)
     
  15. blawar

    blawar Developer
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    You are mistaken, sysnand and emunand boot fine without hekate or kosmos or fss0. There is no reason for fss0 to exist.

    Tinfoil will even switch you between sysnand and emunand with vanilla atmosphere.
     
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  16. Goffrier

    Goffrier GBAtemp Regular
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    @tom2199 no,it means blawar WILL be removing thoses blocks for hekate
     
  17. TotalJustice

    TotalJustice GBAtemp Fan
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    This really is a shame.
     
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  18. tom2199

    tom2199 GBAtemp Regular
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    Oh thats nice. Props @blawar
    I know tinfoil has the option to do that, I simply like making the configurations exactly as I want and choosing them at boot, like a bootloader should do. Not using an app before reboot, potentially having to boot into a nand just to use the app and reboot. Just my personal option that that's the imo best way to do it, at least for me and my setup
     
  19. blawar

    blawar Developer
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    I would like to clarify that this move is predicated on noone else releasing a cfw package that uses fss0 by default. Newbs arent going to configure fss0 themselves, so if noone is actively distributing it, there is no reason to block it.
     
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  20. evertonstz

    evertonstz GBAtemp Regular
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    To the people glad a project got down due to toxicity, remember toxicity is a double edged sword. People should just learn to ignore things they don't like, just like most fully developed adults would. Don't know if the community is mainly composed by kids or the console just attracts more immature people or something like that. But I think most people will agree this community isn't normal.

    Anyone wanna place bets on what will be the next project to bite the dust?
     
    Last edited by evertonstz, May 13, 2020
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