Is Nintendo running on brand loyalty?

[Juanmatron]

Mayora's Mask is like a sequel. Don't tell me now Super Mario Galaxy 2 is the natural succesor of Super Mario Galaxy.

Original Game - Natural Succesor
Super Mario 64 - Super Mario Galaxy
Ocarina of Time - ???

Last time I checked a successor is what comes after a predecessor.

Don't bullshit this with "natural successors" and what not. Majora's Mask came after Ocarina of Time. It's a successor. Super Mario Sunshine came after Super Mario 64. It's a successor.

But if you really want something to fit your "family tree"...

Ocarina of Time - Twilight Princess.

EDIT: Typo.

Do you really think that Twilight Princess is the natural successor to Ocarina of Time? Honestly in all my time playing the game I did not think at any time that the game world was the Hyrule of Ocarina of Time Zelda so it's as if Aonuma and his team did not want to play or would not be able to try to overcome Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past. Please believe me then I would like to recap a bit.

* Majora's Mask takes place in a completely different world to Hyrule named "Termina".
* The Wind Waker action happens in a world that although they say it's Hyrule, in fact it is because it is a world all its own in itself.
* The Hyrule from the Twilight Princess is another world apart from the classic Hyrule.
* Apparently Skyward Sword happen in another world completely foreign to the Hyrule of life.
* That's without taking about the worlds of Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

I'm not saying it's bad that Aonuma and his team propose new worlds, why should we criticize Retro Studios to do the same with Metroid, but that will not do a Zelda to return to the classic Hyrule instead they make us new worlds to visit makes me think that just do not feel like it.
So ... do not kid yourself, Aonuma and his team don't want to make a spiritual successor of "Ocarina of Time", is unwilling to continue with the classic Zeldas, who expect one so he deceives himself and is sad that I personally have been deceived so long. Who was going to say that Ocarina of Time was the last time he would visit the classic Hyrule...

 

[Master Mo]

Haven`t really followed this thread and I don`t really care for the discussions here about sequels (

) but I thank god, that Nintendo is still making these games. I would be quite mad if they would stop doing them I guess

Honestly I couldn`t live without Mario-, Zelda- or Metroid-games

I also really don`t mind them, that they tend to use familiar characters in different contexts (genres), since storytelling is not really a strength of Nintendo and therefor Characters are often just a skin for a gameplay-idea... (like Luigis Mansion or KirbyEY, which I both adore - and where the f**k is my Luigis Mansion NPC

... would be great with pointer).

 

[Rydian]

... doesn't majora's Mask happen right after OOT, to THE SAME LINK?

 

[MFDC12]

... doesn't majora's Mask happen right after OOT, to THE SAME LINK?

thats what i was saying earlier too. video for Juanmatron to watch

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I wish people would stop BAWWWing about EVERY fucking game.

Oh, and there's nothing I hate more than someone using the words "true" or "real" before the word fan. These so-called "true" Metroid and Sonic "fans" (among others) are fucking ridiculous. There were actually people complaining about Sonic having green eyes when Sonic 4 was revealed. What. The. Hell.

Anyway, in response to the original post, of course they are. But so is every other major company in the industry. They're going to keep selling Mario/Zelda games for as long as people keep buying them. It's just good sense.

 

[Juanmatron]

... doesn't majora's Mask happen right after OOT, to THE SAME LINK?

thats what i was saying earlier too. video for Juanmatron to watch

I know that. That is called "sequel". I'm talking about a succesor, referring to the gameplay (making them better), not history.

 

[monkat]

... doesn't majora's Mask happen right after OOT, to THE SAME LINK?

thats what i was saying earlier too. video for Juanmatron to watch

I know that. That is called "sequel". I'm talking about a succesor, referring to the gameplay (making them better), not history.

....what?

The gameplay in any 3D Zelda game is exactly the same, save for a new controller....

 

[Juanmatron]

... doesn't majora's Mask happen right after OOT, to THE SAME LINK?

thats what i was saying earlier too. video for Juanmatron to watch

I know that. That is called "sequel". I'm talking about a succesor, referring to the gameplay (making them better), not history.

....what?

The gameplay in any 3D Zelda game is exactly the same, save for a new controller....

There’s a huge difference between the Aonuma Zeldas and Miyamoto Zeldas. Where Miyamoto made rich and dynamic overworlds, Aonuma makes poor and static ones.

From the first Zelda to Ocarina of Time, the overworld was growing, not (just) in size, but what you could do in it and what it held inside. The first Zelda doesn’t even make a difference between overworld and dungeons. The way how the game is played is the same (no puzzles to solve or anything), except the triggers where you have to kill the enemies to advance to the next room.

A Link to the Past had some puzzle elements in it, which mostly consisted of finding the master key to get to the boss, but beating the dungeon usually gave you something useful in the overworld.

Ocarina of Time had dungeons with frustrating backtracking, but getting the item usually gave a new way to experience the overworld (that was huge, full of content).

Majora’s Mask had lots of events in the overworld, but after the 37?th time you had played through the same events to see whether Kafei had checked his mail, started to become boring.

Wind Waker didn’t have much of an overworld, an island on each square of the map, shooting enemies with the cannon and what you could find was a treasure under the sea with your grappling hook. Getting a new item from a dungeon didn’t even allow you to experience the overworld in a new fashion.

Twilight Princess looked like a huge improvement and going back to OoT from the surface, but the game felt like playing the OoT Kokiri forest over and over again without the people in it and without surprises to find.

Phanton Hourglass had the same idea as Wind Waker, except that you had to solve puzzles in the overworld just as well.

As far as I’m concerned, Spirit Tracks can stay on the store shelf. I’m not buying it because it obviously isn’t what I consider as a Zelda game.

Everything in Zelda basically revolves around the overworld and how you can play it.

I didn’t write this despite of being a Zelda fan, I wrote it BECAUSE of being one.

I won't say anything more. Only this:

 

[monkat]

I didn’t write this despite of being a Zelda fan, I wrote it BECAUSE of being one.

Frankly, chill.

Just because you have imaginary standards for what a Zelda game should be, doesn't mean you're right about the definition of successor.

Period.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I didn’t write this despite of being a Zelda fan, I wrote it BECAUSE of being one.

Ugh. What an utterly obnoxious and arrogant individual you have proven to be.

 

[Ossot]

I answered yes, but I'm an inbetween. Nintendo is not running on brand loyalty with it's SOFTWARE.

It is, however, running on brand loyalty when it comes to its hardware, more specifically, the Wii. It lacks features which are beyond expected in this generation. No HD, no native movie playback, not even DVD, virtual console is all but dead, no indie development, a small collection of wiiware, horrible online system, and they absolutely fail to back 3rd party devs.

So while everyone is arguing Zelda. That's great. Despite what you think of Zelda, Zelda will never be a problem for nintendo. Nor will any of it's IP. It's problem is everything else. You think Mario can move units on a Wii, make a beautiful HD one and release it over xbla and PSN and see how many units it moves. Or, god forbid, a Super Smash Bros versus Marvel type game in HD with online through XBLA and PSN.

I adore Nintendo. It was my first real console. I've owned every single system they've released. But I would love nintendo more if they would follow Sega's suit and just go software only. Develop games nintendo. You innovated with some hardware, but software is the real reason you're loved today.

 

[Shinigami357]

Sorry but no. Nintendo is doing very well to destroy their franchise. They killing Metroid, they killing Kirby, they kill StarTropics, they already killed StarFox, and I'm sure they won't make another F-Zero because one simply reason: Miyamoto couldn't do a better job than Amusement Vision with F-Zero GX.

Oh, and same with DKC. I hate how everybody only talks about all the good of Miyamoto. I would like to talk about how bad designer is and the trouble that Miyamoto is disgustingly guard with their sagas, to the point that if someone does it better than he, he send the game into oblivion or simply change the rules of title or what is the same: Change the gameplay.

Destroy??? What, one game destroys a franchise, that's it? Are you even reading what you are typing right now? The fact that people actually wait, and clamor and more-or-less get excited by an upcoming nintendo AAA title means the franchises are far from dead. Sure, some franchises get the preferential treatment, but pretty soon they all come out into the consumers' hands anyway. Kirby is back, kid icarus is due out soon, even starfy (game i don't know crap about) was made for DS.

All you're spouting is your biased opinions. Go out there and worship Sony or MS or some crap. Miyamoto hater.

 

[Juanmatron]

Sorry but no. Nintendo is doing very well to destroy their franchise. They killing Metroid, they killing Kirby, they kill StarTropics, they already killed StarFox, and I'm sure they won't make another F-Zero because one simply reason: Miyamoto couldn't do a better job than Amusement Vision with F-Zero GX.

Oh, and same with DKC. I hate how everybody only talks about all the good of Miyamoto. I would like to talk about how bad designer is and the trouble that Miyamoto is disgustingly guard with their sagas, to the point that if someone does it better than he, he send the game into oblivion or simply change the rules of title or what is the same: Change the gameplay.


Destroy??? What, one game destroys a franchise, that's it? Are you even reading what you are typing right now? The fact that people actually wait, and clamor and more-or-less get excited by an upcoming nintendo AAA title means the franchises are far from dead. Sure, some franchises get the preferential treatment, but pretty soon they all come out into the consumers' hands anyway. Kirby is back, kid icarus is due out soon, even starfy (game i don't know crap about) was made for DS.

All you're spouting is your biased opinions. Go out there and worship Sony or MS or some crap. Miyamoto hater.

The problem is if Sakamoto decides Metroid gonna be like Other M and launch Other M 2 and Kirby gonna be like Epic Yarn forever.

And, no. They killing Metroid, they killing Kirby and they already killed StarFox.

By the way, I prefer Nintendo over Microsoft/Sony, but Nintendo is doing bad. They back to use N64/GCN philosophy. This isn't bad? Well, then look this:

How do you explain this if is the "right thing"?

Oh, and yes. Don't tell me "Miyamoto hater" when what I said is true. There's a problem when the producer becomes an "artist", the difference between a producer and an artist is that one are looking for please consumers while the second himself. In case of Nintendo that we have repeated one of the endemic ills of "Industry", the transformation of the editor in "artist" and head of all of them have the "untouchable" Miyamoto. Do you think I exaggerate? Then you have little memory.

* Miyamoto is who after Iwata said Wii Music was a fiasco for not moving consoles, said it was the fault of consumers have not learned to appreciate. But don't worry, all we know Wii Music is just perfect.
* Miyamoto is the one who was for years against the development of a Super Mario Bros, wine Takeshi Tezuka and launched NSMB DS and sold millions of copies and forcing his appearance on Wii against the real wishes of Miyamoto, who believes consumers should be educated to play with derivatives of Super Mario 64.
* Miyamoto is Nintendo's manager who continuously keeps saying he would like a Wii HD.
* Miyamoto thinks is a good idea make ports of GCN titles (New Play Control), there's no problem here, but the real problem is only ports for games produced by he. You think I mad? Then, why F-Zero GX doesn't have a port for Wii and Chibi Robo (largest sales fiasco than F-Zero GX) has it?
*Oh, and he's the guy who said DKC: Returns doesn't need cooperative mode likes other DKC games.

In the present, I respect more producers of Nintendo than Miyamoto like Takeshi Tezuka, Toshihiko Nakago and Kensuke Tanabe.

 

[Shinigami357]

Yeah, right... Come up with something that isn't

1. QQ-ing at any slightly different game nintendo releases
2. Tomb raiding fior some franchises that are currently in hibernation
3. Bashing Miyamoto.
4. Thinking you know and are absolutely right about everything nintendo.

then perhaps you'll be taken seriously. You think your judgment is the gold standard to what nintendo does??? Get over yourself, troll.


@Graph - dude. whoever made that is seriously sniffing coke and pot at the same time. Does he not know about basic economics??? Supply and demand? Market share? What was competition back in NES days compared to GC days??? Are you seriously huffing that shit and accepting it as fact???

 

[Kwartel]

I dunno in other countries, but in Holland half of the kids has a DS and a Wii at home.. so it doesn't run on loyal gamers, but on rich parents.

 

[KingVamp]

I answered yes, but I'm an inbetween. Nintendo is not running on brand loyalty with it's SOFTWARE.

It is, however, running on brand loyalty when it comes to its hardware, more specifically, the Wii. It lacks features which are beyond expected in this generation. No HD, no native movie playback, not even DVD, virtual console is all but dead, no indie development, a small collection of wiiware, horrible online system, and they absolutely fail to back 3rd party devs.

So while everyone is arguing Zelda. That's great. Despite what you think of Zelda, Zelda will never be a problem for nintendo. Nor will any of it's IP. It's problem is everything else. You think Mario can move units on a Wii, make a beautiful HD one and release it over xbla and PSN and see how many units it moves. Or, god forbid, a Super Smash Bros versus Marvel type game in HD with online through XBLA and PSN.

I adore Nintendo. It was my first real console. I've owned every single system they've released. But I would love nintendo more if they would follow Sega's suit and just go software only. Develop games nintendo. You innovated with some hardware, but software is the real reason you're loved today.

What, have you been looking at other companies? Because of daring innovations, other companies started to copy them. Plus without their new hardware innovations, improvements and experiences of games would have been lost.Go Sega? psssh...

Anyway yes brand loyalty with software at some periods of time and then other parties come out of nowhere.

 

[Juanmatron]

Yeah, right... Come up with something that isn't

1. QQ-ing at any slightly different game nintendo releases
2. Tomb raiding fior some franchises that are currently in hibernation
3. Bashing Miyamoto.
4. Thinking you know and are absolutely right about everything nintendo.

then perhaps you'll be taken seriously. You think your judgment is the gold standard to what nintendo does??? Get over yourself, troll.


@Graph - dude. whoever made that is seriously sniffing coke and pot at the same time. Does he not know about basic economics??? Supply and demand? Market share? What was competition back in NES days compared to GC days??? Are you seriously huffing that shit and accepting it as fact???

1º Any objections lady?
2º Franchises in hibernation like StarFox, F-Zero, StarTropics, Ice Climbers, Devil World and etc? Only Retro Studios can bringing life to old franchises that Nintendo has run into the ground. They do it awesome with Metroid and pretty well with DK.
3º Okay okay, Wii Music is just perfect and is our fault.
4º I only know N64/GCN just fail, but why if is that "correct"?

Look how troll I am: I hate Miyamoto/Sakamoto/Aonuma's philosophy, I hate Sony PlayStation for begin the cinematic era, I hate Heavy Rain, I like Super Mario Bros. 3 over Super Mario World and I LOVE chocolate (Doc Louis cameo

). I'm just a pure fanboy!!

 

[Ossot]

What, have you been looking at other companies? Because of daring innovations, other companies started to copy them. Plus without their new hardware innovations, improvements and experiences of games would have been lost.Go Sega? psssh...

Anyway yes brand loyalty with software at some periods of time and then other parties come out of nowhere.

Oh for sure, xbox and sony did indeed copy them. They want to hit the mass market as well. They want random mommies and daddies and 4 year olds. But this is gbatemp, so I figured the demographic I was speaking with would be more interested in what we would consider hardcore and triple AAA titles, not dancing game clones. Nintendo's recent innovations changed what I would call generic gaming. They created what I would call a superficial extra. Even a game that uses the Wiimote properly is hardly earth shatteringly unique. Twilight Princess is twilight princess. Mario is Mario. Perhaps its due to the large amount of shovelware and waggle fests that I, and most, have such a jaded view of motion controls, but I've never played a game where I felt without the motion controls it would be any less of a game, nor have I played a game where I desperately wanted motion controls. Again, I think moms and dads and little kids LOVE the gimmick, but gamers, the kind of gamers that can move 5mil units of something like Fallout in a few weeks -- they don't care about motion controls.

But I see your point, and await someone's reply of how many Kinects have been sold and are forecast to be sold. As again, see the fourth sentence of the above paragraph.

 

[ZaeZae64]

Yeah, right... Come up with something that isn't

1. QQ-ing at any slightly different game nintendo releases
2. Tomb raiding fior some franchises that are currently in hibernation
3. Bashing Miyamoto.
4. Thinking you know and are absolutely right about everything nintendo.

then perhaps you'll be taken seriously. You think your judgment is the gold standard to what nintendo does??? Get over yourself, troll.


@Graph - dude. whoever made that is seriously sniffing coke and pot at the same time. Does he not know about basic economics??? Supply and demand? Market share? What was competition back in NES days compared to GC days??? Are you seriously huffing that shit and accepting it as fact???

1º Any objections lady?
2º Franchises in hibernation like StarFox, F-Zero, StarTropics, Ice Climbers, Devil World and etc? Only Retro Studios can bringing life to old franchises that Nintendo has run into the ground. They do it awesome with Metroid and pretty well with DK.
3º Okay okay, Wii Music is just perfect and is our fault.
4º I only know N64/GCN just fail, but why if is that "correct"?

Look how troll I am: I hate Miyamoto/Sakamoto/Aonuma's philosophy, I hate Sony PlayStation for begin the cinematic era, I hate Heavy Rain, I like Super Mario Bros. 3 over Super Mario World and I LOVE chocolate (Doc Louis cameo

). I'm just a pure fanboy!!

1. Green Eyes~
2. StarFox 64 3D. But I will agree with you on the others besides Devil World. Sorry but I just dont find it fun.
3. One bad game = Bad Developer apparently
4. How're the N64 and GC fail? They had some pretty great games.

 

[Juanmatron]

Yeah, right... Come up with something that isn't

1. QQ-ing at any slightly different game nintendo releases
2. Tomb raiding fior some franchises that are currently in hibernation
3. Bashing Miyamoto.
4. Thinking you know and are absolutely right about everything nintendo.

then perhaps you'll be taken seriously. You think your judgment is the gold standard to what nintendo does??? Get over yourself, troll.


@Graph - dude. whoever made that is seriously sniffing coke and pot at the same time. Does he not know about basic economics??? Supply and demand? Market share? What was competition back in NES days compared to GC days??? Are you seriously huffing that shit and accepting it as fact???

1º Any objections lady?
2º Franchises in hibernation like StarFox, F-Zero, StarTropics, Ice Climbers, Devil World and etc? Only Retro Studios can bringing life to old franchises that Nintendo has run into the ground. They do it awesome with Metroid and pretty well with DK.
3º Okay okay, Wii Music is just perfect and is our fault.
4º I only know N64/GCN just fail, but why if is that "correct"?

Look how troll I am: I hate Miyamoto/Sakamoto/Aonuma's philosophy, I hate Sony PlayStation for begin the cinematic era, I hate Heavy Rain, I like Super Mario Bros. 3 over Super Mario World and I LOVE chocolate (Doc Louis cameo

). I'm just a pure fanboy!!

1. Green Eyes~
2. StarFox 64 3D. But I will agree with you on the others besides Devil World. Sorry but I just dont find it fun.
3. One bad game = Bad Developer apparently
4. How're the N64 and GC fail? They had some pretty great games.

1º Wut?
2º A remake. Okay... Sorry, but StarFox is dead since Argonaut doesn't exist. StarFox wasn't created by Miyamoto.
3º He calling you and me "idiot" for not buy it. I ever thinked Wii Music is an awesome idea destroyed by Miyamoto. This must be Mario Artist: Sound Maker and not this. And again, read what I said. He's disgustingly protector with their sagas to the point if someone makes it better, he change the gameplay or he send it to the obilion.
4º I love them, but their sales are patetic. How many they sell? Even that, GameGube is only a bad version of StarCube. Don't confuse, they not a fail, but if PS1 sell 100 million and PS2 sell 140 million, it's totally a "fail".

Now, let me rest, I'm angry since I read this. Jezz, how idiot is Nintendo sometimes...