Hacking HBC to use IOS58

[thesund0g]

IOS61 doesn't have USB 2.0 support, and there are numerous reasons to use an official IOS for USB 2.0. So it HAS to be IOS58.

Really? How long you think before someone ganks the EHCI and patches it into their IOS of chocie? In fact, I seem to remember a little batch file someone posted here a few months ago that would take an IOS and drop the custom DIP into it. IOS 58 will probably not be the one you have to use for very long, if it's support really is superior.

QUOTE(SifJar @ Aug 13 2010, 11:38 AM) It has been established that patched IOS DO cause issues with HBC (in their testing, those with patched IOS often malfunctioned), so the easy option is to refuse to work with stuff they don't support.

Again, really? I never noticed a single issue with HBC (before the screen-flip fuckery] while using an IOS with all kinds of patches. I know that I only have a couple Wiis, but I don't remember a lot of people bitching about HBC conflicting when running under cIOSwhore -- which they probably would have if the majority of people had malfunctions.

I still find it hard to believe that TT is doing anything with DIP. Fakesign I could understand interfering with their exploits, but they already check for it, it'd be easy to skip those unneeded steps in the 'sploit. There are more patches, but come on, how complicated is HBC? There's 10x as much going on with the installer than in the HBC itself. If the argument was that it interfered with the installer, I'd be more likely to buy it.

Simply put, no, TT and Riivolution team and gang aren't terribly anti-piracy in the active sense...but they stick their noses up high enough in response to it that it all comes off as a lot more than just distancing themselves from that part of the scene. It's very political. And turning into an arms war far too easily.

 

[thesund0g]

Is there something specific you think darkcorp fails at? Realizing that the sole purpose of darkcorp is backup disc loading from the disc channel without breaking anything else (excluding the hackmii installer). I am looking for a serious answer though, so plz lets both try to keep it clean and respect all the devs/apps that may come up during this discussion

I think where it kinda fails at is not the actual IOS patching, but the reassignment of IOSes for compatibility or whatever -- the IOS X becomes IOS A, B & C thing. I don't see the DIP patches + etc interfering with much, but think about the way IOSes work. The Wii keeps multiple IOS versions so that games can use the IOS they grew up on, without having to worry about features and bugfixes the newer IOSes might contain. If a game is expecting a call to IOS 9 to behave one way, and getting a response from what's really IOS60 instead...well, yeah, that is kinda broken and fail and stuff.

But just as with TT, DMM/DLA gets my respect for the effort, if nothing else.

 

[s3phir0th115]

Is there something specific you think darkcorp fails at? Realizing that the sole purpose of darkcorp is backup disc loading from the disc channel without breaking anything else (excluding the hackmii installer). I am looking for a serious answer though, so plz lets both try to keep it clean and respect all the devs/apps that may come up during this discussion

I think where it kinda fails at is not the actual IOS patching, but the reassignment of IOSes for compatibility or whatever -- the IOS X becomes IOS A, B & C thing. I don't see the DIP patches + etc interfering with much, but think about the way IOSes work. The Wii keeps multiple IOS versions so that games can use the IOS they grew up on, without having to worry about features and bugfixes the newer IOSes might contain. If a game is expecting a call to IOS 9 to behave one way, and getting a response from what's really IOS60 instead...well, yeah, that is kinda broken and fail and stuff.

But just as with TT, DMM/DLA gets my respect for the effort, if nothing else.

Yeah, that kinds bothers me personally.

I'd understand if it's done in a case where an IOS for some reason can't be patched, and so a similar one is used, but not IOS60 for a crap load of them as it is now.

Edit:

On the other hand, almost all of the software on my Wii is loaded via a custom IOS, to no ill effect even though the games were made for a variety of them.

So, might be a moot point, hard to say for sure.

 

[Skizzo]

But I'd like to be able to provide a legal means of downloading the full darkcorp installer (since many people still use it... I figure we may as well provide the full installer legally).

First of all, ditto on not wanting to start a flame war or anything, but I've asked this several times of you already and as far as I'm aware, you've never provided a convincing, if any, answer.

So, I'll try again here where things seem chill. How did you come to the conclusion that accessing Nintendo's servers through unauthorized means is legal? Are you just assuming, or did you seek legal counsel on the subject and that's what they told you? I'm just curious and would use the app either way if I needed it, but it seems to be a big 'selling' point of your app so I was hoping you could explain where the idea came from.

A little off topic, but due to the fact that Xbox 360 owners have to get game Title Updates from less than legitimate means if they've been banned, I'd assume no one has been able to get onto their servers by any other means, such as an app similar to yours? Wonder how it is MS can prevent it but Nintendo can't?

 

[Tom191]

But I'd like to be able to provide a legal means of downloading the full darkcorp installer (since many people still use it... I figure we may as well provide the full installer legally).

First of all, ditto on not wanting to start a flame war or anything, but I've asked this several times of you already and as far as I'm aware, you've never provided a convincing, if any, answer.

So, I'll try again here where things seem chill. How did you come to the conclusion that accessing Nintendo's servers through unauthorized means is legal? Are you just assuming, or did you seek legal counsel on the subject and that's what they told you? I'm just curious and would use the app either way if I needed it, but it seems to be a big 'selling' point of your app so I was hoping you could explain where the idea came from.

A little off topic, but due to the fact that Xbox 360 owners have to get game Title Updates from less than legitimate means if they've been banned, I'd assume no one has been able to get onto their servers by any other means, such as an app similar to yours? Wonder how it is MS can prevent it but Nintendo can't?

The fact is (as far as I'm aware), as long as YOU are downloading from nintendos servers then it is legal for you to obtain the wad files or anything else that they provide on NUS. There is no hackery involved in it. IIRC, you can actually just type in a web address in most any browser and download seperate parts of a wad file, then use your own ways of putting it together as a wad file. This is what NUSD does.

Feel free to correct me if any or all of this post is wrong, but that is what I have gathered.

 

[s3phir0th115]

But I'd like to be able to provide a legal means of downloading the full darkcorp installer (since many people still use it... I figure we may as well provide the full installer legally).

First of all, ditto on not wanting to start a flame war or anything, but I've asked this several times of you already and as far as I'm aware, you've never provided a convincing, if any, answer.

So, I'll try again here where things seem chill. How did you come to the conclusion that accessing Nintendo's servers through unauthorized means is legal? Are you just assuming, or did you seek legal counsel on the subject and that's what they told you? I'm just curious and would use the app either way if I needed it, but it seems to be a big 'selling' point of your app so I was hoping you could explain where the idea came from.

A little off topic, but due to the fact that Xbox 360 owners have to get game Title Updates from less than legitimate means if they've been banned, I'd assume no one has been able to get onto their servers by any other means, such as an app similar to yours? Wonder how it is MS can prevent it but Nintendo can't?

I don't think it's illegal because there is really no law against it that I know of, at least in the USA. Nintendo, the copyright holder, is making it publicly available on their update servers. So you can't really "pirate" it if you're downloading it from them.

Hell, I've even seen sites host demo roms for the DS. Nintendo never took/takes action against them because it's not the full product, it's the demo as they gave it out freely anyway.

Having a jtag'd 360 and TSOP flash Xbox 1, I can say that the tiltle update thing is a grey area because they're freely available through live, just like updates for most PC games, and demos, etc. And I think to them that if it's between letting such sites exist to get content, or having more modded users on live, they'd pick to just turn a blind eye to distributing sites.

Though the problem in the case with 360 games is that demos for the arcade are actually the same content full games, just with a modified value. There are homebrew tools made for it that, that I'm not even kidding you, can scan the hard drive for any xbox live arcade demos you have, and convert all demos you have to the full versions. So the same sites distrubuting demos may be the bigger problem.

As for why the same thing can't be done with the xbox, I think it's for the same reason that reverse engineering xbox live is so difficult, the encryption and all they use while connected.

 

[Skizzo]

But I'd like to be able to provide a legal means of downloading the full darkcorp installer (since many people still use it... I figure we may as well provide the full installer legally).

First of all, ditto on not wanting to start a flame war or anything, but I've asked this several times of you already and as far as I'm aware, you've never provided a convincing, if any, answer.

So, I'll try again here where things seem chill. How did you come to the conclusion that accessing Nintendo's servers through unauthorized means is legal? Are you just assuming, or did you seek legal counsel on the subject and that's what they told you? I'm just curious and would use the app either way if I needed it, but it seems to be a big 'selling' point of your app so I was hoping you could explain where the idea came from.

A little off topic, but due to the fact that Xbox 360 owners have to get game Title Updates from less than legitimate means if they've been banned, I'd assume no one has been able to get onto their servers by any other means, such as an app similar to yours? Wonder how it is MS can prevent it but Nintendo can't?

The fact is (as far as I'm aware), as long as YOU are downloading from nintendos servers then it is legal for you to obtain the wad files or anything else that they provide on NUS. There is no hackery involved in it. IIRC, you can actually just type in a web address in most any browser and download seperate parts of a wad file, then use your own ways of putting it together as a wad file. This is what NUSD does.

Feel free to correct me if any or all of this post is wrong, but that is what I have gathered.

While there may not be any 'hackery' involved and you can indeed type a url directly into any web browser to get a file, you must first know the correct url to type, and as far as I'm aware, Nintendo doesn't just give these out to people. I've never updated my Wii using the Wii itself, so I don't know what gets displayed on screen at the time, but I have read of people sniffing their traffic in order to acquire the proper web servers and addresses. Not being a lawyer I don't know what that really means, but I have read some legal code and it seems to imply that unless you were unambiguously given access to whatever code or downloads you're using, then it's not legal to access them, regardless of not having to actually 'hack' into the system (although the sniffing out bit could possibly be construed as hacking?) That's why I was just curious where Xflak got the notion from. Maybe he has consulted with legal professionals. I don't know.

Also, just to mention, unless I'm mistaken you can download WiiWare/VC titles too, and while they may not be able to be made to work on the Wii, you'd still have to think that this was somehow illegal. This comment is only in relation to your theory and I'm aware that Xflak's app doesn't grab any WW/VC, at least I don't think it does.

Or how about the GH/RB DLC tools which grab all the DLC songs from the servers. I suppose those are legal too?

Generally the wording of the laws I've looked at contains "accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access,". You have to think that Nintendo would easily be able to argue in a court of law that the only 'authorized access' they allow is that which is conducted by their hardware, the Wii, and anything beyond that is 'without authorization', or certainly 'exceeding authorized access'. I think of it as if I found someone had left their back door open, that doesn't give me permission to enter their house and take whatever I want.

EDIT: I'm reminded of the time my wife and I pulled up to an ATM where the previous person hadn't exited out, and we were being asked if we wanted to conduct another transaction (without the need to enter any PIN or whatnot). I was tempted, but certainly that too would have been illegal (not to mention we forgot our masks that day and would certainly have been caught

) so we did the right thing and said no.

 

[s3phir0th115]

While there may not be any 'hackery' involved and you can indeed type a url directly into any web browser to get a file, you must first know the correct url to type, and as far as I'm aware, Nintendo doesn't just give these out to people. I've never updated my Wii using the Wii itself, so I don't know what gets displayed on screen at the time, but I have read of people sniffing their traffic in order to acquire the proper web servers and addresses. Not being a lawyer I don't know what that really means, but I have read some legal code and it seems to imply that unless you were unambiguously given access to whatever code or downloads you're using, then it's not legal to access them, regardless of not having to actually 'hack' into the system (although the sniffing out bit could possibly be construed as hacking?) That why I was just curious where Xflak got the notion from. Maybe he has consulted with legal professionals. I don't know.

Also, just to mention, unless I'm mistaken you can download WiiWare/VC titles too, and while they may not be able to be made to work on the Wii, you'd still have to think that this was somehow illegal. This comment is only in relation to your theory and I'm aware that Xflak's app doesn't grab any WW/VC, at least I don't think it does.

I don't think something like that would stand up in court if Nintendo was somehow compelled to try to sue someone for it. I mean the reason they don't give out the links is because the average user doesn't need them. They either update by disc or by the internet with their menus. I can't think of why they'd have to officially point it out.

The only thing that might have merit is the whole downloading WiiWare/VC thing, which as you've said NUSAD doesn't do. But for all the content, the stuff is encrypted. Decrypting it may fall into a grey area though. Not entirley sure on that one.

 

[XFlak]

k, just got home, a little drunk 3:40AM


every1 who has purchased a WII has a RIGHT to the ninty update files (who the fuck else is it there for?)

I am not redistributing and copyright code, and that is key.

If ninty were to EVER contact me, I will remove NUSAD from the internet and pray they don'tpursue it furhter. Hell, I'd even put out an autoupdate for NUSAD to delete itself if it meant avoiding becoming the next kongznuts (nothing malicious though I promise!)

besides, i am doing nothing different than dop-mii, mmm, and other apps that connect online to nusd servers, if wasninkoko isn't in jail then I figure I got nothing 2 worry about



also, fyi, i don't know if having nusad create a darkcorp full installer is a great idea, i dont want 2 ghet caught in the middle of any beef.... we'll see

PS. sooooooooo drunk, woohooo, celebrate NUSAD v420 being released!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smf]

I don't think it's illegal because there is really no law against it that I know of, at least in the USA. Nintendo, the copyright holder, is making it publicly available on their update servers. So you can't really "pirate" it if you're downloading it from them.

So by leaving your house unlocked you are giving permission to everyone to take everything?

There is nothing in copyright law that says that you have to prevent people from copying your stuff to be legally covered.

 

[PsyBlade]

So by leaving your house unlocked you are giving permission to everyone to take everything?

There is nothing in copyright law that says that you have to prevent people from copying your stuff to be legally covered.

The common reason to put something on the internet is for other ppl to access it free of charge.
Thats not true for your home.

 

[svpe]

So by leaving your house unlocked you are giving permission to everyone to take everything?

There is nothing in copyright law that says that you have to prevent people from copying your stuff to be legally covered.

The common reason to put something on the internet is for other ppl to access it free of charge.
Thats not true for your home.

You fail to understand copyright laws. You can upload something to the internet and still say that only certain people are allowed to download it (even though that would be kinda stupid).
You're not allowed to do whatever you want with something just because it's free (as in does not cost anything).

 

[SifJar]

IOS61 doesn't have USB 2.0 support, and there are numerous reasons to use an official IOS for USB 2.0. So it HAS to be IOS58.

Really? How long you think before someone ganks the EHCI and patches it into their IOS of chocie? In fact, I seem to remember a little batch file someone posted here a few months ago that would take an IOS and drop the custom DIP into it. IOS 58 will probably not be the one you have to use for very long, if it's support really is superior.

I said there are numerous reasons to use an official IOS. None of the reasons I was thinking of were superior support, that's just a nice bonus.

Some of the reasons were:

• Don't need an exploit to install an official IOS
• Won't be removed by updates as it is needed for official games
• Proper signature

 

[tueidj]

I can't see anyone ripping it out and putting it in another IOS; it's 6 modules (EHCI, OHCI0, USB_USB, USB_HID, USB_VEN, USB_HUB) and you lose all backwards compatibility with the older USB interface.

 

[minkiz88]

Hmm.. It seems that the homebrew channel just sent me an update for 1.0.8 this morning. Didn't they JUST come out with 1.0.7? I'm kinda leery.. Any thoughts?

Mike

 

[pepxl]

Hmm.. It seems that the homebrew channel just sent me an update for 1.0.8 this morning. Didn't they JUST come out with 1.0.7? I'm kinda leery.. Any thoughts?

Mike

yeah the new 1.0.8 has USB2.0 support via IOS58

 

[minkiz88]

Oh, ok. I just heard people saying it was prototypic, and such, so I was just surprised to see it come out so fast. Thanks so much!

Mike

 

[litium]

So, if i install IOS58, will anything BAD happen? I have HermesV5 and that stuff

 

[Slowking]

Yeah your Wii will blow up. Those damn twiizers accessed the Wiis internal C4...

 

[litium]

Yeah your Wii will blow up. Those damn twiizers accessed the Wiis internal C4...

I'm taking that as a joke from a bored kid, any other willing user to confirm if installing 58 anything will hapen?