1. Boesy

    OP Boesy GBAtemp Fan
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    I used to collect PAL games of NES, SNES, N64, NGC, Wii, Xbox, PS1, PS2 but since I needed space I just sold them on eBay a few years ago and I'm okay with it considering the NTSC run at better performance than PAL copies do.

    However, despite that PAL are a downgrade from NTSC their value remains the same as before, which is not surprising (it never lost its value). I reckon folks who're buying are collectors than to actually play it.

    Examples:

    #1
    [​IMG]

    #2
    [​IMG]

    Nowadays, I admit I pirate games, but I always pick NTSC-U/J copies to play the games at the correct performance.

    A comparison of Tekken 2's NTSC vs PAL running speed:



    I always thought it was strange how everything was so slow, and turns out it was because I was playing an inferior copy. ^^"
     
  2. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    I would reckon the same. Most gamers chase either the newest AAA-trends. Others are drowning in indie games. That makes retro gamers a bit of a niche group. Add to that the fact that every game that has been even slightly popular has seen at least one remaster or remake at some point, and of course that pirated ROMS aren't exactly hard to find online. So whom else would buy these aside collectors? :unsure:

    (I'd also argue that PAL isn't always slower/inferior than NTSC, but I honestly don't care enough about the technical details to look up to what degree it matters. I mean...I can't tell significant difference in this video, but if you can then all the power to you I guess)
     
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  3. alexander1970

    alexander1970 Austrian Guy - allowed make grammatical Errors
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    Hello.:)



    This here is an great Example of Speed from PAL vs. NTSC.
    Please see for yourself and play it with you Emulator of your Choice and try PAL and NTSC Version/Settings.
    You will "hear" the Difference.:D

    For the original Post: I like the PAL Version(s) more,because they are slower and easier to beat in some Places....:D
    This "slower" Factor is not really noticeable today of Monitors/4K Devices and so on,but you notice it for sure on old CRT TV Sets.

    Thank you.:)
     
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  4. emigre

    emigre Recovering weeaboo
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    In fairness, the NTSC vs PAL was mainly due to developers not optimising their game for PAL. IIRC PAL Crash Bandicoot plays fine when compared to NTSC. I think the main issue was a lot of the big players didn't care much for the European market. The switch to HD has been a godsend in this regard.

    I bought a copy of Persona 3 FES nearly ten years ago for about £10. It goes for about £90 now.
     
  5. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
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    16 bit and older was common to see game wide slowdown and black borders thanks to devs not caring about ports. Sometimes there were good ports, and sometimes PAL was the lead development region for games and then NTSC regions got bad ports.

    Post 16 bit there were perks and downsides (ignoring things coming out later or not at all, sometimes bugfixes, less censorship and extra content, other times lacking early higher resolutions, widescreen and some content when licensing was a thing) but generally if it made it there then it was all pretty playable with animations taking the appropriate amount of milliseconds (if not outright having 60Hz modes). Plus SCART was a thing.

    Now with most things being HDMI and TVs supporting things (granted most PAL TVs made in the 90s would support 60Hz but few noted that).
     
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  6. Skelletonike

    Skelletonike ♂ ♥ Gallant Pervert ♥ ♀
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    I never cared much. Even when I buy old games for my collection I always stick to the European copy of available. In most cases the difference is minimal.
     
  7. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
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    The very first time I played Super Metroid was on 3DS using an emulator. At first, when I played it, I thought the emulator was just being shitty, because the game felt a lot slower than what I seen on Youtube, also the FPS was in the 50's. Felt sluggish for some reason. Than about an hour in, I noticed I had the PAL version. I deleted it, downloaded the NTSC version, and it felt better.
     
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  8. eyeliner

    eyeliner Has an itch needing to be scratched.
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    Most times, PAL games are more expensive because of the simple fact that they had lesser units on the market.
    You'd have to be extremely lucky to get some of the best RPGs on each system, shoot'em ups and other gems.

    Looking at yoou Tales of Symphonia and Baten Kaitos on GameCube that I had to import.
    Looking at you Ikaruga that I never found on any store.

    But i got both Suikoden games for the PSX that I still own, despite my PSX having been sold ages ago. That must count for something, right? Got to sell them, I guess.

    Weird times that the digital marketplace came to mitigate. Good riddance to those times, indeed.
     
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  9. Retroboy

    Retroboy GBAtemp Addict
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    the only difference between the two mainly was the output of tvs, both games ran and performed the same way, just some stupid reason us poor fucks in the PAL regions had shitty tvs that ran at 50hz.

    but theres little difference really unless your like a super n00b who wants to look at the finer end of a fart.

    i think value of games, such as retro, PAL hold more value because NTSC regions usually hit the market before PAL, and were more prone to having counterfeit versions.

    Take nintendo as an example, most of the clone carts for all their consoles are labelled up as NTSC.
     
  10. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru
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    honestly, i played all my games in pal when i was young and i didn't really feel like they played bad or anything.
    and i know that the better publishers did convert their games in a way that even at 50hz, the game played at the same speed as the ntsc version.

    i sometimes wonder if emulators ntsc/pal settings really represent what I experienced when i played these games as a kid. unfortunately, i dont have the originals around to compare anymore.

    no idea why some pal games are more expensive. potentially because less units sold. investing time and money into multi language translations probably made some games a bit more expensive and they didn't want to risk sitting on leftovers...
     
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  11. Reynardine

    Reynardine The Villagefox
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    It's funny. I grew up with PAL SNES and (even worse) N64 and games like Super Mario 64 always had this floaty feeling to them. I thought that this is how it should be, I didn't know any better.

    By now I've gotten used to playing NTSC versions at the original speed on emulators and I find it hard to play on my real N64 anymore. For Gamecube the problem was gone for many games because they offer a PAL60 mode.

    Also when I bought the PAL Zelda Twilight Princess for Gamecube a few years ago it was really expensive. For some reason that game never lost its value.
     
    Last edited by Reynardine, Feb 12, 2020
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  12. Uiaad

    Uiaad GBAtemp's resident guinea pig
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    There are a lot of pluses and minuses to both NTSC and PAL. A blanket statement that PAL is inferior simply isn't true and the you are only looking at the one aspect much bigger picture.

    It is much less to do with the formats themselves and more about the developers and this really did cut both ways, altho at differing times and systems. If you take a look back at the Micro-Computer era of the 80's early 90's british devs really didn't give a flying fuck about America and NTSC, because the market was here and it was booming and europe and other PAL territories where were it was at and specially with systems like the Amiga, where timing was so very very critical to pretty much everything this is why you didn't get the Micro-computer boom in the States that you got in Europe and Australia.

    I can't sit here and say that Sega and Nintendo weren't popular in the UK and europe ( altho the NES launch was a complete clusterfuck with there being 2 versions both incompatible with each other, first by Mattel and then later by Nintendo themselves) but it wasn't really until Commodore and Atari flopped out of the Micro markets that we majorly embraced the console for staple gaming ( SNES/MegaDrive(Genesis) era ) but even then these were pre-internet and importing games from the Ole USA was still very expensive

    The time we majorly started seeing issues was the PS1 era this is generally down to publishers and devs not quite knowing what this blossoming market really wanted and from their point of view it was more cost effective to just bang out quick and dirty hacks of NTSC games.

    As far as value goes with pal games i think it comes down to publishers not wanting to left holding vast quantities of a game that flopped. I have to say here I'm not a collector or flipper but there are a couple of sealed copies of Suikoden II locked away for a rainy day, as my well used copy. I think the numbers i heard bounded around for that game back in the day was between 10,000 and 20,000 copies for the whole of europe ( could have just been the UK ) I know that when It came to Suikoden 3 for PS2 they had no faith in it at all in Europe and eventually canceled it despite it being in a finished state.
     
    Last edited by Uiaad, Feb 12, 2020
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  13. duwen

    duwen Old Man Yoshi
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    I'm a gamer AND a collector. I buy physically over digitally whenever possible. I'm rarely interested in AAA releases, but love indie games. I 'pirate' whatever titles I can for most of the systems I own, but will still buy them if I like them/can afford to.
    For example; this weekend I went to a retro game market and picked up loose Japanese Gameboy carts for Parodius DA, Contra, and Serpent, a CiB copy of the European Road Rash 2 for Megadrive, and the most expensive item was a mint copy of the Japanese disc of Mars Matrix for Dreamcast. A couple of days later I received my 'day one' edition of the Yakuza Remastered collection for PS4. I've already spent many hours playing the retro games since buying them, while the PS4 title will probably remain sealed on my shelf for several weeks before I get around to even installing it.
    Although I collect, I only collect games I'm going to play. And for the most part, when it comes to retro, I've always leant towards Japanese NTSC releases (even back when those systems were current rather than retro) despite living in a PAL territory.
     
  14. squee666

    squee666 Advanced Tech Pleb
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    Umm hate to burst your bubble but super mario64 only runs at 30fps

    And to burst it even more it runs better on pal than on stac
    This is because it wasnt compiled with -02 optimizations on ntsc fornsome weird reason
     
  15. Reynardine

    Reynardine The Villagefox
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    But nobody said anything about mario 64 running at more than 30fps. I was just mentioning speed differences, comparing my PAL N64 console to emulated NTSC games.

    Both Mario 64 and the Zeldas run noticeably smoother in their NTSC versions, at least on emulator. Granted I have never played NTSC games on real hardware. I assumed that the speed difference would be the same.

    Edit:
    What is stac? First time I heard this term.
     
    Last edited by Reynardine, Feb 12, 2020
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  16. squee666

    squee666 Advanced Tech Pleb
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    Auto correct ntsc
    And if you run them on emulator there will be noticeable performance increases

    Like normally games would only run at 30fps and dip to 20

    Emulation you are just removing any drops on frames and responsiveness unless you have trash hardware
     
    Last edited by squee666, Feb 12, 2020
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  17. Jokey_Carrot

    Jokey_Carrot ̶g̶b̶a̶t̶e̶m̶p̶ Heroin Addict
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    This is all true except for micro computers. Here in europe micro computers such as the ZX series Commodore 64 and amstrads were much more polular than game consoles as a result many games where developed to fit a 50hz system and some games run to fast on a 60hz machine or where never released in the US.
     
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  18. Reynardine

    Reynardine The Villagefox
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    Does that mean that on real hardware there are no speed differences between pal and ntsc region N64 consoles?

    I know about the recent Mario 64 decomp that resulted in a patch that fixes the slowdown around Bowser's sub etc. Was the pal version not affected by that oversight?

    I had no idea, that's interesting.
     
    Last edited by Reynardine, Feb 12, 2020
  19. squee666

    squee666 Advanced Tech Pleb
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    There are basically no games that hit 60fps on n64
    So the 50hz vs 60hz makes no difference

    And the s64 decomposed discovered that the ntsc version wasnt compiled with 02 optimizations which resulted in frame dips in certain areas.

    The pal version doesnt suffer from this
     
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  20. Issac

    Issac I
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    However, The PAL version of SM64 runs at 25FPS compared to the 30FPS that the NTSC version runs at. So there's still a difference. Not a 10 fps difference, but a 5 fps one.
     
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