EO2 Translation WIP - Advice Needed

Discussion in 'NDS - ROM Hacking and Translations' started by MaelstromVale, Mar 8, 2008.

Mar 8, 2008
  1. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    I'm having some problems translating Etrian Odyssey 2. Since I came into this (hobby) project a complete noob, I'd like to see if there's anyone else who's seen the same thing happen before and would be willing to help me.

    First off here are some images to show a little of what I've already done, so you don't get the idea I'm a *completely* worthless noob.

    [​IMG]
    Right now there are some translation work-arounds (severe shortening) because of the 8 character limit. This is a project for understanding and ease of use rather than a complete English overhaul, so it's fine for me (for now).

    [​IMG]
    You may notice that the "LV:" part of Allslash has been garbled. This is actually a minor problem arising from the real problem I'll explain soon. This will be mentioned later, so be patient.

    [​IMG]
    Here's a pretty nice view of how well my table file is working. I actually started this process by making an EO2-tailored table file from scratch. I'm only about 360 characters into defining characters, which is why you'll notice parts written in kanji are missing. I stopped pretty early into the kanji section because they were jumping around so much and it was taking so long. I stopped at around 160-170 (HEX) into the table file. One of the entries in this hex shows us 3D8, meaning I'm probably lacking at least 278 kanji definitions. Probably a lot more. I may continue plugging in values, but for now this is more than enough to give a nice visual helper.


    [​IMG]

    Here's a good view of my problem. As you can see, each skill is 8 characters long. Any skill that falls short of 8 characters has the end flushed with 0000 to make 8 characters. Any skill that = exactly 8 characters has a row of 0000s placed on the next line, splitting it from the next skill. Other than this, there are no breaks in the skills all the way from the first class to the last. There's also no compression, and even heavily repeated skills (stat ups) are listed every single time. In case anyone asks, the line I highlighted has the break after it because it was 8 japanese characters before the translation.

    My problem goes something like this. An 8 character limit is really too short for English. To add onto that last statement though, the game doesn't even give me 8 characters to work with. I can only use 8 characters if the next line is filled with 0000 to break the skills apart. Without it I get that corruption on "LV:" you saw, and a few other choice graphical problems. As you scroll through the skill screen, once you hit Rayslash every skill name you see disappears (they still show up on the lower info section though, making it cosmetic) until you scroll Rayslash off the screen, at which point everything pops back like nothing happened. This basically means I'm limited to 7 characters unless I want cosmetic problems. And before it's mentioned, I've tried tailoring the file to match the scheme. The problem there is that the game has the skills pinpointed to that line and that line only. If I remove unnecessary lines or add them in, the skills shift names to reflect the line they think they should be. This also means that simply working in a smaller font for the game to allow more characters is impossible, at least until I can safely reroute the skill name lines to where I want them to be.

    So, anyone see anything like this before? I have a feeling it's pointer related, but haven't bothered to really dredge around looking for more info in case someone else already has experience with something similar. The items I'm working with here are pretty easy to spot if you unpack the rom. I'm not going to post them here because that would probably be illegal.

    On a side note, the script text is fairly easy to edit. Items seem to be a real mess, skills are fairly easy but come with a 7 character limit, but the game text seems to be fairly flexible. Not that I'm going to edit it any time soon (or ever), but it probably wouldn't be that much of a job.
     


  2. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nice to see more rom hackers.

    Wow a fixed length text section, you do not see those too often (quite in fact I was looking for a good example so thanks). Unfortunately they are often a pain to work around (see all the official devs that have full source still go the fire1, fire2, fire 3 versus fire, fira and firaga and grnts versus grants route).

    My suggestion is read up on dual tile/multiple tile encoding: roman character sets are no more than 90 characters by the time all is said and done and you have already shown you have far more than that to play with. Encode one of the fonts with a part of one character and part of another : I suggest the l's i's j's and whatnot for starters, especially as you have 2 lower case l's there.

    You will even gain a kind of pseudo variable width font too if you do it right. I do not have the rom to hand so I can not give advice on the font/where it is but if it is as nice as it seems it should not be hard to dig up. You may even luck out and find something like crystaltile2 is able to parse it.
     
  3. sk3tch

    Member sk3tch GBAtemp Fan

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    Wow, I absolutely support your endeavor 100%, MaelstromVale. I love EO.

    Let me know if there is anything I can to do help...web hosting...whatever.
     
  4. deufeufeu

    Member deufeufeu GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Ok here is your information : starting from 0x28 there's a list of unsigned integers (on 4bytes) which are pointer to the skills names, to get the skill address you add 0x30.
    This way you can move all the text, but it does not mean you can put skills as long as you want, the 8 char limit is probably hardly encoded in the game binary.
     
  5. matthewn4444

    Member matthewn4444 GBAtemp Regular

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    Hey, I started translating the names of the attacks too. Ya you need a 0000 to break off the attacks though I couldn't do pet. Anyways I was starting the descriptions and it's kind of hard. If you want I can give you my PlayerSkillName.mbb file if you want to speed things up.
     
  6. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    I'm through about 8 of the classes already, so I may as well finish and fix it up with dff's info. What I'm interested in now is less 'the work done' and more 'how things work' so they're easily editable when necessary. If you figure out anything about the skill info before I get to it that would be more help. Probably what would be *most* helpful would be someone finishing the kanji section of my table file so *all* the game's text would be clearly visible (no bothersome hex searches or guesswork). I'm more than willing to up the file if anyone wants to spend time slogging through text values.
     
  7. matthewn4444

    Member matthewn4444 GBAtemp Regular

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    If your planning to releases patches, great!! A few things I can help you a little.

    Under skills:
    -CampSkillCustomNextMes.mbb = the stuff under the skill info (tells you the skill tp next skill lvl)
    -BtlSkillInfo.mbb = the skill info in battle (NOT in custom) also each line is about 15-18 characters long
    and you will need to use "0180" after 15-18 characters (not to make the words off
    the screen)
    -CampSkillInfo.mbb= the skill info under each skill name (again about 15-18 characters long add a 0180
    to make it move to the next line)

    Ya and that's pretty much I have started too. Good luck with the rest and I hope this helps you.
     
  8. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    look up dual tile encoding, I know strictly it tends to refer to multiple characters called by one value: add more than one character (even if it is only 1 and a half) to a tile and you have a far greater limit (probably around 14 if you do it right, more if you kludge it and use a skinny font or something.

    As for kanji it is not set in stone but I have frequently seen games have table order and font order be one and the same (or a simple mathematical method of "obscuring" it): might be worth extracting the font.
     
  9. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    I haven't been able to view the font with anything I have on hand. I've been having a hard time finding a non-broken link to crystaltile2 though. If you could point me in the right direction or upload a copy somewhere I'd greatly appreciate it. Personally, I've decided not to worry about the 8 character limit. As I was fitting the skills to 8 characters I found I really liked the "retro" feel it lends. At the end of the day it suits an intentionally "old school" game like EO. Since the EO1 localization also adhered to 8 characters, I think EO2 will follow suit, meaning the translation really won't lose much from mine to an official localization.
     
  10. dsbomb

    Member dsbomb GBAtemp Fan

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    Good job, keep at it.
     
  11. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    Here is my 7zip of the app:
    http://www.4shared.com/file/40301118/fd9a4...taltile2ft.html

    Translation is not so good (I still have a lot to do, some stuff needs tidying up and I think it is an older version) but it works and has most of it down (certainly enough for an able hacker to use). Click the final pulldown menu to select it and then reload the app.

    The main thing you want to play with is the filesystem which is the FSI button at the top of the app.
     
  12. deufeufeu

    Member deufeufeu GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    the game uses Huffman compression for font. http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#biosde...essionfunctions
     
  13. 2dere

    Member 2dere GBAtemp Regular

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    Wow Maelstrom wicked work. Its nice to see those with knowledge helping and giving support.
    It might make me get off my arse and start something for that Simple series Mecha game, Gunground.
     
  14. Witte Wieven

    Newcomer Witte Wieven Member

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    This is great, I'm really looking forward to this!
     
  15. monaug5

    Member monaug5 GBAtemp Fan

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    absoultely fantastic where do i go to so that i can donate to you?
     
  16. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    This is a hobby and learning project, I'd feel wrong taking donations.


    That said, here are some updates. I'm 97% done with Skill Names. All I lack are a handful of skills that need shortening (especially Ronin), and then shifting the pointers to reflect the new position. I can't deal with the pointers until I have the skill names set, since adding any 8 character name means I'd have to shift them all over again. I'll list skills and ask for input (from EO fans hopefully) at the bottom of this post, so feel free to give suggestions. I may just tailor the file so *all* skills are spaced and repointed as if they were 8 characters to allow easier editing in the future, but we'll see.

    As for where to go next, I'm taking a short break before I code up some sort of tool to help me input things faster. Unless
    someone knows of a hex editor that can read a custom table file AND has quick ascii editing that can match that table file, then I'll have to whip up something myself because this character-by-character hex input is killing me. After that, I have to finish up as much of the table file as possible so I can see what to edit. Even though missing kanji was fine for editing the skill names since they're aligned nicely, for much of the rest of the game's text I'll need to see most kanji to make finding and editing easy. I'm to the point where editing the entirety of the game's text is relatively straightforward, the problem is actually getting it done in a timely fashion.

    So to reiterate:
    1) Temporary Break
    2) Finish the table file (will probably be done throughout the break)
    3) Whip up something simple to convert in-game files to and from text
    4) The real work begins
     
  17. matthewn4444

    Member matthewn4444 GBAtemp Regular

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    Hey, me again. There's a program that I'm using from the topic I started for help.

    http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=77164

    If you're interested. Use WINHEX32 and install the Njstar. It helps a lot. I don't know if it can read custom tables (since I made 1 from there) but press CTRL-D in it and it would change the text into Japanese (so you can see it on the side). Also press TAB and you can type on the keyboard to make the text (if you were coding it through the hex numbers).

    By the way, if you want I can help you. I finished the names of the attacks and did 4 jobs worths of skill descriptions (though it might be off since I can't really read Japanese).

    Good Luck.
     
  18. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    My main problem with windhex is that it has really uncomfortable editing functionality. I've really just been using it on the side as a visual reference so I can quickly find the offset for a better editor. I suppose I misspoke earlier in that input isn't the problem, it's adjusting the file after the input. English tends to take up more characters than Japanese, and that often means I go beyond the file's natural formatting. So I have to redo spacing and adjust the pointers to reflect new text position on every single entry below the one I just edited. It's easier for me to just make an app that can convert back and forth while fixing those things automatically. Knowing how the file is set up, I don't even really have to use the ones the game has since I can generate my own following the same scheme.

    As for helping me, if you're doing fine and intend to push out a patch eventually then keep at it. You seem to be working faster than me anyway. This is a personal project for experience and learning's sake. Even though I do eventually intend to present a patch, if Atlus USA came out tomorrow (or a week from now) and announced a localization I'd probably drop it for something more productive. I also have a job starting a week from now, so I could very well abandon (or just slow down work on) the project then if I find my time has disappeared. Basically, for a potential patch's sake, it's safer for us to both work on it separately.
     
  19. matthewn4444

    Member matthewn4444 GBAtemp Regular

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    Ok sure no problem. Keep up the great work and good luck.
     
  20. MaelstromVale
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    Newcomer MaelstromVale Member

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    Sorry about the slowdown. I should have a decent patch available in a week or two. I have a pretty shitty job right now that's sucking up most of my time during weekdays.

    Since Atlus finally announced an EO2 localization for June 17th.The patch will only cover Skill Names, Skill Descriptions, Menus, and some other odds and ends like save/load messages and the intro, which I'm already about 80% through. I'm really wondering whether or not to release a patch at all since June is fairly close, and I (at least) see little reason in playing a romhack when the true localization is right around the corner.

    Oh well, here's hoping they fix Ronin's skill bugs.
     

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