Hacking EHCI IOS module

[marcan]

Effectively banning web clients is equal to the banning people in my case.. And you are telling me that first I should resolve the nation wide ban then come with the regular irc client?
You've got it backwards. Again. Turkey got banned from EFNet (rightfully or not). Web clients are, in that case, ban evasion. So sorry if some idiot decided to ban an entire country due to spam, but it's not my job to ensure that you can continue accessing by working around the ban. Take it up with the guy who banned you in the first place. It's not my fault if you rely on a secondary IRC access method as your only one, because there's a ban on your primary access method. If you think fixing the ban is so hard, then you could try other means. Get an IRC bouncer in another country for example.

And I don't think I could remove the overall ban and I won't be bothered to use the proxies and stuff.. and still with your thinking it's just another way around the ban so I'll again be banned anyway?
If you spam, then chances are you'll get banned again. If you don't spam, then no one will care because you weren't the problem in the first place. No one is going to go after you if you evade a ban that wasn't meant for you in the first place. However, it's not my job to keep that evasion system working if I have a good unrelated reason to ban it. You're supposed to have normal IRC access without web clients. If you don't, then you need to fix that.

I'm amazed some people in the "wii dev scene" still hold onto a handful of morals, even though we're ALL running unauthorized code on our consoles, and from what information was released, basically got laughed at by Nintendo when they were contacted about their disc security flaw (after being dicked around for a week).
Just because Nintendo ignored us doesn't mean we're suddenly going to become pro-piracy. I feel sorry for you if your morals are so weak that they're invalid once someone ignores you.

QUOTE(Mark McDonut @ Oct 10 2008, 01:02 AM) Especially with the new info that just came to light proving that Nintendo was blocking the twilight hack in IOS updates _2 weeks_ before unauthorized WAD's could even be installed on a Wii, just goes to show that they aren't writing updates just because of piracy, but on account of ANY code that's not their own running on a system.

So? I don't expect them to be friendly towards buffer overflow exploits in their systems. The reason they have a signing system in the first place is to block unlicensed code. They're not forcing us to apply their updates. We can still hack their systems as much as we want. Besides, it's funny when their workarounds get worked around in a few hours anyway. None of this gives you the right to break their copyright, and none of it means we're going to like isoloaders any more. The backup argument is moot because practically speaking most people use loaders for piracy. If you have a need for backups, then figure it out yourself - we've decided that we don't want to be involved with that, period.

QUOTE(Mark McDonut @ Oct 10 2008, 01:02 AM)

I understand and respect the work team twiizers has done so far, however from reading blogs over the past year the coders don't seem like hardcore gamers, much less, I have trouble believing they've ever gotten the finger from gamestop or a retail store because an optical game disc they purchased stopped working and they were left with a 49.99 coaster.

My TP disc got scratched after one too many careless uses for the TPHack (back in the day). Big deal. I made a copy and loaded it using my home-made chip. I didn't demand support from the rest of the world. Making the backup is legal, I did it myself, period. Why do you demand support for something? We're all doing this for free, you know. We get to choose what we don't want to be involved with. We've decided that getting involved with backups is not worth it because it inevitably leads to piracy. Can you just drop it?

Oh, and thanks for the conspiracy theory about modchips again. Should I show you my bank statements now?

Half of you guys still don't get the fucking point. I couldn't care less about piracy. I couldn't care less about modchips. I couldn't care less about backups. Modchip your wiis all you like. Go pirate the entire library of available games. What I do care about is associating piracy with homebrew. Which always happens when there's a homebrew copy loader. I do not want to enable piracy. I do not want to be associated with piracy. Everything was fine and dandy when pirates installed modchips, homebrew users installed homebrew, and users of both installed both. They were two entirely different worlds. Then waninkoko came and had to fuck everything up.

So sorry if I'm (still) being harsh, but you guys are getting on my nerves. A lot.

 

[RahanAkero]

I try not to post here too often, but one thing I've consistently noticed is that, despite the lack of want to be "associated with piracy"... some of the most popular homebrew applications are, by most definitions... piracy-oriented.

Take emulation, for example. Whether you're injecting WADs that aren't available on the virtual console, or downloading any one of the HBC app packages that contain SNES9X, FCEU, and Gens plus, there's always the possibility of downloading something you don't actually own. "Hey, I rented this a long time ago and never found it again," or "I always wanted to try this game, but it's so rare and expensive now," or "Hey, they finished the MOTHER3 translation? Holy shit, I'd better download VBA and get a-patchin'!". Piracy, and all of it made possible by the Twilight Hack. In a less gaming-oriented example, a Media Player application can be used to watch downloaded videos -- and there's no signing to prove that you're watching home movies or freshly-subbed unlicensed anime.

As long as people can code these applications and have a method of running them, then Homebrew essentially allows -- proudly, with a gigantic dopey grin -- piracy. Enables it just as well as it enables the hobbyist to code a new, fresh platformer or art program. There's no sidestepping or avoiding it, that's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Mark McDonut]

First of all I wasn't "demanding" _anything_ and granted I don't have a lot to go on assumption-wise, I also don't have a lot in the contrary unless it's explained first hand. Which you have just done, and I appreciate you taking the time to do it. And my morals aren't weak, I just know how much it sucks to be fucked out of $150 worth of games because dickhead publishers don't have fail-safe operations in place when their delicate mediums get fucked up (or their operating systems for that matter, which I know you recognize otherwise you wouldn't be working on bootmii).

It also surprised me that for a discovery like that you'd broadcast it to the entire internet on your blog if you're so against piracy. My opinion is that half the reason the backup loaders were being worked on was because people took what information you offered and went digging deeper for it. If I didn't want to be associated with anything piracy oriented I certainly wouldn't be telling people about it or even hinting at it. It was put on your blog, caused a stir-up and Nintendo still didn't care. And waninkoko started his work.

I was just taking a stab in the dark, just like you did as far as guessing what someone's coding and hardware capabilities are. I don't know what was said in the wiidev channel, as I wasn't there and don't go there, as I know I don't belong there as I don't have anything to contribute so I don't waste anyone's time. What I do know is what was posted in this thread and it's that Trolly was looking to code a usb 2.0 driver and that he doesn't care if someone uses the driver to code an HDD loader, that he WASN'T coding it himself. You can't blame people for forming their own opinions, and honestly, I took a guess at the modchip thing based on how ridiculously against piracy-enabling softmodding your team was seeming to be, I couldn't really give a shit either way, people are going to do what they're going to do for whatever reasons they choose, I don't even bother stating my opinions on ethics morals or legality ESPECIALLY here of all places, as I know it would fall on deaf ears.

I respect and appreciate the work you and bushing have both done, I really do, I have no desire to see your bank statements (I've never heard any rumors of "the modchip conspiracy" in the past and it was just my own personal speculation based on what's in the paragraph above, although I know it must get old, a simple "I can't help you with that, sorry" would suffice just as much as booting someone from a channel) which is why I even suggested development of something that would let you load your own legitimate copies of games onto and run from a hard drive, as I myself don't even have the monthly bandwidth to pirate anything to begin with. There are next generation systems that allow for loading directly from internal hard drives for speed, performance, safer archival of purchased licenses and convenience. Nintendo cut costs putting 512mb of flash memory on board rendering this a cost effective but crippling storage decision.

I didn't join this board to be an asshole or accuse anyone of anything (mainly because I felt bad for a few people having trouble with things I thought I could help with) but seriously, like I said, piracy is more enabled by so-called homebrew software (GeckoOS) which I know you didn't design or code, but nobody really makes a big anti-piracy stink about that, even though it makes copying and distribution way easier than anything waninkoko has ever coded (I only use his mii copier anyway, not that it matters.) and I know the whole personal backup rule and all that, but what use is something like that running on an unmodded console if you can't use your backup copy to begin with? kinda silly, isn't it when you look at the whole picture?

Although I respect your work, I do feel you are a bit harsh on this board, and without people "getting on your nerves". I've seen posts of yours with some amazing information, but I'm also seeing you flame someone trying to code something that he leaves people's morals and personal decisions to decide for themselves where they go with extending it, just like you've done with the homebrew channel and twilight hack. And the whole IRC thing.....Before telling someone to go figure out their IRC situation on their own or take it up with the server, I personally would have taken the 5 minutes to help him set up a proxy to further collaborate and share knowledge, but that's just me.

I don't think you're a bad guy or anything negative on account of not supporting any kind of HDD loading solution, It's just when you present your opinions in such a way sometimes, people get curious about the motives. I've yet to see anyone in the old dreamcast or ps2 scenes bashing each other (and I know the deal with waninkoko's shoddy instructions for his region changer and the Wad installer drama, I understand that concern as it could result in damaged systems and I assume you and bushing have done countless testing of your own apps to keep those situations to a minimum if at all) it just reminds me of arguing with a girlfriend that says she doesn't want to talk about something, but still keeps commenting on bits and pieces of the argument she doesn't want to talk about, rather than just not talking about it at all.

Either way, thanks for responding to set the record straight and I wish you luck with your future developments.

 

[OrGoN3]

I try not to post here too often, but one thing I've consistently noticed is that, despite the lack of want to be "associated with piracy"... some of the most popular homebrew applications are, by most definitions... piracy-oriented.

Take emulation, for example. Whether you're injecting WADs that aren't available on the virtual console, or downloading any one of the HBC app packages that contain SNES9X, FCEU, and Gens plus, there's always the possibility of downloading something you don't actually own. "Hey, I rented this a long time ago and never found it again," or "I always wanted to try this game, but it's so rare and expensive now," or "Hey, they finished the MOTHER3 translation? Holy shit, I'd better download VBA and get a-patchin'!". Piracy, and all of it made possible by the Twilight Hack. In a less gaming-oriented example, a Media Player application can be used to watch downloaded videos -- and there's no signing to prove that you're watching home movies or freshly-subbed unlicensed anime.

As long as people can code these applications and have a method of running them, then Homebrew essentially allows -- proudly, with a gigantic dopey grin -- piracy. Enables it just as well as it enables the hobbyist to code a new, fresh platformer or art program. There's no sidestepping or avoiding it, that's just the nature of the beast.

Yes, my entire post is simply to point out that downloading unlicensed anime for free (or paying for it) from anyone but the distributor is illegal. It's a gray area since it'll cost the companies too much to file law suits over seas (usually), but it is most certainly illegal.

 

[marcan]

Take emulation, for example. Whether you're injecting WADs that aren't available on the virtual console, or downloading any one of the HBC app packages that contain SNES9X, FCEU, and Gens plus, there's always the possibility of downloading something you don't actually own. "Hey, I rented this a long time ago and never found it again," or "I always wanted to try this game, but it's so rare and expensive now," or "Hey, they finished the MOTHER3 translation? Holy shit, I'd better download VBA and get a-patchin'!". Piracy, and all of it made possible by the Twilight Hack.
No, sorry, you can already run emulators on every other platform out there. By enabling emulators on the Wii we aren't enabling any new form of piracy. And, for practical purposes, emulation "piracy" (roms), especially of outdated systems, is nowhere near as visible and as unpopular with companies as pirating top-seller modern games. Virtual Console still has a huge advantage over emulators: it Just Works and it has much better compatibility.

As for injections, those are at least illegal if you don't do them yourself or if you didn't buy both the injected game and the injectee game. And they may be illegal outright no matter what. They're certainly illegal if you download them ready-made. Not made possible by the Twilight Hack - made possible, just like all other VC/WiiWare piracy out there, by Waninkoko's FS Dumper (and in particular its associated gid 0 TMD) which started it all.

In a less gaming-oriented example, a Media Player application can be used to watch downloaded videos -- and there's no signing to prove that you're watching home movies or freshly-subbed unlicensed anime.
Where I live, not-for-profit media (read: not software) "piracy" is legal because we pay a levy on blank media and anything having to do with reproduction (that includes CDs, DVDs, hard drives, printers, and what have you). But that's besides the point. Movie players have tons of uses besides piracy and "backups". They can be used to watch movies that you own in a more convenient format. They can be used to watch (legal) free movies. They can be used to watch home movies. They enable you to watch original media that you couldn't watch in the first place. And even if they're used to watch pirated movies, that's a much weaker association than a game copy loader. Game copy loaders have exactly two purposes: Play pirated games, and play backed up games. And the latter doesn't happen very often.

QUOTE(RahanAkero @ Oct 10 2008, 03:36 AM)

As long as people can code these applications and have a method of running them, then Homebrew essentially allows -- proudly, with a gigantic dopey grin -- piracy. Enables it just as well as it enables the hobbyist to code a new, fresh platformer or art program. There's no sidestepping or avoiding it, that's just the nature of the beast.

As long as people can buy these utensils and have a method of using them, then knives essentially allow -- proudly, with a gigantic dopey grin -- murder. Enable it just as well as they enable a cook to make a succulent dish or as well as they enable your mom to make you dinner. There's no sidestepping or avoiding it, that's just the nature of the beast.

I know full well that being able to run homebrew, in and of itself, by definition, means you can run pirated games. That's just computer science and there's no way around it. If you want to be pedantic, just owning the console means, in and of itself, by definition, that you can run pirated games. That means you should never, ever, buy a console, because it can be used for piracy.

The point is that, to run pirated games, you need to code an application. It is those applications tailored specifically towards piracy (for practical purposes) that we dislike. Especially if they have the potential to greatly increase the availability of piracy.

I'll reply to Mark's reply later because I need some sleep and gbatemp has a stupid quote block limit.

 

[Mark McDonut]

eh you don't really HAVE to respond, that was generally me explaining myself for the most part as to what I meant, why I thought what I thought and and why some people may be taking what you're saying the wrong way.

The real bitch about forums is there is no tone of voice to really set a mood of a discussion. I'm not trying to sway your opinion on the situation either way, I guess part of me wanted to show you enough respect to explain that not everyone (although it IS the majority, I will agree on that, sadly) wants an HDD loader to rip off Nintendo or their third party publishers or whatever reasons they use to validate piracy to themselves.

Thoughts on backups can change pretty quickly when your favorite 3 gamecube games bought from the same shady gamestop start flaking on top and won't boot and your investment is down the toilet, and after all the emphasis publishers put on the fact that no one "owns" a game but owns a "license" seem like such bullshit when no one in the industry wants to help you because they already have your money so why should they care? Buy another one if you like it so much, they say.

I have such a hatred of modchips personally after getting in over my head and fucking my wii up once trying to install one (and after explaining to a Nintendo rep my reasoning behind it, they even cut me a deal and fixed it for $70 even though I fucked it up myself and voided my warranty and needed a new drive board and a new case/screws/etc. and the cheapest I could find a refurb'd drive online for was about $200+shipping

People really need to stop baiting you about dvd loader questions too. It really never ends well.

Thanks for explaining yourself and responding to my prior posts though. Although you and I may not see eye to eye on the situation of backups, I respect your opinion and value the work you and bushing have done and given us for free as safely as you could.

 

[Miles]

Good luck waiting for someone to.
1) Overcome the fact that the Wii doesn't have USB 2.0 drivers
2) Write a custom file system to overcome the fact that FAT 32 can't hold files larger than 4GB.

 

[Hyperlisk_]

Don't take any of this personally, but...

marcan, you helped start (soft-mod) piracy no matter what you say. What did Team Twiizers do? They opened up the Wii for unsigned code. What else did Team Twiizers do? "Oh hey guys! You can read from DVDs!" And also: "Oh here's some code that can't be _easily_ made into a backup loader, but whatever, have fun!"

So no matter what, unsigned code and piracy began with Team Twiizers (That includes you marcan).

Just some thoughts for people to ponder...

 

[DaveMode]

This thread has taught me one thing......

PIRACY, FµCK YEAH!!!!!!!!

That is all.

 

[Mark McDonut]

to Miles:

The ps2 usb loader (usbadvance) overcame that boundary by splitting iso files up into 1 gb pieces. the only issue there was that there is no flashable OS for a ps2 so the usb drivers couldn't be upgraded so some of my backed up games run pretty choppy. This was after checking to make sure the discs were clean when ripping and were legitimate pressed copies I ripped from. As far as usb 2.0 drivers go, I've seen a few things materialize on Wii that people said could not be done. I wouldn't say hold your breath, but I also wouldn't rule anything out either....

 

[noobwarrior7]

I made a copy and loaded it using my home-made chip. I didn't demand support from the rest of the world. Making the backup is legal, I did it myself, period.

as a side note to yall though, for those of us in the US of A,
these things are legal:
-Making a backup
-Modifying your system in some way to play backups

these things are illegal:
-Using the modification of your system to play your backups (and obviously, warez)


interesting, no?

 

[Miles]

to Miles:

The ps2 usb loader (usbadvance) overcame that boundary by splitting iso files up into 1 gb pieces. the only issue there was that there is no flashable OS for a ps2 so the usb drivers couldn't be upgraded so some of my backed up games run pretty choppy. This was after checking to make sure the discs were clean when ripping and were legitimate pressed copies I ripped from. As far as usb 2.0 drivers go, I've seen a few things materialize on Wii that people said could not be done. I wouldn't say hold your breath, but I also wouldn't rule anything out either....

FYI PS2 has physical USB 1.1, which is why it has such poor performance using USB HDD loaders (If you have USB Extreme or the like just install Free MC Boot and ESR. Much better alternative for PS2 Slim owner or PS2 Fat owners without a hard drive and Network Adaptor)

As for USB 2.0 drivers on the Wii, I see that being a problem.
Team Twiizers are experienced at what they do, there is no doubting that no matter how different our moral values differ from their's, and they are STILL having trouble get USB 2.0 to work.

It's possible, but I don't see it coming around any time soon.

As for the 1GB file split, I'm sure HD Loader and HD Advanced used a custom file system, but I wasn't aware that USB Extreme used FAT32.


QUOTE(noobwarrior7 @ Oct 9 2008, 10:07 PM) as a side note to yall though, for those of us in the US of A,
these things are legal:
-Making a backup
-Modifying your system in some way to play backups

these things are illegal:
-Using the modification of your system to play your backups (and obviously, warez)


interesting, no?

It's illegal to break the DRM that enforces the copyright on any digital format in the USA. Modifying any data of a backuped ISO is illegal under the DMCA. I know it's also illegal to sell modchips here, but I don't remember if using modchips fall under the DMCA.

 

[Mark McDonut]

Miles - Yeah, I opted to not bother with usb loading after it was so slow, unreliable, and choppy during fmv parts of my favorites (gta's/manhunt's) and just did 1:1 backups of my games, casemodded my ps2 (slim, on account of no IDE HDD support, and you don't need to patch them before burning like you do with ESR ) and boot them with swap magic instead. It's an extra step but I know I'm only buying the game once

for loading homwebrew I actually use ulaunchelf renamed to swapmagic.elf in the swapmagic folder and have it on the root of a 500gb usb hd with SMS player to play my ripped dvd's (i'm really protective of my shit and if possible usually only take it out once to rip a copy to watch with dvddecrypter and autogordianknot, save the Iso on a terabyte home server drive then it gets cased and shelved. +/- 30 cents is a small price to pay to insure what you purchase)

anyway, back on the main topic, I don't think usb for wii is close to 2.0 yet by any means, but there have been faster usb access speeds coming along with the new mplayer, so who knows what the future holds.....

 

[crazyguy]

Just a little note to all of the (usb) backup loader / launcher haters...

Homebrew should primary give us all possibilities to do things that we want and that are not supported or wished by Nintendo.

It also give us possibilities to break the (country specific) law.

You want that homebrew projects like the loaders are stopped - why?

There are a lot of legal possibilities to use that stuff.

If you say: "But people will use it for piracy!"

Its basicly their problem if they want to go to jail or pay huge amounts.

Should we stop to sale cars? There is the possibility to drive to fast!


Do you backup your PC?
Whats with the software on it - why is it ok to backup that stuff and not Wii games?

Just think about it...


And now: Start the flame

 

[Jacobeian]

no flame needed, you are "just another guy" who missed the whole point, read the thread again before thinking you come with a revolutionnary argument

I will even resume it for you: they are not against you pirating the wii, in fact they don't give a shit about what you are doing, they just don't want to be associated with piracy... and a backup loader will always lead to piracy, even if 5% will use it legally

it' a matter of personal opinion and moral, and everyone should at least respect that

 

[Saladman]

no flame needed, you are "just another guy" who missed the whole point, read the thread again before thinking you come with a revolutionnary argument

I will even resume it for you: they are not against you pirating the wii, in fact they don't give a shit about what you are doing, they just don't want to be associated with piracy... and a backup loader will always lead to piracy, even if 5% will use it legally

it' a matter of personal opinion and moral, and everyone should at least respect that

So respect is a one way street ? Because they sure don't seem to respect some certain people. In fact on their QueerRC channel they sound like a bunch of heckling old women constantly slagging off a certain someone, all the time, every day. They get off on it it's clear to see, but I guess thats what comes from hanging around FagRC all day.

 

[shredman]

About that Car analogy
-YOU PAY FOR THE CAR!!!-

you pay Marcan/Bushing/etc... NOTHING!

You want to use their FREE software for your own purposes
other than what they designate it for....
Write the software yourself!

So if you really want to compare analogies then you cant use this one....


in order to promote even more hatred

....backups the way you are creating them (to play on the Wii)

....is NOT an actual 1:1 backup of your game

....thus being NOT legal

....if you like - check the facts

....a legal backup of electronic media MUST be a 1:1 exact duplicate
of the software/game/whatever....to be completely legal

....you must also be able to provide the original or have reciepts to
prove that you purchased an original

***US law***

here in Australia there is no legal avenue to practice the 'backing up
of your electronic media' (copyrighted that is...)

SHREDMAN

 

[raajaa]

blanked.

 

[Athlon-pv]

There better things in this world to get upset about then copyright theft

 

[crazyguy]

About that Car analogy
-YOU PAY FOR THE CAR!!!-

And I pay for my Wii and for my Wii Games.

you pay Marcan/Bushing/etc... NOTHING!

Beside of respect for their work - or do you want to tell me that Homebrew should be commercial?

Write the software yourself!

Which I would if I had the knowledge about to do so or I had the time to learn it (but I am working the whole day and I am attending evening school -> no time)
But if you need something done with Java or C# for app dev or web dev I would surely help.

QUOTE(shredman @ Oct 10 2008, 11:51 AM)

here in Australia there is no legal avenue to practice the 'backing up
of your electronic media' (copyrighted that is...)

SHREDMAN

Also in Austria (where I live) backups are legal (as stated in law).

And btw I see the argument of marcan and bushing about a loader leading to the dark side but I don't want them to do one - I want that someone do one.
And I just want people stop flaming everyone who has an idea on doing some Wii stuff which could lead to something like a loader.

Sorry if I am sounding a little bit harsh - as English is not my native language my posts are sometimes sounding more agressive than they were intended to.