EA Refuse to Refund SimCity - Possible account ban if you take action

[Guild McCommunist]

EA still has dick policies nonetheless, despite making huge financial successes. The very fact they refuse to refund paying customers is absurd. And yet they sit around wondering why piracy is rampant.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8360-wejc-2625#refund

Because you can always get refunds for digital games.

 

[ForteGospel]

how this started to be a pc vs consoles discussion anyway?

ontopic:

Diablo III went online-saves-only partially to combat cheating (see this for some comparison info). Sim City, from what I understand, doesn't need anything like that, but is always-online anyways as a form of DRM.

I don't have the game nor have I followed this version, but from what I heard your city is part of a larger online province, where you can make traffic connections, trade resources with other players and even make cooperative construction projects with other players. thus making this into a mutiplayer game at its core.

Happened for Assassin's Creed IIRC. The server feeds critical resources to the game, so somebody just logged the resources in transmission, whipped up a little script for Apache to send the right responses, then bundled it so pirates could run their own local server.

yeah I knew about the assassins drm, but that's a single player game...

 

[Gahars]

Sure, Origin is getting EA's games, but they aren't getting a whole lot else, and whatever else comes to Origin, will already be on Steam aside from EA games since other developers have the brains to recognize that the wider your sales base, the more copies of your product you can sell. When you, as a company, go out of your way to pull games from one service because you dislike having to pay to have the updates hosted, that shows you are a complete dickweed of a company who doesn't care about marketability and appeasing your customers. The last EA game I bought on Steam was Battlefield: Bad Company 2, I am still mad that they refused to release anything after that on Steam aside from Mass Effect 2 I think, and that also includes Mass Effect 3 which I wanted to play. There are many PC gamer's like myself who refuse to buy into Origin because of EA's atrocious business ethics, so as much as they want to save money, they are losing customer support and potential buys by limiting their games on PC to using and requiring Origin to play.

I fail to see how this makes EA a "dickweed" of a company.

EA sees the market for digital distribution is thriving and wants a piece of the pie, so they start up their own service. Making their games exclusive to Origin isn't malicious - it's just common sense. It just attracts customers who might otherwise ignore the service. It's not malicious in any way, shape or form, and it certainly isn't "bad business ethics" at all. What, is Valve a complete dickweed because they don't offer Half-Life 2 on Green Man Gaming?

EA pulls dick moves all the time, absolutely, and the SimCity debacle is a fuck up of colossal proportions. I'll be the absolute first person to agree there, but whining like this is beyond obnoxious. EA is not the big bad bogeyman of the games industry.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

how this started to be a pc vs consoles discussion anyway?

ontopic:


I don't have the game nor have I followed this version, but from what I heard your city is part of a larger online province, where you can make traffic connections, trade resources with other players and even make cooperative construction projects with other players. thus making this into a mutiplayer game at its core.


yeah I knew about the assassins drm, but that's a single player game...

Well people still complain about Diablo III's DRM. Like they should have the game very online oriented but also offer it to be played offline. Multiplayer is still probably the best piracy deterrent that people like. You make a game with solid online and people will probably end up buying your game to play online with everyone else.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Sure, Origin is getting EA's games, but they aren't getting a whole lot else, and whatever else comes to Origin, will already be on Steam aside from EA games since other developers have the brains to recognize that the wider your sales base, the more copies of your product you can sell. When you, as a company, go out of your way to pull games from one service because you dislike having to pay to have the updates hosted, that shows you are a complete dickweed of a company who doesn't care about marketability and appeasing your customers. The last EA game I bought on Steam was Battlefield: Bad Company 2, I am still mad that they refused to release anything after that on Steam aside from Mass Effect 2 I think, and that also includes Mass Effect 3 which I wanted to play. There are many PC gamer's like myself who refuse to buy into Origin because of EA's atrocious business ethics, so as much as they want to save money, they are losing customer support and potential buys by limiting their games on PC to using and requiring Origin to play.

What EA is doing is no different than Nintendo keeping Mario and Zelda and Pokemon exclusive. No different than Sony keeping Uncharted and Killzone exclusive. It's to sway consumers to your products and services.

 

[the_randomizer]

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8360-wejc-2625#refund

Because you can always get refunds for digital games.

Yeah, you're right, Steam has invasive DRM and always forces games to be online...oh wait....*switched to offline mode*

 

[Minox]

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8360-wejc-2625#refund

Because you can always get refunds for digital games.

That is not entirely true. They do not offer refunds on games that works on your computer, however they have on several occasions issued refunds when games don't work.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Yeah, you're right, Steam has invasive DRM and always forces games to be online...oh wait....*switched to offline mode*

Except if the internet goes out before you have the chance to switch to offline mode, then you can't play them. I ran into this a lot. Our internet would go out, and all of a sudden, I can't play any steam games.

 

[ForteGospel]

Well people still complain about Diablo III's DRM. Like they should have the game very online oriented but also offer it to be played offline. Multiplayer is still probably the best piracy deterrent that people like. You make a game with solid online and people will probably end up buying your game to play online with everyone else.

geez there are people complaining about diablo 3 drm? seriously I never had any problem with it... also why does no one say that online only games are a way to incentive online playing?
like... diablo 2 had lots of fans, but many of them didn't play online, hell they didn't even got an original copy of the game, thus lowering the possible players for online...

now on 2013, if a company creates a game to motivate online interaction gets bashed?
also to prove my point:


from 06:30 to the min 8:06 you can this is not a single player game any more...

 

[Rydian]

Except if the internet goes out before you have the chance to switch to offline mode, then you can't play them. I ran into this a lot. Our internet would go out, and all of a sudden, I can't play any steam games.

I had that issue too, but then realized that the reason Steam wouldn't go into offline mode was because it THOUGHT I still had internet access, and was trying to synch some saves before going offline. The obvious problem being that I didn't have internet access.

In my case, it was the virtual adapter for Hamachi, which lies about it's status and was reporting an internet connection even if there wasn't one. Removed Hamachi, Steam was no longer lied to, offline switching has worked just fine for me for months.

 

[the_randomizer]

Except if the internet goes out before you have the chance to switch to offline mode, then you can't play them. I ran into this a lot. Our internet would go out, and all of a sudden, I can't play any steam games.

Well, there are ways to hack steam.dll to bypass the validation check, but they might find out and ban your account. My internet stopped dropping, but it still sucks big time; I hate our current ISP, and it's not even Comcast!

Again, EA are being arrogant douchebags about it and don't care about paying customers, Steam on the other hand, doesn't go about bragging about their DRM. At least they let you play games if there's no connection (assuming you enter offline mode).

 

[retKHAAAN]

Could apply to consoles too.

Why have such a strong stance on the matter if you don't care? (Hint: you do care enough to automatically reject anybody trying to dissuade you from your current opinion.)

I wasn't talking about console users in general (ease of use for a more limited experience is still ease of use).

lolno, nice try though. PC gaming is affordable to the average person (a Ferrari is specifically noted as not.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227448
$479, $120 less than the price the PS3 came out at, and will play future games for a while.
(Just a quick prebuilt example, if you want actual suggestions that's better for another thread.)

What you seem to be missing here is that you're trying to convince an adult (with a 50 hour a week job, and a family) that the way he partakes in a hobby (in which he only spends maybe 3 hours a week doing) is inferior because he is not spending $500 on hardware to do it. Also, showing me that a PC is $120 less than the PS3 was when it came out is certainly not a head-turner... I will never spend more than $300 on a video game console. Video games are not a high priority.

"But consoles get cheaper over time" - Because the hardware they're using gets older. Same with PCs. That PC has way more modern parts than the PS3, for example. I could find you a cheaper/used one along the level of the PS3, but even theoretically you'd be much happier with newer parts than older ones.

And my computer does what I need it to, while a console doesn't... and my computer does more that I enjoy as well, such as letting me mod games and multi-task, record gameplay and tweaks, etc.

Right. I have a console for when I want to play video games. And I have a laptop that I take with me pretty much everywhere I go for work. One stays home, while the other goes. One remains in use by family while the other is used by me. And I promise that I paid less for both of those combined than you did for your PC (that I'm guessing can only be used by one person at a time).

It's fine if you don't want to do that stuff, but don't try to pretend none of the advantages exist when you directly ask for them. XD

I don't argue at all about the advantages of PC gaming. However, none of those advantages apply to me as I'm not the "target audience". I am a budget gamer who cares little for having the latest tech or playing the latest games. I didn't even get into the current gen until December 2009 and even then bought a ms refurbed xbox and 5 games for a whopping $150. PC gaming is affordable to the average person? What exactly denotes average? I'm married with one child, a nice home in a nice neighborhood with a two-car garage. That sounds pretty average. Yet...I still can't justify dropping $500 (or more) for the latest anything... Maybe that's why I'm living so comfortably?

The thread was about the PC, somebody was complaining that they needed to install a game from a disc on the PC and couldn't just run it immediately like on older consoles.

Yeah, not clicking. Though, why shouldn't I be able to play my PC games off disc? I could play Number Munchers and Oregon Trail right off the disc...

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Well, there are ways to hack steam.dll to bypass the validation check, but they might find out and ban your account. My internet stopped dropping, but it still sucks big time; I hate our current ISP, and it's not even Comcast!

Again, EA are being arrogant douchebags about it and don't care about paying customers, Steam on the other hand, doesn't go about bragging about their DRM. At least they let you play games if there's no connection (assuming you enter offline mode).

I never recalled EA "bragging" about their DRM. Hell Maxis even called it "dumb".

Like EA does have shitty business practices but I find people play them out to be more of the comical Eurovillain than they really are. The fact that it beat Walmart in the user poll is just outrageous. EA has microtransactions, boohoo. Walmart moves into a town, literally kills all local economy, and absorbs it like some Blob.

 

[the_randomizer]

I never recalled EA "bragging" about their DRM. Hell Maxis even called it "dumb".

Like EA does have shitty business practices but I find people play them out to be more of the comical Eurovillain than they really are. The fact that it beat Walmart in the user poll is just outrageous. EA has microtransactions, boohoo. Walmart moves into a town, literally kills all local economy, and absorbs it like some Blob.

I couldn't care less about Walmart; they treat their employees like crap and I cannot understand why they're so f***ing popular.

 

[Rydian]

~

Remind me why I don't PC game again?

If you don't like this type of discussion, then why openly invite it?

Yeah, not clicking. Though, why shouldn't I be able to play my PC games off disc? I could play Number Munchers and Oregon Trail right off the disc...

With more modern games, load times are a main factor. Modern harddrives are slow, but still faster than disc-based medium. It's not as much of an issue on consoles because they have less resources (lower-resolution textures and such) and can more easily stream off the disc (though as we've seen lots of games need installs now on consoles).

 

[Gahars]

I cannot understand why they're so f***ing popular.

Because they sell their goods at very low prices?

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I couldn't care less about Walmart; they treat their employees like crap and I cannot understand why they're so f***ing popular.

Because their prices are cheap and they're convenient. Like I go to Walmart as much as the next average American but they do so much terrible shit, much worse than EA. And especially when it comes to luxuries, I'm not going to throw a fit over something I like. If EA is a dick here, it's not gonna stop me from buying Dragon Age III (if DA3 looks good that is). I'm not gonna limit my entertainment over pointless "ethics" here. Maybe if their money supported child slavery then yeah but over microtransactions and DRM? Give me a break.

 

[DSGamer64]

I fail to see how this makes EA a "dickweed" of a company.

EA sees the market for digital distribution is thriving and wants a piece of the pie, so they start up their own service. Making their games exclusive to Origin isn't malicious - it's just common sense. It just attracts customers who might otherwise ignore the service. It's not malicious in any way, shape or form, and it certainly isn't "bad business ethics" at all. What, is Valve a complete dickweed because they don't offer Half-Life 2 on Green Man Gaming?

EA pulls dick moves all the time, absolutely, and the SimCity debacle is a fuck up of colossal proportions. I'll be the absolute first person to agree there, but whining like this is beyond obnoxious. EA is not the big bad bogeyman of the games industry.

No, it's not common sense to limit your PC distribution to one service and hard copies, of which both versions require the same program to even run. The fact of the matter is that EA not putting the games they publish on Steam is now detracting from bigger sales numbers. Sure, they can have Origin to sell their games on, that has never been my biggest issue with EA the last few years. My issue has been with the fact that even if I bought an EA game in a store, I would still have to use Origin to run it. You don't need Steam to be online to play your games and pretty much every development studio has come to accept that Always Online requirements are absolutely fucking stupid.

EA threatened to ban people from Origin because of the Mass Effect 3 ending, yeah that's some stupid shit to complain about, but EA releasing a broken single player game that requires you to be online all the time and has no offline mode to speak of, on top of the fact that it requires Origin to play, is terrible. EA is notorious for fucking with PC gamers though, and whether or not you think they are the "big bad boogeyman of the games industry", they have a really bad track record when it comes to PC gaming and their lack of interest in putting out a quality product or even one that is available through multiple sources.

 

[kristianity77]

I never PC game because its more hassle and costly than it's worth. But only knowing EA from consoles, what happens to Sim City on the PC when EA decide they can't be arsed anymore and pull the server? Does the game become unplayable for all who purchased it?

 

[EyeZ]

I never PC game because its more hassle and costly than it's worth. But only knowing EA from consoles, what happens to Sim City on the PC when EA decide they can't be arsed anymore and pull the server? Does the game become unplayable for all who purchased it?

Yes, unless EA can put out a patch to change this.