Hacking [discussion] Why 5.5.x is ready for its Kexploit

[vgmoose]

Hi all,

I want to sidestep all the drama (not sure if fully possible). I know there are things on the horizon. Everyone knows there are things on the horizon. We can be patient for these things to be completed to their fullest, because we're all big kids here.

What I want to talk about is the objective fact that there are several developers, myself included, that are on 5.5.x and whose homebrew is suffering from a lack of a kernel exploit being made available. Homebrew is advancing more and more, but it's clear that the limits of what can be done in userland are being pushed.

The thing is, yellows8 already (accidentally, as it was believed to be patched) released the browser exploit, which allowed more developers who are on 5.5.x to get into the scene. Continuing to intentionally keep a kernel exploit a secret is preventing these developers from creating new innovative homebrew.

There's the Homebrew Launcher out, which is new and exciting. It's so exciting that I (being on 5.5) had to blindly try to support it.

I don't want to name any other developers, but I want to go on the public record as a dev who is against this blocking on the community. I would love to continue bringing innovation to the homebrew scene, but am finding it very hard to find the inspiration when any homebrew I write is essentially a glorified web app.

I like to keep things open and give back to the community, so I really can't understand the mindset that keeping it private is somehow productive. If it's a matter of being afraid of being sued, I'd like to point out that Sony was not successful with their lawsuit. They settled out of court (read: paid him off to stop *speculation*).

And yes I'm actively researching kernel exploits and trying to find one, but it isn't easy... I've heard @Marionumber1 has given his kernel exploit to some devs, but I'm not interested in being in some exclusive developer club. I am interested in the furthering of the community and the homebrew scene.

I like to control my devices, and I don't like not having control over them. I don't like the reaction that some people have on this forum that all people wanting the kernel exploit are whiny pirate babies.

Nintendo has decided that they decide what people do on their own devices. They've decided this so much to the point that the Wii U's operating system self-updates. As the users, we have the power to take back control. Yes this is a righteous cause, and no we should no condemn people for wanting freedom. (perhaps we can condemn the actually whiny ones though).

As far as I am aware this thread is not against any gbatemp rules. Moderators, if you have an issue with this thread, please let me know so that I can adjust my attitude. But please don't silence it just for being what it is.

Let's have an intelligent discussion about the pros and cons of releasing vs holding onto exploits. To me, it blocks developers from creating content. Nintendo is going to patch in the end if they care enough, no matter what, and there are devs that are ready to advance the scene right now.

I'm very open to hearing other points of view. I'm coming from a background with open source philosophies, so maybe I'm missing something here. I just don't see why this should be a special case.

With much love,
A user

PS: For the record, I am not referring to IOSU at all, but simply the existing, private kexploit for 5.5.

 

[DarkenedMatter]

A nicely put together thread but you're still gonna get flamed.

 

[LoganK93]

I though one of the release conditions was that the scene needed to have a real use for it outside of backup loaders, which it certainly does at this point as you've said.

 

[steelseth]

You are making the assumption that they are doing this for the benefit of the community.
I think they do it for their own ego and personal gain, any benefit to the community is just a side effect.
I bet the next security convention Smea attends is when the exploit will be released.




Wait .....





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OK Im ready attack.

 

[BothyBhoy]

a well informed and well put argument.....thank you....

 

[deinonychus71]

I understand your opinion and I agree with most of it.
However, as of today, I am not sure that "a lot of devs" are actually waiting for this exploit, or at least not versus the number of consumers.

That, and a major change is about to happen and will probably lead to a major update (I'm talking of the new Miimoto/My Nintendo), it's a very legit reason to not release anything till this update comes out.

I am personally not directly affected by the lack of exploit on last version, I went ahead and got a second Wii U already to learn the basic and help modding (still very new).
BUT I can totally understand that not every dev can (or want) afford a second console. Ive read somewhere from someone supposely "within the trust circle" that it was their problem, I don't agree with that, at all. We are supposed to help each other at the end of the day.

It would be nice if said devs would speak up here, see exactly how many of us have real motives to help the scene. All Ive seen for a while are (very) impatient consumers.

 

[H3llbender]

Thank you, for posting this. The thread was nicely executed, and brought up many valid arguments. Not only will the kernel exploit help developers, but also make developing much easier. I would also like to see other developer's point of view on this topic.

 

[Logan Pockrus]

I though one of the release conditions was that the scene needed to have a real use for it outside of backup loaders, which it certainly does at this point as you've said.

I don't disagree with this argument, I just hate it. Why would it appear to have a good use if it's not even released? Devs aren't just sitting around daydreaming about what could be rather than what they can make.

 

[Durig]

if i remember right somebody somewhere said that some devs already got their hands on exploit and developing for a long( maybe not to long) time.
i personally think that circle of trusted devs cant be harmed with vgmoose in it ( maybe some more devs that just dont come in mind right now).
i humble asking devs to share exploit with such devs ( maybe votes on irc channel and then share it idk how to choose "capable" devs)

 

[DarkJediRey]

I don't want to add to drama, but it would be cool to see something released on Mar10 day ( march 10). Although, it's been fun seeing how far 5.5.0 has come in just a few months, if you think about it, it's been a shorter time than for hax 5.3.2 and 5.4.0. Thx evryone for the hard work so far

 

[endoverend]

I understand your opinion and I agree with most of it.
However, as of today, I am not sure that "a lot of devs" are actually waiting for this exploit, or at least not versus the number of consumers.

Yeah, I'd like to second this notion. I mean, it sucks that you personally are being held back like this but if you're really talking about what's good for the scene as opposed to for yourself... it's probably better that it stays hidden for now. To put things in a ridiculous perspective, Wii U vulnerabilities are like a steak at a fancy restaurant, you've got to savor them as opposed to just tearing them apart in one big bite. Frankly, most people who claim to be involved in Wii U hacking have all they need at the moment what with backup loaders, VC injection, savegame management, firmware spoofing, and emuNAND coming soon. The point is that there are several options for you that are relatively easy to follow that will, in fact, help the scene more and help you personally. The first option being to simply ask MN1 or any related devs for the exploit in the IRC channel, and I am absolutely sure that he, being a gracious fellow even to non-developers to me, would be ecstatic to entrust the exploit into the hands of a fresh developer such as yourself. The second option would be to buy another Wii U console-only, which is only $100 and I'm sure if you are really interested in developing that cost should be of no concern to you.

 

[LoganK93]

I don't disagree with this argument, I just hate it. Why would it appear to have a good use if it's not even released? Devs aren't just sitting around daydreaming about what could be rather than what they can make.

I took it more as enough people needed to be interested in the "could be". Then if enough actual developers were interested in that they would release so that things could be built back up. There were some other factors also, like if it were patched or if there was a second one meaning they could burn one and still have one left (although that criteria has been met as well... But not my place to say what should be done.)

 

[dpad_5678]

Continuing to intentionally keep a kernel exploit a secret is preventing these developers from creating new innovative homebrew.

Bullshit. You just want Loadiine/piracy.

 

[H3llbender]

Bullshit. You just want Loadiine/piracy.

vgmoose is a trusted developer in the Wii U hacking scene. If you look on wiiubrew.org is exploit is the only featured homebrew application. I don't think he wants the exploit for piracy.

 

[socialbacon]

There is no reason to turn this post hostile or reply with ad hominem attacks. This is exactly why we cannot have discussions about such matters.

 

[CableLeecher]

Bullshit. You just want Loadiine/piracy.

Really?

Do you even know who you are talking to?
Your post is bullshit!

@vgmoose is a trusted developer and with his thread he is not refering to IOSU...

 

[ajd4096]

What I want to talk about is the objective fact that there are several developers, myself included, that are on 5.5.x and are suffering from a lack of a kernel exploit being made available. Homebrew is advancing more and more, but it's clear that the limits of what can be done in userland are being pushed.

Suffering? Suffering from a lack of a kernel exploit being handed to you on a plate?

First world problems.

Waiter! More whine, please!

 

[daxtsu]

Really?

Do you even know who you are talking to?
Your post is bullshit!

@vgmoose is a trusted developer and with his thread he is not refering to IOSU...

Don't feed the troll, he makes lots of posts like that in the 3DS section too.

 

[socialbacon]

[EDIT]

Nooooooope. Not feeding.

 

[ajd4096]

I think vgmoose is using "suffering" as a present participle, not a noun.

Yes. He is suffering a lack of a kexploit in the same way that I am suffering a lack of double-choc icecream.