Can nintendo break Arm9LoaderHax?

Discussion in '3DS - Console, Accessories and Hardware' started by Nyap, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Nyap
    OP

    Nyap HTML Noob

    Banned
    973
    344
    Jan 13, 2016
    That Chaos Site
    Can nintendo release an update that breaks a9lh?
     
  2. Nyap
    OP

    Nyap HTML Noob

    Banned
    973
    344
    Jan 13, 2016
    That Chaos Site
    oops wrong section
     
  3. dg_dex

    dg_dex GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    142
    32
    Feb 27, 2016
    To answer your question, yes they can, but no they can't. If your chosen CFW running alongside A9LH isn't protecting the FIRM's, then yes, Nintendo could release an update which could either result in a brick or render your A9LH hack useless. However, there are a few methods which one could use to recover from that.

    1; The end user could just run Decrypt9 and restore a backed up nand.bin. Of course the end user would need to have Decrypt9 already setup to boot via L+R or what ever button configuration they want.
    2; The end user could simply restore a backed up nand.bin by utilizing a hard mod.
    3; An entry point to run Sysupdater to enable the user to downgrade from the new stock firmware to a much earlier firmware. This method is less likely if Nintendo decide to alter the native_firm.

    These are all points that I've seen around this forum. With a quick search, you would of been able to find the answer your looking for. I might be slightly off mark on the above outcomes. However, at least I did some research before asking a question.
     
    Last edited by dg_dex, Mar 31, 2016
    bowser likes this.
  4. daxtsu

    daxtsu GBAtemp Guru

    Member
    5,494
    3,879
    Jun 9, 2007
    In theory, they could, but at this point in the 3DS's life-cycle, it's not very likely that they'll devote much effort to stopping it. CFW users make up a small portion of the entire 3DS userbase, and the next console (NX) is on the way within a year or so, so they're most likely focusing their attention on that. I'll guess that they'll patch svchax/memchunkhax2.1/memchunkhax3 (whatever you want to call it), and browserhax/menuhax as those rise again, but probably won't do much more than that.
     
    PacPera and peteruk like this.
  5. SomeGamer

    SomeGamer Within Hyrule Castle

    Member
    5,729
    2,676
    Dec 19, 2014
    Hungary
    How if the user's A9LH got overwritten? I don't think this is possible.
     
    Just Passing By likes this.
  6. Just Passing By

    Just Passing By GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,562
    594
    Jan 3, 2016
    United States
    You're right. It's not possible. He's wrong in that regard.
     
    peteruk likes this.
  7. dg_dex

    dg_dex GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    142
    32
    Feb 27, 2016
    Well I thought the exact same as yourself until a few days back when I was corrected in someone else's thread. I was told that Decrypt9 boots well before the Nand. Therefor, Nintendo would only strip away the CFW from booting. I have a hard time believing this too. I'll try and find the thread that I was corrected in.
     
  8. Apache Thunder

    Apache Thunder I have cameras in your head!

    Member
    4,091
    3,996
    Oct 7, 2007
    United States
    Levelland, Texas
    It would be very difficult for Nintendo to bork A9L. They could temporarily block it with a firmware update that patches Arm9LoaderHax and uses a new key for FIRM encryption. But because of the OTP being compromized, one can just decrypt the secret sector again and get the new key. Unlike before there won't be a long wait time at all before emunand/latest FIRM support on CFW is available. Nintendo is pretty screwed in that regard. They can prevent downgrading of non exploitable consoles. But ones that have already been exploited and have A9L will be hard for Nintendo to stop at this stage.


    They can try and change how the secret sector is encrypted. But not sure if that's even possible at this stage.
     
    Last edited by Apache Thunder, Mar 31, 2016
    peteruk, I pwned U!, daxtsu and 2 others like this.
  9. SomeGamer

    SomeGamer Within Hyrule Castle

    Member
    5,729
    2,676
    Dec 19, 2014
    Hungary
    The only way I can see this happen is that if the CFW doesn't support the new firmware version yet.
     
  10. Just Passing By

    Just Passing By GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,562
    594
    Jan 3, 2016
    United States
    Unless they're a reputable source. Don't listen. They're wrong. It doesn't just strip away cfw booting. It removes a9lh. That's why one of the ways to return to stock is by updating without firm patching.
     
  11. dg_dex

    dg_dex GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    142
    32
    Feb 27, 2016
    I figured. I should of just trusted my own instincts on that one. I will give that member his or her prop for making me think about it.
     
    Just Passing By likes this.
  12. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolfdog™ I drool on my knife

    Member
    19,381
    19,786
    Sep 13, 2009
    Antarctica
    Between insane and insecure
    The issue right now is all the current firmware are running on 10.4 FIRM, so we we really don't fully know if A9LH can work past that. According to the nerd, CFW with Firm0/1 protection will protect A9LH from being broken with an update, but really only time will tell.
     
  13. daxtsu

    daxtsu GBAtemp Guru

    Member
    5,494
    3,879
    Jun 9, 2007
    Doing so on N3DS will brick you. That is only "safe" on O3DS (can someone with a hard-modded O3DS confirm this?).
     
  14. Just Passing By

    Just Passing By GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,562
    594
    Jan 3, 2016
    United States
    Oh really? Huh. I have an o3ds, so I've never had to worry about that. You're smarter than me, and I was wondering, how does an update without firm patching remove a9lh? Yeah nooby question I know, but I've never actually figured it out.
     
  15. daxtsu

    daxtsu GBAtemp Guru

    Member
    5,494
    3,879
    Jun 9, 2007
    It bricks on N3DS because the N3DS has the "secret sector" where they hid the 9.6+ key, and A9LH corrupts that, so when regular FIRM would go to be decrypted, well, it'll be decrypted to garbage, which then translates into a brick. FIRM1, the backup partition, would also decrypt to garbage because of the corrupted key.

    Moving on to the next question, updating without the protection would remove A9LH, because the protection prevents the FIRM from updating that part of NAND. I'm not entirely sure how it does it, but if I had to guess, it probably just skips to the end of that code, telling the OS that it installed already/everything is okay (so it's lying). Either that or it just tells the 3DS to go on to another part of the update altogether, not even needing to lie. Delebile, AHP_Person, or maybe even Aurora can probably elaborate further if you want to know the technical bit of it.
     
    Just Passing By likes this.
  16. driverdis

    driverdis I am Justice

    Member
    2,353
    886
    Sep 21, 2011
    United States
    1.048596β
    the best thing Nintendo can do is to update Native FIRM so AuReiNAND and Cakes become incompatible with it (the firms will be protected from being written to) and force stuff like the menu to require the updated firm. this will temp brick people with SysNAND only CFW and break EmuNAND for 9.2 SysNAND + Updated EmuNAND users like myself until CFW is updated to support this.

    EDIT:
    The best way to annoy users would be to update the FIRM on every update and require critical apps to need that firm to run.
     
    Last edited by driverdis, Mar 31, 2016
  17. EmanueleBGN

    EmanueleBGN GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    693
    340
    Jul 22, 2015
    Italy
    Nintendo said that 3DS (and Wii U) will be supported during the NX life
     
  18. Yami Anubis ZX

    Yami Anubis ZX Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    79
    26
    Mar 20, 2016
    United States
    Nintendo says alot of stuff, just because they say something, doesn't mean it's gonna be true, there a business and companies like them lie all the time.
     
    Raylight likes this.
  19. Nyap
    OP

    Nyap HTML Noob

    Banned
    973
    344
    Jan 13, 2016
    That Chaos Site
    Couldn't Nintendo just release an update which overhauls the boot process entirely? Patching out a9lh?