"Asocial media" and collective self images

Discussion in 'General Off-Topic Chat' started by notimp, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Very astute observation.

    Here is a summery. Smartphoneusers are ruining gbatemp by asking for "services" but providing nothing in return. That social interaction was mainly learned on social networks, where stuff like this flys, because the result of interactions doesnt stick - for them to get a bad rep for trying. (Everscrolling newsfeed.)

    Then someone tried to end the discussion by calling people mentally ill.

    Then someone liked that.

    Then we talked about if facebook can get replaced in the near future by a random competitor (answer: not likely).

    Then we talked a little about a world without gatekeepers, where everyones opinion becomes so important, even posting how you feel about a subject if you know nothing about it (/havent read anything about it), is seen as worthwhile (summery: some people like it, its just their jam).

    Also - it all started with a rant - link in the first posting.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 17, 2018
  2. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    I would have said the complete opposite.

    I can have my email organised however I please, as do many clients of mine. Filters, ordering, threading.... and this is something as crusty as email and usenet is not much different. While myspace, bebo et al probably taught us that user customisation others can see is not ideal in the real world. Focus it with a default client (or prebaked clients) and go from there.

    I would still maintain whatever that was did little in the long run. Among the general populous nobody really understood it, indeed I might look to the line of high profile hacks of things prior and ponder if that did something to promote a nice bit of apathy, and having the various C levels talk to politicos was a farce most of the time.

    As for the rest. Possibly. I am content to watch it burn though.
     
  3. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Embrace yourself

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    You continue to make blanket statements and expect people to agree with you coupled without actually giving a solution that isn't just gating off the community. Are you suggesting that people requesting help and getting help are to be expected to give something in return? What are you suggesting that they provide to the community if their services are met? You aren't suggesting much in the manor of solving the problem, you've just been throwing out blanket statements.
     
  4. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.

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    I am probably falling into a couple of your "millennial stereotypes", but I will share my opinion here regarding your original post.

    Please, try to write your posts better, specially the one opening a thread. *1

    It is not immediately clear that you want to start a discussion, or what the details of the topic are... actually, it is quite hard to follow.
    Not even your position on the topic is clear.

    And then comes the next problem, you've posted quite a lot of text that takes a long time to read, but it lacks a proper and clear introduction/persuasion/invitation segment. *2

    It would be great to understand what is your point, to what exactly are you inviting the reader, what type of interaction are you proposing. The information is kind of there, but not clearly, and way to late in the OP (in the blog thread).

    Perhaps you have already rectified this in following posts, but after reading many posts on the original blog and a couple here, I decided that I had already spent too much time in this and needed to go back to my usual tasks (work?). *2++

    *1: Yeah, perhaps that's a bit of "you do/help me", "not being part of the solution"... but you know, if you write it clearer you are saving "decoding/interpretation" work for a lot of readers, so you do more work but a lot of others do less, it's more efficient! (lazy person excuse)

    *2: People like things served in a silver platter, I wouldn't say it is just "millennials" but actually people from any generation today. They have kind of become used to having solutions served to them... in any case that may be related to the lazy and too specialized modern way of life.
     
    Last edited by sarkwalvein, Sep 17, 2018 - Reason: l2e
  5. Flame

    Flame Me > You

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    here is a gbatemp; in fact any forum secret.

    and why I have more likes then post.

    keep it nice and short and get to the point.
     
    Last edited by Flame, Sep 30, 2018
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  6. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Embrace yourself

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    Always remember the KISS principle
     
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  7. dAVID_

    dAVID_ Carpinter's Apprentice

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  8. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Your original thread-turned-blog post critically generalizing the behavior of an entire generation didn't get the attention you wanted it to, so you make a new thread critically generalizing site dynamics rather than just... accepting that nobody cared?...

    Yike
     
  9. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    The original thread was moved from here to the "blog section" by moderators, without any comment, within 15 minutes of it going online to prevent any resulting discussion, if any should have been possible. There was an argument to do so, because it was written to be very provocative - but there was no feedback given at all. It just suddenly was moved out of the public eye. Also - I wouldnt for the life of me consider to "write a blog on gbatemp" ever, because structurally not owning the publishing platform for your own blog to me makes absolutely no sense.

    Also - touching a little on the mental health subject, but in a more sensitive way. Here is a The Guardian article from today referencing a consensus in the field of psychology - that faking working social structures on social media makes people miserable. They use instagram as an example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technol...endly-so-why-is-it-making-people-so-miserable

    But gbatemp with the usual 10 unanswered "I want support" requests in any given homebrew release thread in a row strikes a similar vain. (The community is proposed - but ultimately isnt there.) Talking about that this is dysfunctional is not seen as acceptable, people who do, get played with, censored and heckled.

    Discussion attempts about this - and how this default resulted because of the ad financing focus of social media - is now met by indifference, and heavy mobbing.

    That said - I plan to return to this thread and link interesting tidbits and newsstories once in a while - I'm still trying to make the behavior of most people here a general topic of discussion. And I commend moderators for at least allowing that.

    The third time around.

    In regards to fellow users I'm not so sure.

    I've already been called boring, insane, and an attention seeker in here - just because I chose to make this a topic of discussion. The 4chan treatment would have been more favorable.

    And this while bringing up an argument - that the cliche representation of a millennial/snowflake - learned to never win arguments online by means other than attacking another persons character.

    The thing is, that forum structures actually allow for arguments like this (but not exclusively) to actually stick, and be had. The social media newsfeed (or "personal gbatemp blog" feed) just scrolls them out of the picture.

    Talking about complex and difficult issues - takes more than the typical guttural emotional response.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 19, 2018
  10. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Embrace yourself

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    If a tree falls in a middle of the woods and Newspaper editor isn't around to see it, are Millennials still at fault?
    It would help if you just made one post that focused on one topic at a time, then maybe people would be able to follow along. You are making lengthy walls of texted that are filled with generalized opinions on topics, coupled with only pushing your own opinions on others. You don't leave any room for conversation, yet expect a conversation to happen.
     
    Last edited by Lilith Valentine, Sep 19, 2018
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  11. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Ah yes. The site moderators are out to get you, specifically, because of your revolutionary views on millennial culture. If you weren't right they wouldn't be after you! Keep it up I say!

    Oooooor it could be that the topic was a matter of personal opinion, which would make it better suited for a blog post?...
     
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  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Also never mind that blogs appear in new content for most people, to say nothing of them routinely hosting hundreds of reply topics about all matter of things that seem to fall under the realms of politics, morality, communities and human psychology.
     
  13. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    In the following thread ( https://gbatemp.net/threads/pfba-final-burn-alpha.497188/page-37 ) responses in regards to the same question asked on page 37 of the topic, already having been answered on page 1 of the thread, and in 12 (!) out if the 37 pages of the same thread - have just been deleted on grounds of "bickering".

    Yes. Telling people to read actual threads instead of abusing them as service repositories, now constitutes bickering.

    I certainly am not considering answering questions anymore - if they get repeated every second page within a topic - and the forum moderation is still considering censoring that this is pretty much the business model of gbatemp these days.

    Let people be exploited by others for free. Its not information sharing thats at stake here - because the information is there, its just, that most people don't care to look for it, before filing another service request.

    And again "bickering" is a fake excuse at this point. Lets get honest.

    Also, I have yet to see one of those fabled moderators in the daily interactions within these community. Its like they are representing the business case for gbatemp, and not much else.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 22, 2018
  14. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    John Oliver did a piece about Facebook last week, that mainly focused on their international activities, and thereby doesnt represent an extensive overview - but hey, better than nothing.


    But you are using Whatsapp and Instagram? Both owned by facebook.

    One of the Whatsapp founders finally spoke out about why the founders left over a disagreement, after they have been bought:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyo...efacebook-and-why-he-left-850-million-behind/

    This comes in the wake of instagrams founders being let go as well:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/opinion/instagram-facebook.html

    In other news, still no one cares.
     
  15. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Embrace yourself

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    You know I actually read the posts before I reported them. Reading through the vast majority of your posts that I've read were not actually helpful, they were just you being like, "WOW! Look at this self-entitled Millennial!" then a wall of text completely belittling the user for asking a question. You weren't helping the user, you were being a self-righteous dick to the user for asking a question.
    You are painting yourself as a victim, when in reality you are just a complete asshole.
     
    Last edited by Lilith Valentine, Sep 30, 2018
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  16. PanTheFaun

    PanTheFaun The Uninspired Artist

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    Why is this even a thread? People are allowed to do what they want to do.
    End of discussion.
     
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  17. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    As a showcase how to sideline necessary societal arguments, I suppose.

    Also, the critical argument in the initial posting was meant to be provocative - but also helpful. I'm sorry that it wasn't received this way.

    Censoring the argument, that we are often not dealing with "questions" (trying to understand concepts) necessarily, but with service demands (make problem go away ) - that hit this forum by the dozens (the same 'question' being asked 12 times in a 25 page thread, or 50 times over three months, ...) - also doesnt solve the underlying issue.

    Making people think about collective behavior, and that "always act supportive and helpful", can also lead to abusive tendencies, is important as well. Its part of the social makeup of cultures.

    There are always people who start bickering, when they perceive a structural issue, thats actively overlooked and not addressed in any way. And there are always people that will proclaim "if we could just get rid of the instigators" - all our problems will be solved.

    Theres nothing out of the ordinary about it.

    I challenge anyone to bring the issue of repeat social contract abuse (asking and answering the same question 12 times in a 25 page thread, asking the same question 50 times in one forum over the span of 3 months -- saying thanks, and never being seen in in this "community" ever again) in front of a generation whose online habits have been formed by interactions where no counterargument would even be able to stand for two days. And moderation was never anything beyond actual censorship. Because it was faster, even cleaner, and so much more economical.

    As I said in the original thread - the only coping mechanisms you'll encounter on social media these days are character assassination based on purely emotional grounds and bubble forming. ("We really hate people thinking differently. We perceive our differences to be unsurmountable. It gives us identity.")

    Not once - has anyone in here actually considered, that having the same threads with the same 'service related' questions (essentially requests for micro customized FAQs) popping up in here for months, is an actual issue that we have to talk about to even attempt to solve.

    If we can't touch on the mindset that produces it, because people wont tolerate it if you depict them in a certain fashion (*hrm*) so be it. Flaming s/o can be used to garner attention. But it should never be used to drive out a differing opinion, or attempt to end an argument.

    Also - actually reading my opinion, before attempting to get it removed, was very liberal of you. I'm actually impressed.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 30, 2018
  18. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    The essential 'conflict' here is that of a "third place" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place - you also might know it from Sonys marketing a few years ago - ;) ), and the increasing notion that - structurally - many companies would rather market themselves as such, but follow a different conceptual model. (a-social media sites, ...)

    The third place essentially is a an idealistic concept, where people choose to congregate, because they feel like belonging, and simply 'good' when they do. (Think the cafe in the 90s sitcom Friends. :) ) Its a place of discussion, where they are among equals, where they can voice opinions, and yes - where they tend to help each other.

    That conceptual model of an important societal place was taken by marketing in the 80s, and implemented for brands like Starbucks or Apple, who now offer a different version of that to brand loyal customers. Its all about the flair of actual community building - with none of the actual community.

    And here is the main point. When 'helping others out' whos main barrier of entry was 'owning a smartphone' and nothing else really (well, maybe also buying a certain product - or "thinking of buying" - in which case they ought to be pampered especially well), and this is seen as a very positive thing (because we are talking about ad economies), becomes the main purpose of a "community" - and is universally accepted as the main reason, for why people attend, and the main purpose thats expected of it ('You haven't even been very helpful, at all...') the purpose changed from "third place" to "business venture".

    Lets put it that way. If peoples role in here has become 'non payed helpers of others' and not a meeting or gathering place of likeminded folks, enjoyment amongst the 'expected unpaid helpers' will plummet. It simply looses the function of said 'third place'. Which is first and foremost a social function, not an economic one. No one visits this forum, because in here they get to work for others.

    If your 'social networking platform' starts to feel, like it is mostly economically motivated ('that networker from highschool tried to connect with for the third time...'), the interesting people tend to move away, because for them it has lost the social function it has delivered to them.

    That said, most people often dont notice, because they might be attending for the notoriaty, or because they want a question answered, or simply - because they think that their posting scores are what matters most (hierarchy). It still might be the place, where developers announce products, but to talk to peers most of them have resorted to far more controlled channels (discords, ...).

    From my perspective - it has become hard, to even follow the scene, because regardless of subforum, there is a constant barrage of 'I have a quick question', highjack attempts or threads, with constantly the same questions, and simply trying to ignore them becomes harder and harder, because the quality of answers has gotten lower and lower.

    Thats where the conflict comes in.

    In an actual 'third place' this is an issue, because its a dysfunctional culture.

    In a 'mockup third place' where moderators may only drop by once in a while, because something got flagged which is seen 'offensive', the intended goal is mass satisfaction - and if people want their service requests filled - this becomes the new primary goal the structure gets targeted around. Again, ad economies.



    Now, with facebook and other social media platforms always having intentionally blurred the difference between a friend and a "brand worker", peoples expectations about who's responsible for "service" also have altered, so have their notions of what constitutes a "friend" ('I prime subbed my favorite twit streamer today! He mentioned my name and was so greatful.'). ;) But then the notion was always to capture that concept of a "third place", so you cant really blame them.

    Just dont conflate the two.

    If something is a genuine community, we have the responsibility to talk about aspects that are going wrong within it.
    If something is just a trendy front for people with smartphones to get 'help services', expect everyone to judge you on your 'helpfulness to others' as a first reaction.

    The difference between mock communities and actual ones is stark. And yet most people still tend to overlook it. Its part of acting PC, I suppose.. (Also brand loyal individuals, really love their brands - its an identity thing.. ;) )
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 30, 2018
  19. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Here is one such 'service request' i remember from yesterday.

    The proposed 'question' basically was:

    "I want to play current games on my Switch, and also pirate, but if I do Nintendo might ban me. So if I dont go online while pirating, and restore a nand backup before I do - will I still get banned."

    After no proper response, the stakes were raised:

    "I really hope an expert with deep knowledge of the hardware can answer my question."

    If we take this as a blueprint of what we should see gbatemp as being famous for, let me ask you one thing.

    What community on earth - would help/deal with this customer?

    He wants to pirate, but not suffer anti piracy measures.
    He wants the benefits of staying on lower firmware - but also play newer games.
    He wants to downgrade, but also be ensured, that Nintendo cant catch it.

    Those two things:

    - I want to pirate and

    - I want to use Nintendos online services while playing current games


    are about as mutually exclusive (contrary, two sides of a coin), as they can be. (Its the thing with always online and DRM, maybe you have heard about it...) But in our casual conversation - we are supposed to "stick to his request" and "help him with his problem" - and not talk about the ramifications around it. Also - please deliver him a "high level expert", because he asked, and really wants to pirate without consequences.

    Thats community right? Any hobbyist establishment would help that guy. Right?

    I mention this, because that was the last time, I actually insisted that someone should look at the bigger picture, and not outsource problem solving or risk to a "community". Which I just got called out for.

    Context, you know... And yet, I gave him the actual answer he was looking for. Together with a talk about risk assessment, complex systems, and the thing about not being able to read Nintendo source code. Especially server side.

    But if I really could have just stuck to helpful 'personalized FAQ', the whole thing would have been so much better. Really?1? Context, you know...

    (This being a futile attempt of not getting character assassinated - at least for once. You know - sometimes its the minor victorys that count. ;) )
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 30, 2018
  20. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Embrace yourself

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    Even if you were being personally censored by the staff (which you aren't,) that's something you agreed to. You agreed that the staff have the right to delete your posts and equally you agreed to several rules that you actually have violated. Using "Millennial" in the manor that you have been doing so is a violation of the rules as it attacking a person based on their age. Equally you are violating the rules right now, staff action is up for debate. Your entire notion about being "censored" is eternally self-induced by your own actions. I actually do read your entire posts before replying, I just choose not to make a wall of text because the vast majority of your posts are just personal rants. I am not here to change your opinion, just address the issues that part of your opinion.
     
    Last edited by Lilith Valentine, Sep 30, 2018
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