Hacking 3DS Custom Code Execution?

[DinohScene]

The Geohot/fail0verflow lawsuit is another excuse I take exception with. Geohot had a massive ego, for him the world had to know that he was the one to blow the PS3 wide open (even though it was fail0verflow who did all the legwork). But what if he'd taken a train to the nearest city, sat in a McDonalds restaurant, registered an anonymous email address and an anonymous account on a PS3 hacking forum and uploaded all the stuff without revealing a single thing about himself?

Finally, someone who thinks the same way as me about that twat!

It's such a shame, it seems like we could do a lot with the 3DS. 3D homebrew, 3D emulators, system tweaks, etc. There's always going to be a lot of pirates. Even I would be more selective about which games I purchased. But, alas, every time it seems like we're close, someone else tells us that what we're seeing will never see the light of day outside the elitiste hacking circles.

I think that a lot of homebrew enthusiasts bought the 3DS in the hope for 3D homebrew.
Hell even 3D homebrew games.
Personally, I also bought the 3DS in the hope for that.
Piracy on a 3DS for me just barely isn't worth it.
The games I'm interested in are only a few and will likely not be more then a few.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

This video has been removed by the user.


Looks like I missed the fun

 

[Rinnux]

OH MY GOSH PEOPLE GET OVER IT!!!....... It's not like he posted a video where he had a custom firmware, emulators, roms loading from the sd card, and all that amazing stuff we want. He was showing that homebrew can be done. It was simply to show people that homebrew is possible and will for sure be released some day. Now stop your complaining. It's because of people that push away talented devs that we can't have anything nice. Just shut up and enjoy the video and the fact that progress is being made.....

 

[VMM]

OH MY GOSH PEOPLE GET OVER IT!!!....... It's not like he posted a video where he had a custom firmware, emulators, roms loading from the sd card, and all that amazing stuff we want. He was showing that homebrew can be done. It was simply to show people that homebrew is possible and will for sure be released some day. Now stop your complaining. It's because of people that push away talented devs that we can't have anything nice. Just shut up and enjoy the video and the fact that progress is being made.....

If he have already released his work,
people could already been working in a custom firmware, emulators and roms loading from the SD card.

much is the progress worth if it never gets released? Nothing, since no one will benefit from it, except the author and few people he chooses to share his work with.

I understand that the author of this exploit is afraid of lawsuits and everything, but releasing a video about this, then deleting the video and sending a big
fuck you to every homebrew enthulsiast, what do you expect people to do?
Send flowers to him and beg on their knees so he releases the exploit?

If he wasn't willing to share his work, and wasn't even trying to show his work to the public, why then did he post on youtube his video?
If he's intentions were just as him said, he could have done things in a way better and without making so much fuss over nothing.

 

[Rinnux]

-snip- .

He posted the video as a proof of concept. Anybody has access to the decrypted launcher.dat file. He even said he didn't have a ram dump setup. So we already have the tools we need for homebrew. We just need people to develop libs and dig into the 3ds to see how it ticks. Just be patient.

 

[VMM]

He posted the video as a proof of concept. Anybody has access to the decrypted launcher.dat file. He even said he didn't have a ram dump setup. So we already have the tools we need for homebrew. We just need people to develop libs and dig into the 3ds to see how it ticks. Just be patient.

I understand what you say but he could be the one to start the whole 3DS hacking scene, he has already done stuff no one have done similar,
and yet he refuses to share his code for no apparent reason.

That way it looks like he is just teasing 3DS users and showing off.
He doesn't want to share his codes? ok, but when someone makes a homebrew loader 3DS, and become someone important in the hacking scene,
I hope he remembers it could be him, and that he'll be forever forgotten

 

[Saturosias]

and yet he refuses to share his code for no apparent reason.

Yeah, good thing you can read, amirite?

 

[PercentSevenC]

for no apparent reason

I think he outlined his reasons pretty clearly.

Believe it or not, not everyone desires internet infamy, especially when it could lead to legal problems.

 

[luigi90210]

I think he outlined his reasons pretty clearly.

Believe it or not, not everyone desires internet infamy, especially when it could lead to legal problems.

I understand that the author of this exploit is afraid of lawsuits and everything, but releasing a video about this, then deleting the video and sending a big
fuck you to every homebrew enthulsiast, what do you expect people to do?.

why on earth does everyone think it is illegal to unlock and modify your game consoles?
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/dmcaexemps.pdf
for those that dont want to look through the entire document, read pages 90-150(i think it ends a bit after that but you will get the jist of what is legal in the first 5 -6 pages) and for those that said TLDR, unlocking/ hacking/ modifying your personal owned system, whether it is a video game console, a dvd, cd, smartphone, ect. is legal and it not infringing on any of the manufacturer copyrights regarding the drm because it is fair use

while that in and of itself hardly makes a use fair, it certainly does not suggest that the use is unfair. Apple’s observation that the use is not transformative is accurate, but all that means is that one of the favored types of use (albeit an increasingly important one) is not present here; it hardly disqualifies the use from being fair. The fact that a jailbroken OS might be used to play pirated content hardly makes the purpose and character of the use in question here, jailbreaking “accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of [software] applications,” a disfavored use, and it certainly doesn’t make that activity commercial.

as long as you are not advertising that you can pirate games with the unlocked OS, it is fair use regardless if piracy is enabled with the unlocked system or not, sony ended up dropping the case against Geohotz and even though overflow's case is still in mediation, if it does go to court, overflow will win the case seeing as it is considered as fair use under the DMCA act

the jailbreaking lawsuit and a lawsuit back in the day when someone reversed engineered Sega's code and created their own game(can someone say homebrew game lol), will help gain ground against manufactures attempting to sue someone who modified their console and bypassed their DRM(which again is legal)

all this fear of being sued is stupid and if someone will not release it because of this, than imho, they have no significant work to show anyways

EDIT
here is a little lesson on fair use as well

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

[IMRAN_PETER]

Man, I was pretty excited after I saw the Demo illustration(several times to clarify if its real or not and was sure it was real...!!!) and hoping something great is coming soon....

 

[xyzmanas]

this thread should be closed now, as the video is itself removed. No point in discussing anything overhere @MODS

 

[luigi90210]

this thread should be closed now, as the video is itself removed. No point in discussing anything overhere @MODS

For those who missed it.

 

[ShizZy]

this thread should be closed now, as the video is itself removed. No point in discussing anything overhere @MODS

Indeed. Realistically... with the Gateway exploit known, the "launcher.dat" file having been decrypted, and the various other information available... the achievements shown in this video really aren't far out of reach anymore (as they were a few months ago). There will be plenty more people in the coming weeks/months with the skills to put these pieces together, I'm sure we'll see more.

 

[VMM]

why on earth does everyone think it is illegal to unlock and modify your game consoles?
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/dmcaexemps.pdf
for those that dont want to look through the entire document, read pages 90-150(i think it ends a bit after that but you will get the jist of what is legal in the first 5 -6 pages) and for those that said TLDR, unlocking/ hacking/ modifying your personal owned system, whether it is a video game console, a dvd, cd, smartphone, ect. is legal and it not infringing on any of the manufacturer copyrights regarding the drm because it is fair use


as long as you are not advertising that you can pirate games with the unlocked OS, it is fair use regardless if piracy is enabled with the unlocked system or not, sony ended up dropping the case against Geohotz and even though overflow's case is still in mediation, if it does go to court, overflow will win the case seeing as it is considered as fair use under the DMCA act

the jailbreaking lawsuit and a lawsuit back in the day when someone reversed engineered Sega's code and created their own game(can someone say homebrew game lol), will help gain ground against manufactures attempting to sue someone who modified their console and bypassed their DRM(which again is legal)

all this fear of being sued is stupid and if someone will not release it because of this, than imho, they have no significant work to show anyways

EDIT
here is a little lesson on fair use as well

I think this enlight things a bit.
People, myself included, who do not have much knowledge about law or international agreements,
tend to fear for the illegality in their acts, because that could mean severe consequences(prison, lawsuits etc).

Now that you proved there is no illegality in releasing exploits, we can turn down this page,
and the main, maybe only, reason, for the author of the exploit, not releasing it,
is gone.
I see no problem in releasing the exploit now, a lot of people would appreciate it.
I hope the author of the exploit take what you posted in consideration.

 

[luigi90210]

I think this enlight things a bit.
People, myself included, who do not have much knowledge about law or international agreements,
tend to fear for the illegality in their acts, because that could mean severe consequences(prison, lawsuits etc).

Now that you proved there is no illegality in releasing exploits, we can turn down this page,
and the main, maybe only, reason, for the author of the exploit, not releasing it,
is gone.
I see no problem in releasing the exploit now, a lot of people would appreciate it.
I hope the author of the exploit take what you posted in consideration.

we can only hope though, a lot of my post and research came from just logical thinking, jailbreaking an iphone does enable piracy, and in fact cydia has pirated apps on their store but it was still considered fair use by the justice system, why would it be any difference with a smartphone and a game console?(rhetorical question, just explaining my logic)

at the end of the day, its all similar devices, they both use CPUs, the both have ram, they both have internal storage(in forms of NAND and internal flash storage), only difference is name, design, and function

 

[PercentSevenC]

snip

You might want to read up on the DMCA and case law before talking about fair use. Hint: that defense isn't going to work in this case. The jailbreaking exemption applies ONLY to cellphones, not game consoles, or tablets, or anything else. This was pretty firmly established in a case just last year. geohot's case never went to trial, true, but that's because he settled out of court with Sony, not because they didn't have a case against him. And life wasn't exactly pleasant for him in the meantime, either. Even if fair use were a legitimate defense (which it isn't), if it had gone to trial, geohot would still have been crushed because Sony has several orders of magnitude more money to spend on lawyers. See also Lik Sang.

If you want to gamble with your future by making and releasing a crack, then great, more power to you. Chances are good they won't bother prosecuting you (especially over something as relatively trivial as what was shown in the video). But don't blame others for not wanting to take the risk, because if a big corporation like Nintendo decides they don't like you, they are more than capable of making your life hell.

 

[luigi90210]

You might want to read up on the DMCA and case law before talking about fair use. Hint: that defense isn't going to work in this case. The jailbreaking exemption applies ONLY to cellphones, not game consoles, or tablets, or anything else. This was pretty firmly established in a case just last year. geohot's case never went to trial, true, but that's because he settled out of court with Sony, not because they didn't have a case against him. And life wasn't exactly pleasant for him in the meantime, either. Even if fair use were a legitimate defense (which it isn't), if it had gone to trial, geohot would still have been crushed because Sony has several orders of magnitude more money to spend on lawyers. See also Lik Sang.

If you want to gamble with your future by making and releasing a crack, then great, more power to you. Chances are good they won't bother prosecuting you (especially over something as relatively trivial as what was shown in the video). But don't blame others for not wanting to take the risk, because if a big corporation like Nintendo decides they don't like you, they are more than capable of making your life hell.

if you have read through the entire ruling, you would have read that the exemptions apply to all computers, video games, DVDs, CDs, ect.
Geohotz would have won his case if it went to court because as supported in the sega lawsuit, reverse engineering is considered fair use(which is what he did when he found the keys), and as in the iphone case(said by the judge iirc) once you buy something, it is yours to do freely as you with as long as it is within the confines of the law(IE you can modify your xbox to play backups, but if you start illegally downloading games, uploading your game rips, ect. you will get in trouble) or something along those lines

im not going to look up this next case im sighting but there was a local californian who was arrested and tried for piracy when he modified peoples xbox 360s to play back up games, iirc he won the case against MS because he did nothing wrong, all he did was offer a service in which he installed a modification for people to let them play back up copies of their games and he was out of control if the end user decided to start pirating(he did get charged with doing business without a license and tax fraud though but that was because he did business illegallly, illegally meaning he wasnt licensed to do business in the state of california)

EDIT
it is actually the same reason why a RGH xbox 360 is legal, the same reason why a Jtaged xbox 360 is legal, and the same reason why changing your computer's operating system is in fact legal

if these laws didnt exist, manufactures would force you into their rules and not give a crap about what you think
if you think computer, cellphone manufactures, game console manufactures and software engineers wouldnt want to lock people into what they want, you are so wrong, they are all about money, and legally if they could lock you into using their software so they can charge you for updates, prevent you from updating, force you to buy better devices ect. they would do it in a heart beat

 

[PercentSevenC]

if you have read through the entire ruling, you would have read that the exemptions apply to all computers, video games, DVDs, CDs, ect.
Geohotz would have won his case if it went to court because as supported in the sega lawsuit, reverse engineering is considered fair use(which is what he did when he found the keys), and as in the iphone case(said by the judge iirc) once you buy something, it is yours to do freely as you with as long as it is within the confines of the law(IE you can modify your xbox to play backups, but if you start illegally downloading games, uploading your game rips, ect. you will get in trouble) or something along those lines

im not going to look up this next case im sighting but there was a local californian who was arrested and tried for piracy when he modified peoples xbox 360s to play back up games, iirc he won the case against MS because he did nothing wrong, all he did was offer a service in which he installed a modification for people to let them play back up copies of their games and he was out of control if the end user decided to start pirating(he did get charged with doing business without a license and tax fraud though but that was because he did business illegallly, illegally meaning he wasnt licensed to do business in the state of california)

EDIT
it is actually the same reason why a RGH xbox 360 is legal, the same reason why a Jtaged xbox 360 is legal, and the same reason why changing your computer's operating system is in fact legal

if these laws didnt exist, manufactures would force you into their rules and not give a crap about what you think
if you think computer, cellphone manufactures, game console manufactures and software engineers wouldnt want to lock people into what they want, you are so wrong, they are all about money, and legally if they could lock you into using their software so they can charge you for updates, prevent you from updating, force you to buy better devices ect. they would do it in a heart beat

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...l-under-dmca-for-smartphones-but-not-tablets/

If you don't like Ars Technica as a source, there are plenty of others. I'll leave it to you and Google. The phone jailbreaking exemption does NOT apply to game consoles or anything other than handheld phones. And even for phones, unlocking them for use on other carriers is now illegal as well. You can argue that it shouldn't be that way, and I would agree with you, but that's how it is.

"Fair use" is a nice concept, but it only applies in a very limited number of circumstances.

 

[luigi90210]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...l-under-dmca-for-smartphones-but-not-tablets/

If you don't like Ars Technica as a source, there are plenty of others. I'll leave it to you and Google. The phone jailbreaking exemption does NOT apply to game consoles or anything other than handheld phones. And even for phones, unlocking them for use on other carriers is now illegal as well. You can argue that it shouldn't be that way, and I would agree with you, but that's how it is.

"Fair use" is a nice concept, but it only applies in a very limited number of circumstances.

you're going to have to post something a bit more official(by official i mean a legal US document and not some journalist) than a news article, so far i have found nothing about this regarding modifying electronic devices

there are documents the unlocking your phone without carrier permission but nothing i have found specifically states that modifying a console, computer, tablet, ect. is not allowed and modifying a cellphone is

EDIT

What they attempt to tie you to is the piracy behind the software modifications, not to bypassing security itself

yes DCMA says it is illegal to bypass security(in the sense that you can not crack and pirate windows with licensing cracks), but it is not illegal to bypass software security placed to restrict usage on your personal device

 

[PercentSevenC]

you're going to have to post something a bit more official(by official i mean a legal US document and not some journalist) than a news article, so far i have found nothing about this regarding modifying electronic devices

there are documents the unlocking your phone without carrier permission but nothing i have found specifically states that modifying a console, computer, tablet, ect. is not allowed and modifying a cellphone is

Okay.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2012-26308.pdf

It's exactly the same thing Ars Technica cites, so I don't see what the problem was, but whatever.

Read the DMCA sometime. If it circumvents copy protection it's illegal unless an exemption has been granted, which for game consoles, it hasn't, as evidenced by the Library of Congress ruling. See 4B:

Because the Register determined that the evidentiary record failed to support a finding that the inability to circumvent access controls on video game consoles has, or over the course of the next three years likely would have, a substantial adverse impact on the ability to make noninfringing uses, the Register declined to recommend the proposed class.