Anti-RetroArch sentiment seems to be growing

subcon959

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I wasn't aware of any controversy regarding the popular emulation frontend, but lately I'm seeing a lot of negativity around the net.

Does anyone have any deeper insight into what is causing this? I see people asking for good alternatives as they can no longer support the abusive authors. Huh?

Is it somehow related to the recent tragedy with Near? I thought that was something to do with Kiwi Farms.
 
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Tom Bombadildo

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They're probably just referring to this:


It's just people bringing up age old shit from a decade ago and acting like that was a direct cause to what happened so therefore RetroArch=bad.
 

Ryccardo

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Haven't heard of any drama, the reason I despise retrofail is intrinsic in their goal (port emulators and a common frontend to any* platform) whose flip side is less tuning and minimum common denominator (compare to VBA-GX on Wii, which fully implements Wii features like supporting the wiimote camera as solar sensor, etc)

* also, they started as a compilation of emulators for PS3 - guess what's one of the platforms on which it's most broken, a fair number of other ones listed on the official website also have their issues or are missing a build entirely
 

subcon959

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After I posted I tried to find out more stuff (I wish I hadn't) and found a litany of chat logs showing anti-trans rants by twinaphex against byuu (Near's previous alias?). There also seems to be recent discussions about general abuse towards other emu devs. I don't really want to dig any further as it seems like it would be impossible to get to the truth.

Edit: The only reason I was interested is because I follow MVG/lantus360 and he recently voiced some concerns about it.
 
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ShadowOne333

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OP:
Is because the head of Libretro has been involved into some drama with other developers during its existence, byuu was one iirc, there has been others as well who have had their clashes with Twinaphex and other devs over time.

The whole "anti-Retroarch" crap I keep seeing over Twatter is because they are linking that drama directly to byuu's death, and that apparently some of the people in RA were kinda harsh on people who they had issues with.
It's worth noting that the whole ordeal is multiple years old, for the record (which people on Twitter just love to bring Old-Testament age shit as current events), and given the amount of letters and emails leaked from byuu's contacts, it seems the most tiresome bullying for him came directly from both online and offline harrassment to the point of stalking IRL.

Aside from that, really just don't pay attention to Twatter of all places.
It's the world's most stupid and worst place to take something into consideration from, more so how people like to bitch, moan and echo their crap all over the place, and since that kind of people are the most vocal, they create a false impression of "multitude" when in reality is just an obnoxious group of people trying to make their tantrums stick to get their candy and nothing else.

My word of advice and to others who are tired of similar things, don't even bother reading that. Do as I do, avoid going there as often and/or block/mute all instances for that kind of people (or even mute certain words altogether, that way tweets with certain words won't show up in your feed).
Serves you much more to clean Twitter of the idiocy that is the current state of the social media.
 
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hippy dave

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After I posted I tried to find out more stuff (I wish I hadn't) and found a litany of chat logs showing anti-trans rants by twinaphex against byuu (Near's previous alias?).
I'm assuming twinaphex is a retroarch person? How old are these rants? It's always shitty, but there's got to be room for people to improve their behaviour over time.
 
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subcon959

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I'm assuming twinaphex is a retroarch person? How old are these rants? It's always shitty, but there's got to be room for people to improve their behaviour over time.
I can't remember now but it was the Dolphin dev that posted them as there was also quite a lot of abuse directed towards that team.

@ShadowOne333 I agree that Twitter can be a horrible place but I find it useful to get the latest news about certain projects there sometimes.
 

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I just really dislike Retroarch out of preference
I hate the X/Cross style UI and the way the settings are presented can be extremely confusing
Makes things like EmuVR an incredible pain in the ass
I even prefer the way RPCS3 is set up over that

But I mean that's the only thing I can say for me- it's preference
Retroarch isn't bad though
 

osaka35

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I think the retroarch frontend sucks. I prefer just using standalone emulators.
I just really dislike Retroarch out of preference
I hate the X/Cross style UI and the way the settings are presented can be extremely confusing
Makes things like EmuVR an incredible pain in the ass
I even prefer the way RPCS3 is set up over that

But I mean that's the only thing I can say for me- it's preference
Retroarch isn't bad though
I agree with these folk.

people say it's a "big time investement, but then it works great after that initial setup", but i've never had a smooth operation. Works "great" under only certain conditions after hours of work, then next time I go to open it up, nothing but terrible. And that's after learning the poorly design UI. Love the concept, hate the implementation.

It feels like something that came out this year where the UI was rushed to meet a deadline for release. I'm told it's because "they're linux people and linux people don't understand much about universal design principles". seems offensive to linux users tbh.

As far as the team themselves, no clue. First I'm hearing about it.
 
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FAST6191

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Can't speak much to the current stuff, and care even less, but I will also note their licensing and general approach to code openness is rather byzantine (possibly by necessity as many of the "cores" are emulators that were built before GPL got big or purposely eschewed it*) which can get very tricky to navigate. This served to rub quite a few the wrong way and start things off badly, and continue it badly too.
There are some egos involved on every side as well but I do also have to ask the question many times of "what has retroarch ever done for us" and the answer is usually not a great deal -- at best some previously well known emulator devs made a plugin or two for effectively the original emulator (now called a core if we are to adopt such parlances), and they had some fun with predictive input. As far as making emulation more efficient, more accurate, making a frontend that those wanting a debugging emulator can play with (debuggers for non Nintendo stuff tends to be a bit wanting, and if you compare it to PC... oh dear), harmonising savestates and directories (especially for older efforts that might be pre the big push to have everything in my documents rather than program files/operating directory)... yeah not the most on that front.

*not necessarily related but MAME (MESS was a somewhat different thing but I will count it in this) for the longest time was not GPL and purposely did things to frustrate various cabinet makers (ostensibly for profit types but it caught others in crossfire). Similar problems and friction with retroarch, ports thereof, spinoffs and remixes has also happened (the Switch stuff but one thing here, though that is its own can of worms full of misunderstandings, hurt feelings, misdirections, dramas and traumas).

From where I sit then individual emulators still provide me with the best experience. A nice frontend would be nice, better yet a frontend that serves to allow me to have effectively the same debugger on every system without having to learn new ones, one that might also be pretty nice for ROM storage, and maybe blows through some of the cruft in older setups (though older setups maybe still representing the pinnacle of things), sorts controller fun... would be nice, and one that also served to advance the cause of emulation that might have stalled out in some places or otherwise fragmented into a million forks with different goals while it was at it, maybe also porting to various other operating systems and devices, would be golden. However seems to not be so pending that day I am probably in the utterly ambivalent camp.
 

Xzi

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*On Twitter.

Seems like a bunch of melodrama that has nothing to do with the program itself. I don't have much experience with RetroArch TBH, as I own all the Nintendo and Playstation home consoles anyway. That might change when Steam Deck comes along, assuming standalone emulators don't provide a vastly superior/more convenient experience on Linux.
 

the_randomizer

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*On Twitter.

Seems like a bunch of melodrama that has nothing to do with the program itself. I don't have much experience with RetroArch TBH, as I own all the Nintendo and Playstation home consoles anyway. That might change when Steam Deck comes along, assuming standalone emulators don't provide a vastly superior/more convenient experience on Linux.

There's no standalone emulators for Genesis Plus GX for example, or gPSP.

People that are hating on the RA team need to grow up and grow a f*cking pair and move on.
 
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godreborn

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I just really dislike Retroarch out of preference
I hate the X/Cross style UI and the way the settings are presented can be extremely confusing
Makes things like EmuVR an incredible pain in the ass
I even prefer the way RPCS3 is set up over that

But I mean that's the only thing I can say for me- it's preference
Retroarch isn't bad though
You can change that. I think that style is called "amped." I use the ozone/switch style on the nes, snes, genesis, and psx mini/classics. It's much easier to manage, at least for me.
 
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smf

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retroarch continues to make $$$ out of mostly other peoples work and pissing over licenses.

Whether you care about that, or their other bad behavior is up to you. I certainly won't lose any sleep either way.

https://retroarchleaks.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/what-happens-with-the-other-650/

They've got a serious case of persecution complex, when they haven't worked out that they are the bad guys.
 
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ChronoTrig

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I try to not look at all the bs behind the scenes of a product and just use the product for its intention. Retroarch works great on my Xbox Series X. Used it previously on my Switch as well.
 

osaka35

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retroarch continues to make $$$ out of mostly other peoples work and pissing over licenses.

Whether you care about that, or their other bad behavior is up to you. I certainly won't lose any sleep either way.

https://retroarchleaks.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/what-happens-with-the-other-650/

They've got a serious case of persecution complex, when they haven't worked out that they are the bad guys.
So they have a bad case of doraemon (What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine)? big ball of yikes.

For those not wanting to read the link, part of it seems to be not caring some cores are non-commercial and still using those cores when asking for money/earning money off of this. I wonder how much of that is how it appears.

Do you know, out of curiosity, what are all the avenues they make money? and how much do you think they make regularly? Do they work on this project full-time? I've never bothered to think about it before.
 
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