Homebrew blargSnes -- SNES emulator for the 3DS (WIP)

the_randomizer · Feb 13, 2015

StapleButter said:
Hey guys, calm down, don't turn this thread into a flamewar please

The Megadrive game remakes for the 3DS (or whatever that was) are adapted for 3D, and run in an emulator for a console that is basically a 3D-enabled Megadrive.

blargSNES emulates the original SNES, and runs the original games. They lack any kind of 3D information.

As for the 'play on your phone' part: unless you own one of those funky half-joypad half-phone things, the gameplay experience on a phone is vastly inferior, no matter how stable your emulator is. Have you ever tried playing SMW with the touchscreen controls? It's just impossible. Some games are playable, but for most of them, it's shit.

Oh and you also get Android and its commercial stench. They make you pay for their emulator or slap ads on your gameplay or whatever bullshit that homebrew emulators are free of.

Not the way I get emulator apps for Android

I get all mine ad free. But anyways, you're right, my apologies

M2 has their ways of doing Megadrive emulation, but for Snes, BlargSnes is definitely an awesome emulator.

DiscostewSM · Feb 13, 2015

I certainly would like to know how M2 is doing these retro games. Not their implementation of 3D, but graphically maintaining the look. Did they convert all the graphics to 3DS formats and not allow them to change color on the palette level, or are they using the originals with palettes and doing something like what was proposed before (like bump-mapping)? I mean, something is being done. Even Shovel Knight utilizes some form of palette capabilities, right?I doubt they made a separate image for each color frame in that game.

Arisotura · Feb 13, 2015

DiscostewSM said:
Even Shovel Knight utilizes some form of palette capabilities, right?I doubt they made a separate image for each color frame in that game.

That's what they did (the separate images).

The bumpmapping shit is a giant hack, and perhaps the error margin is too large for something like that to even work at all. And it's still only a theory.

bobmcjr · Feb 13, 2015

the_randomizer said:
Not the way I get emulator apps for Android I get all mine ad free.

The vast majority of Android emulators with ads in them are ripoffs of some base emulator that was open source at some point and aren't worth using, plus they violate GPL left and right (PPSSPP's Google Play build being an exception, and the git builds don't have ads). Most are clones of either nds4droid (desmume), psx4droid, Mupen64plus AE, or any of the *oid emulators (gameboid, snesoid etc).
In my opinion the only notable proprietary ones worth noting are ePSXe, DraStic, MyBoy/MyOldBoy, and Marat Fayzullin's various emulators (iNES, VGB, VGBA, etc). Even the *.emu emulators/Snes9x EX are open source and can be compiled freely.

WeedZ · Feb 13, 2015

StapleButter said:
Hey guys, calm down, don't turn this thread into a flamewar please

The Megadrive game remakes for the 3DS (or whatever that was) are adapted for 3D, and run in an emulator for a console that is basically a 3D-enabled Megadrive.

blargSNES emulates the original SNES, and runs the original games. They lack any kind of 3D information.

As for the 'play on your phone' part: unless you own one of those funky half-joypad half-phone things, the gameplay experience on a phone is vastly inferior, no matter how stable your emulator is. Have you ever tried playing SMW with the touchscreen controls? It's just impossible. Some games are playable, but for most of them, it's shit.

Oh and you also get Android and its commercial stench. They make you pay for their emulator or slap ads on your gameplay or whatever bullshit that homebrew emulators are free of.

i get it. i thought it would be easier then all that. and i'm not saying your guys emulator is useless. i've actually been enjoying it alot

i wasnt arguing the possibility or ease of 3d either. Shadow just got to me for a sec there and not even with his opinion really. you guys saying youre not going to do something, for whatever reason, would be respected regardless. its your work.

ShadowOne333 said:
I thought I was talking to Staple?
Anyway, I will tell you in one word why I don't play them in other devices:
CONVENIENCE.
Having most of the old school Nintendo games in the 3DS is convenient and handy.

Basically what you are saying is that if the emu doesn't have 3D, then it's not worth it in a 3DS.
That's just... naive. Then 90% of the Homebrew apps for the 3DS shouldn't exist at all.

Not because you have the 3D option means that it should be a must from the get go.
Stability and compatibility comes first, I never said I didn't want 3D, just that it is low in the priority list.

What do you prefer? A SNES emu that plays most of the Snes library in 2D with good stability or a Snes emu that can only play like 5 or so games in 3D?
You are obviously missing the point here.

And I'm aware of the BG sprites and foreground sprites, they could be rendered differently, but since my bet goes into saying that all the experience you have from it is from just fucking around with a PC emulator, then you're at loss.

Each game renders its graphics differently.
Someone already gave a clear example with Earthbound.

Each game would require a specific set of code to render a proper 3D image to the screen with sprite layers.
And the 3D Classic games where made from scratch to accomodate them to the 3D aspect, if not the we would have an entire library of 3D classics and not just 5 or so.

Edit:
Staple and Stew already explained it as well.

Of course they did. Shadow, sorry i lost my cool. but i could say the same thing. "i thought i was talking to staple".
and this post is an example of why i was really irritated. what involvement do you have in this project? i get you have an opinion on it. but you so feverishly tried to convince staple of what he had already decided on his own, and now taking the time to explain "their" challenges and limitations. they can speak for themselves. i dont need a representative when i ask someone a question.

the_randomizer · Feb 13, 2015

bobmcjr said:
The vast majority of Android emulators with ads in them are ripoffs of some base emulator that was open source at some point and aren't worth using, plus they violate GPL left and right (PPSSPP's Google Play build being an exception, and the git builds don't have ads). Most are clones of either nds4droid (desmume), psx4droid, Mupen64plus AE, or any of the *oid emulators (gameboid, snesoid etc).
In my opinion the only notable proprietary ones worth noting are ePSXe, DraStic, MyBoy/MyOldBoy, and Marat Fayzullin's various emulators (iNES, VGB, VGBA, etc). Even the *.emu emulators/Snes9x EX are open source and can be compiled freely.

Already have all those emulators, ad-free of course, and they run great

Don't like MyBoy, GBA.emu runs fine

Anyways XD Sorry for the derailment, but they are getting better and BlargSnes is quite fantastic already.

VinsCool · Feb 13, 2015

Tried something today:

Plugged in my 3ds on my hifi amplifier system and OH GOD snes music is fantastic!

It is unbelievable that sound came from my 3ds 3.5 stereo jack out!

I had an eargasm with chrono trigger music in Dark Omen :wub:

the_randomizer · Feb 13, 2015

VinsCool said:
Tried something today:

Plugged in my 3ds on my hifi amplifier system and OH GOD snes music is fantastic!

It is unbelievable that sound came from my 3ds 3.5 stereo jack out!

I had an eargasm with chrono trigger music in Dark Omen

And you didn't record it? Tsk tsk

VinsCool · Feb 13, 2015

the_randomizer said:
And you didn't record it? Tsk tsk

I can't

DiscostewSM · Feb 13, 2015

StapleButter said:
That's what they did (the separate images).

The bumpmapping shit is a giant hack, and perhaps the error margin is too large for something like that to even work at all. And it's still only a theory.

Did they? I know for those systems that have programmable pixel shaders, they used 8-bit indexed textures for the graphics, and then used a full 32-bit color texture to represent the palette (which the pixel shader referred to). The 3DS of course doesn't have such shader capabilities, nor even paletted textures, so the idea of the lesser device going with a unique graphic frame for each color combo, including cycling and shifting color effects, just seems a bit odd.

WeedZ · Feb 13, 2015

DiscostewSM said:
If you're talking about the 3D Classics, it's because they were remade/altered for that, both emulator and game. BlargSNES is just an emulator attempting to play the unmodified games.

And no, it's not as simple as setting a different depth for each layer. Numerous games use multiple layers to construct environments as if they are one. They're not all like Super Mario World which has full segregation of layers. Even Mode 7, a layer that looks like it can represent depth and perspective, does not actually have anything regarding depth other than the priority against other layers. Plus, layers/modes can change mid-frame, so what may be from one scanline to another would not be seamless, even if it was meant to represent that. There's a lot more to this than what people think, and it's too much of a hassle to try to do it as-is, which is why many instead remake the game to do it.

would you guys be interested in exploring the possibility of a homebrew virtual console? if it would have to be handled on a per games basis, then maybe you, staple, or another developer might be able to do say, SMW 3d, or a Link to the Past 3d.

SpaceJump · Feb 14, 2015

I have a special request StapleButter:

Can you make a version of version 1.3, that automatically loads a specific SNES rom from SD card (like sd:/snes/auto.smc)? I want to make a blargSNES version, that automatically loads Super Metroid with Super Metroid banners, without it loading the rom select menu.

I always wanted Nintendo to release Super Metroid on DS or 3DS because it's one of my favorite games of all time, but I guess we have to take care of that ourselfs

Btw, you did a great job with blargSNES so far. I hope you'll find your motivation for it again some time. If not, that's fine too. It's not like you owe us anything.

MarkDarkness · Feb 16, 2015

WeedZ1985 said:
would you guys be interested in exploring the possibility of a homebrew virtual console? if it would have to be handled on a per games basis, then maybe you, staple, or another developer might be able to do say, SMW 3d, or a Link to the Past 3d.

Look, you got me curious from all this talking. My question is: why bother? Why do you care so much about that? What people call 3D is a cheap eye trick created two centuries ago which is so purposless that it comes and goes in waves every once a while to be totally forgotten (it's thankfully gone already this time around). What do you find so exciting about playing a perfect game like SMW with a slight pop to the backgrounds?

2ndApex · Feb 16, 2015

Umihara Kawase seems to kind of work until it gets to the first level and everything freezes and the emulator explodes with "SPC TO MIRROR READ 44" messages.

Was it working in earlier versions or does it use some special chip not emulated yet?

xantoz · Feb 16, 2015

2ndApex said:
Umihara Kawase seems to kind of work until it gets to the first level and everything freezes and the emulator explodes with "SPC TO MIRROR READ 44" messages.

Was it working in earlier versions or does it use some special chip not emulated yet?

It was working playable but with bugs in a git version somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2.

I have a build of it if you want, but can't post it quite now.
If you wanna make your own look for my posts in this thread I think I stated before what git version it worked.

WeedZ · Feb 16, 2015

MarkDarkness said:
Look, you got me curious from all this talking. My question is: why bother? Why do you care so much about that? What people call 3D is a cheap eye trick created two centuries ago which is so purposless that it comes and goes in waves every once a while to be totally forgotten (it's thankfully gone already this time around). What do you find so exciting about playing a perfect game like SMW with a slight pop to the backgrounds?

Well if you want to get all philosophical. Video games are just a trick of visual stimulation coupled with hand eye cordination. Movies are just a trick of still images shown in quick procession. Music is just a trick of repetitive frequencies. Love is just a trick of dopamine and serotonin. So there is no point to anything and everything is a fad, one just out lasting the other. So why don't we all go kill ourselves?

Go carve a poem in your diary and stop pissin on my interrests emo kid

SLiV3R · Feb 16, 2015

The priority list atm imo:

1. Compatibility for games without Special chips.
2. Implementation of special chips
3. Overall performance = mostly speed and glitches
4. GUI. For example the ability to turn the 2nd screen black. Screen saver mode.

Arisotura · Feb 16, 2015

I thought about a Virtual Console type setup for a while. Could be fairly easy to do, but at the same time I wouldn't want to see blargSNES versions being distributed with ROMs.

So in the end, I'm not too sure about that.

Autobooting when there is only one ROM in the current directory could be an option, though.

Idaho · Feb 16, 2015

StapleButter said:
I thought about a Virtual Console type setup for a while. Could be fairly easy to do, but at the same time I wouldn't want to see blargSNES versions being distributed with ROMs.

So in the end, I'm not too sure about that.

Autobooting when there is only one ROM in the current directory could be an option, though.

Or maybe select a rom to autoboot through the list if wanted?

hippy dave · Feb 16, 2015

SLiV3R said:
The priority list atm imo:

1. Compatibility for Zelda

fixed.

Homebrew blargSnes -- SNES emulator for the 3DS (WIP)

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