Hacking Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii is out now.

damysteryman · Jun 10, 2013

Well, tried to rebuild ISO once more, with a different ISO tool this time, but same results... not sure what I am doing wrong...
I think I will call it a break for now, I am off to get some dinner!

Celice · Jun 10, 2013

damysteryman said:
Well, tried to rebuild ISO once more, with a different ISO tool this time, but same results... not sure what I am doing wrong...
I think I will call it a break for now, I am off to get some dinner!

Please let us know if you find anything. My brother would be very happy to be able to play this game.

I messaged the YouTube account of the hack to request a version my brother could play, but they didn't seem very positive, and it sounded more like they wanted to ignore the situation more than help out with a legitimate problem. This is the message:

Disabled brother cannot play Wii--Is there any way to play this via the Dolphin emulator?
My brother has Duchenne's Muscular Dystrophy, and is somewhat late in the process of dying. He cannot move anything but his fingers and parts of his head.

He uses a custom controller to use his computer, and we've been able to find ways for him to enjoy gaming even as his disease makes it more difficult, by using emulators. There is no way he can hold a wiimote or play a Wii without his custom controller, or any other system from the past two generations, but he's been lucky enough to have an emulator available that has allowed him to continue to enjoy great Nintendo games even to this day, withstanding the most recent Nintendo games (because no emulators have been developed).

He really loves playing SNES Mario hacks with me and my nieces, and I think this mod would be a great thing for him to play with us. Is there any legitimate reason why the game was not released as a patch for the ISO? We have a copy of the game lying around from when he used to be able to move his hands a little bit, but his muscles had died so much we haven't been able to use play it for a few years now.

Please message me back with any possibilities. For my brother, this game is being kept from him with the demand for using riivolution.

And this was the reply:

There is no way to play the game on Dolphin at this time.

If this is just a cheap way to ignore a serious problem (excluding long time Nintendo fans like my brother, who are disabled and have been alienated from their favorite developers because of gimmicky system controls they cannot physically use), then I don't think anyone involved with their decision could really be a good person at heart.

Rydian · Jun 10, 2013

To be fair, you didn't pay them for this or anything, they don't owe you shit.

damysteryman · Jun 10, 2013

Yeah, will do, if I figure out where I am going wrong first... my only real guess is that I am not addng the files to the correct directories or something...
I do plan on releasing a .ppf patch file if I do get it working though.

Making it a standard format like ISO just makes it easier for everybody

And yeah, they will provide support for their methods, but not really any others it seems, guess it depends on who is in charge of the account. Treeki is part of the Newer team, but he has been helping out by posting hints in this forum about ISO creation, but some of the other devs are not so supportive of anything that maybe COULD be used with piracy (such as said ISO), regardless of other reasons... but on the flipside, it's not really their job to go out of their way for a non-riivolution version either... hence us trying to make an ISO ourselves.

skawo96 · Jun 10, 2013

Bloody hell.

I don't buy the "disabled brother" story at all, and think it's just a cheap way to get the ISO and leak it, but EVEN IF it's true (and I'm sorry if it is)...

Do you not get the part that we're not gonna release the iso to anyone? That's the decision we've made, why on earth do you think we owe anyone anything.

And, sorry for giving such a 'go away' short response, but we get 8 or 9 of these messages a day, and you can't expect us to elaborate on why to every single one, especially when there are more pressing issues like crashes or bugs at hand.

misticknight · Jun 10, 2013

tried loading this but it wont work, riivolution doesnt even give me the option to "enable" or "disable" the patch, it just says "launch new super mario bros. wii". yes new, not newer. i checked my sdcard everything is set up in the right place.

Relys · Jun 10, 2013

skawo96 said:
And, sorry for giving such a 'go away' short response, but we get 8 or 9 of these messages a day, and you can't expect us to elaborate on why to every single one, especially when there are more pressing issues like crashes or bugs at hand.

When you release code to the public, you have to fulfill certain obligations to the community if you want to be a respected developer.

As a software engineer, I know that the majority of time for software development is for maintenance. If you choose not to release support for users who don't have a working dvd drive or are disabled, you are going to get more messages about that than bug fixs. Bugs don't matter if half of your user base can't even play your game.

Rydian · Jun 10, 2013

Relys said:
When you release code to the public, you have to fulfill certain obligations to the community if you want to be a respected developer.

Which is a sad state of affairs, really.

Make a song.
- Nobody expects you to make remixes or trims of it to fit their specific DJing (or Stepmania/ITG) needs. If somebody asks you can deny, and nobody will think you're a worse musical artist. In the same vein if somebody asks you for the samples and recordings, you can deny and nobody cares.
Digitally draw a picture.
- Nobody expects you to also release PSDs with the individual layers so they can easily extract the characters and/or background for use in a different fashion. If somebody asks, simply ignore them and nobody will think you're a worse artist. They will continue to enjoy your works like they already did.
Make some 3D art.
- You don't get people hounding you asking for the textures and models+riggings. If somebody wants them, you can just decline, and nobody cares. You're still making custom 3D art that people will enjoy.

But if you make some homebrew or a game hack for a video game system, you should expect to get hassled and for people to throw fits if you don't release the source and all the details.

And that's terrible.

Only in the homebrew scene have I ever seen people be so goddamned self-entitled.

Celice · Jun 10, 2013

skawo96 said:
Bloody hell.

I don't buy the "disabled brother" story at all, and think it's just a cheap way to get the ISO and leak it, but EVEN IF it's true (and I'm sorry if it is)...

Do you not get the part that we're not gonna release the iso to anyone? That's the decision we've made, why on earth do you think we owe anyone anything.

And, sorry for giving such a 'go away' short response, but we get 8 or 9 of these messages a day, and you can't expect us to elaborate on why to every single one, especially when there are more pressing issues like crashes or bugs at hand.

I have no problem linking you to his facebook and showing you photos of him if that would convince you otherwise. If you look at my threads on this forum, a majority of them are also ones created, over the past four or five years, asking about how to get certain games to be more compatible for him.

It's not a ploy, and it's hurtful to think that people in this world would be so quick to justify ignoring helping someone for that very reason. I don't have to live with that kind of personality, but you will.

We do not think the group owes anyone anything, and where you go that idea is what you need to confront, not myself or my brother.

As I said in the YouTube PM, it's not as if you couldn't release the edited files themselves, like the Mario Kart Wii mods associated with MrBean, where the user is responsible for inserting them into the game and getting everything running. This allows you to avoid sending out a precompiled ISO if that's the group's tick.

damysteryman said:
Yeah, will do, if I figure out where I am going wrong first... my only real guess is that I am not addng the files to the correct directories or something...
I do plan on releasing a .ppf patch file if I do get it working though.

Making it a standard format like ISO just makes it easier for everybody

And yeah, they will provide support for their methods, but not really any others it seems, guess it depends on who is in charge of the account. Treeki is part of the Newer team, but he has been helping out by posting hints in this forum about ISO creation, but some of the other devs are not so supportive of anything that maybe COULD be used with piracy (such as said ISO), regardless of other reasons... but on the flipside, it's not really their job to go out of their way for a non-riivolution version either... hence us trying to make an ISO ourselves.

Thanks for responding

I didn't know treeki was involved! I remember when that kid was 12 or 13 on acmlm, first getting a NSMB editor working. A lot of us were pretty astounded to have someone so young interested in romhacking like him. He was also pretty cool around the forums. I haven't heard of him in the past few years, other than being involved with the Reggie editor at some point... maybe I should get back in touch with him? It's been some years though

Relys · Jun 10, 2013

Rydian said:
Which is a sad state of affairs, really.

Make a song.

Nobody expects you to make remixes or trims of it to fit their specific DJing (or Stepmania/ITG) needs. If somebody asks you can deny, and nobody will think you're a worse musical artist. In the same vein if somebody asks you for the samples and recordings, you can deny and nobody cares.

Digitally draw a picture.

Nobody expects you to also release PSDs with the individual layers so they can easily extract the characters and/or background for use in a different fashion. If somebody asks, simply ignore them and nobody will think you're a worse artist. They will continue to enjoy your works like they already did.

Make some 3D art.

You don't get people hounding you asking for the textures and models+riggings. If somebody wants them, you can just decline, and nobody cares. You're still making custom 3D art that people will enjoy.

But if you make some homebrew or a game hack for a video game system, you should expect to get hassled and for people to throw fits if you don't release the source and all the details.

And that's terrible.

Only in the homebrew scene have I ever seen people be so goddamned self-entitled.

Well, it is trivial to reverse engineer music, pictures and 3d models. Code takes longer and is much harder (especially if it's obfuscated).

I agree that there is a abundance of self-entitlement in the community, especially for security exploits. But, I think this case is slightly different as the developers have stated that they have a fix for their software.

1. The developers want people to use their mod and praise them for their hard work and talent (and rightfully so).
2. They hold back support for USB loaders, even though they themselves have a working version.
3. They are putting on airs regarding piracy even though most of the people wanting to play their game legitimately have a burned out laser, and even though their patch probably contains code/assets from Nintendo.

Also, homebrew is a huge part of the open source community. There's an unwritten rule that developers are expected to release their source code, so others can learn and pass on knowledge.

SifJar · Jun 10, 2013

Relys said:
Well, it is trivial to reverse engineer music, pictures and 3d models. Code takes longer and is much harder (especially if it's obfuscated).

I agree that there is a abundance of self-entitlement in the community, especially for security exploits. But, I think this case is slightly different as the developers have stated that they have a fix for their software.

1. The developers want people to use their mod and praise them for their hard work and talent (and rightfully so).
2. They hold back support for USB loaders, even though they themselves have a working version.
3. They are putting on airs regarding piracy even though most of the people wanting to play their game legitimately have a burned out laser, and even though their patch probably contains code/assets from Nintendo.

Also, homebrew is a huge part of the open source community. There's an unwritten rule that developers are expected to release their source code, so others can learn and pass on knowledge.

1. While it may feed their egos and what-not, I doubt they're massively concerned over exactly how many people use it; it's not like they're paid for it and need a certain number of purchases to make it "worth it"; they did it for fun
2. They don't support piracy which probably accounts for ~90% of the use of USB Loaders. They themselves may have a working ISO version, but they also know that they themselves have purchased the game, they have absolutely no guarantee anyone else would if they released an ISO patch.
3. "most of the people" - if you actually believe that, I'm sorry to say you are very naive. Perhaps for a few that is a legitimate concern. But they're not losing anything by not being able to play this mod, so meh. For the majority, it is a case of they want to play their pirated copies with the mod. It's got nothing to do with the devs if some person has a burnt out laser; it's up to the individual to get it fixed if they want to make use of their disc drive.

As for devs being "expected to release their source code" - not by me. And they shouldn't be by anyone else. Unless they are using GPL code (or similarly licensed code), there is no reason to expect them to release their source code. If they choose to do so, fantastic. If not, no problem.

Relys · Jun 10, 2013

SifJar said:
As for devs being "expected to release their source code" - not by me. And they shouldn't be by anyone else. Unless they are using GPL code (or similarly licensed code), there is no reason to expect them to release their source code. If they choose to do so, fantastic. If not, no problem.

Having an ISO is still illegal even if you ripped it directly from your disk.

True, they aren't legally obligated to release their source code unless they are using GPL, MIT etc. But the community still expects them to. Behavior dictates expectations.

SifJar · Jun 10, 2013

Relys said:
Having an ISO is still illegal even if you ripped it directly from your disk.

True, they aren't legally obligated to release their source code unless they are using GPL, MIT etc. But the community still expects them to. Behavior dictates expectations.

Nonsense. Maybe in the US, but you have absolutely no proof the developers are in the US. Your laws don't apply elsewhere. You cannot categorically state it is illegal without full knowledge of the facts. Plus I doubt you're qualified to give legal advice anyway.

Besides that, I don't see any mention of law in my post. I don't understand why everyone seems to think that the only reason people oppose piracy is "because it's illegal", and therefore they should oppose anything else illegal. What a load of rubbish. People oppose piracy because it is wrong. It is not right to obtain content you have not paid for (be it movies, music or video games). That is why devs oppose piracy, not because of the law (generally speaking). There is nothing wrong with ripping a copy of your own game, even if it is "illegal". So that statement is inherently flawed, because you fail to see why people oppose piracy. [And no, I do not want to get into a discussion regarding the morality of piracy; if you try to engage me in one, I will not respond, so don't bother]

And what I was trying to say is the community should not expect them to. They don't owe the community anything. Don't be so entitled.

JoostinOnline · Jun 10, 2013

SifJar said:
Nonsense. Maybe in the US, but you have absolutely no proof the developers are in the US.

Not even in the US.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#mods

The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic.

markehmus · Jun 10, 2013

Rydian said:
Which is a sad state of affairs, really.

Make a song.

Nobody expects you to make remixes or trims of it to fit their specific DJing (or Stepmania/ITG) needs. If somebody asks you can deny, and nobody will think you're a worse musical artist. In the same vein if somebody asks you for the samples and recordings, you can deny and nobody cares.

Digitally draw a picture.

Nobody expects you to also release PSDs with the individual layers so they can easily extract the characters and/or background for use in a different fashion. If somebody asks, simply ignore them and nobody will think you're a worse artist. They will continue to enjoy your works like they already did.

Make some 3D art.

You don't get people hounding you asking for the textures and models+riggings. If somebody wants them, you can just decline, and nobody cares. You're still making custom 3D art that people will enjoy.

But if you make some homebrew or a game hack for a video game system, you should expect to get hassled and for people to throw fits if you don't release the source and all the details.

And that's terrible.

Only in the homebrew scene have I ever seen people be so goddamned self-entitled.

movies come out on dvd, bluray, and other digital media, people pick their format preferred.
people ask for release change all the time: theatrical,unlimited,directors cut,television edit.
creators share what the make and have.

just noticing something,
it seems like no matter whats up,
its more of a game to the creators to watch gbatemp whine and cry
then really about how this is released (are we so gullible)

creators have the files and apps already there on your desktop,
share only the riivolution version out of spite for a version of pirate
(when its all pirated , breaking some law or morals) ,
expect everyone to complain,
have fun watching a community battle like small children.

i personally have the means to play this release,
but i would like more then one way to load,
but am thankful for the release in any form

Plstic · Jun 10, 2013

Could I run this from Riivolution on UNEEK?

markehmus · Jun 10, 2013

im under your be said:
Could I run this from Riivolution on UNEEK?

no need
use uneek2o r96 beta 6.8

r96 beta 6.8

DI-USB:
- Fixed DI Activity LED functionality
- Added simple support for Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii and Cannon Super Mario Bros. Wii

There are multiple ways to make it work. One of them is described here:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-patch-the-nsmb-image-to-get-newer.349213/#post-4669801

NOTES: - Make sure the ID3 is "NMN" (0x4e4d4e) for Newer and "MMN" (0x4d4d4e) for Cannon
- Rename "loader.bin" to "newer.bin" for Newer and "cannon.bin" for Cannon and put
them in usb:/sneek/

- If there's need for it I'll add the main.dol patches also, but for now you'll
have to patch the dol yourself

Relys · Jun 10, 2013

SifJar said:
Nonsense. Maybe in the US, but you have absolutely no proof the developers are in the US. Your laws don't apply elsewhere. You cannot categorically state it is illegal without full knowledge of the facts. Plus I doubt you're qualified to give legal advice anyway.

http://www.whois.com/whois/newerteam.com

http://www.whois.com/whois/registrar-servers.com

I am a security researcher at a university, however, I am not a lawyer and non of my posts should be taken as legal advice.

SifJar said:
Besides that, I don't see any mention of law in my post. I don't understand why everyone seems to think that the only reason people oppose piracy is "because it's illegal", and therefore they should oppose anything else illegal. What a load of rubbish. People oppose piracy because it is wrong. It is not right to obtain content you have not paid for (be it movies, music or video games). That is why devs oppose piracy, not because of the law (generally speaking). There is nothing wrong with ripping a copy of your own game, even if it is "illegal". So that statement is inherently flawed, because you fail to see why people oppose piracy. [And no, I do not want to get into a discussion regarding the morality of piracy; if you try to engage me in one, I will not respond, so don't bother]

Your opinion. I'm stating that what the devs doing are illegal and I am annoyed by their "holier-than-thou" attitude of their stance on piracy while they deny a disabled user in the community the chance to play their mod.

SifJar said:
And what I was trying to say is the community should not expect them to. They don't owe the community anything. Don't be so entitled.

Well the community apparently does. Like I said, behavior dictates expectations. Judging by the number of posts and legitimate concerns that have been brought up since its release, you are in the minority. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it doesn't matter if you don't agree with it, because people are going to continue to post about this issue until it's resolved.

Treeki · Jun 10, 2013

damysteryman said:
Well, tried to rebuild ISO once more, with a different ISO tool this time, but same results... not sure what I am doing wrong...
I think I will call it a break for now, I am off to get some dinner!

I just packed my own with wit and it seems to work fine. Tested it on Dolphin, was able to get to the map and complete 4-1.

Here's the list of files I've got, if you want to check it against your dirtree: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4558613/FileList.txt

Celice said:
Thanks for responding I didn't know treeki was involved! I remember when that kid was 12 or 13 on acmlm, first getting a NSMB editor working. A lot of us were pretty astounded to have someone so young interested in romhacking like him. He was also pretty cool around the forums. I haven't heard of him in the past few years, other than being involved with the Reggie editor at some point... maybe I should get back in touch with him? It's been some years though

Yep, I'm 18 now

I'm still around Jul and Kafuka (the two spinoffs of Acmlm's Board 2), though I'm rarely active on the forums, I usually just idle in IRC.

I was one of the two creators of Reggie, and that's what got me into this Newer mess... I'll probably make level editors for NSMB2/U when/if they're hackable, but I'm DEFINITELY not getting into another game project like this :|

Celice · Jun 10, 2013

Treeki said:
Yep, I'm 18 now I'm still around Jul and Kafuka (the two spinoffs of Acmlm's Board 2), though I'm rarely active on the forums, I usually just idle in IRC.

I was one of the two creators of Reggie, and that's what got me into this Newer mess... I'll probably make level editors for NSMB2/U when/if they're hackable, but I'm DEFINITELY not getting into another game project like this :|

Oh cool man! I hang around Jul, but mostly only in the TCRF section :E Kafuka's pretty much dead to me though D: Though it'd be nice if there was still some large central romhacking hub to hang out in... GBAtemp was the only real thing I found after acmlm kinda went bust.

I'm glad that you were able to get the game running on Dolphin. That bodes well for my brother's situation.

Hacking Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii is out now.

I am too busy IRL these days...

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Not a pirate

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