PC on the way : Need suggestion for my initial setup

  • Thread starter Thread starter Noctosphere
  • Start date Start date
  • Views Views 3,041
  • Replies Replies 47
  • Likes Likes 1
At this point, I'll just try to return it...
If I'm just gonna go through more and more trouble because of some "proprietary shits", I'll just try to get another PC.
Proprietary cabling is just a fucking scam

Something to be aware of though, which I added in an edit on the other comment - you may run into this still with whatever else you end up buying. It's an issue if BOTH 1) the PSU sends 3.3v over SATA power, AND 2) the HDD/SSD supports a reset function when being sent 3.3v.

I have dealt with this in both NASes I built, both are built with off the shelf consumer grade PC hardware from Microcenter. My PSUs all send the 3.3v, and my HDDs mostly all care about it and support that reset function. In my case, all of my shit is hooked up with SATA splitter cables, so I removed the 3.3v line entirely from the cable (equivalent to cutting it like I had mentioned).

If it is the 3.3v reset issue then it sounds like whatever HDD/SSD you're using does indeed care about that 3.3v being sent to it, and is not a matter of things being proprietary, per se. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Something to be aware of though, which I added in an edit on the other comment - you may run into this still with whatever else you end up buying. It's an issue if BOTH 1) the PSU sends 3.3v over SATA power, AND 2) the HDD/SSD supports a reset function when being sent 3.3v.

I have dealt with this in both NASes I built, both are built with off the shelf consumer grade PC hardware from Microcenter. My PSUs all send the 3.3v, and my HDDs mostly all care about it and support that reset function. In my case, all of my shit is hooked up with SATA splitter cables, so I removed the 3.3v line entirely from the cable (equivalent to cutting it like I had mentioned).

If it is the 3.3v reset issue then it sounds like whatever HDD/SSD you're using does indeed care about that 3.3v being sent to it, and is not a matter of things being proprietary, per se. Just something to keep in mind.
After trying (twice) to explain what you are telling me to ChatGPT, to understand what you mean, and what I should understand, it keeps telling me that Dell uses proprietary cables, and that it doesn't have any 3.3v (in these cables) and that is the reason why I cannot add another HDD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VinsCool
Ok, then reddit says the same about Dell PSU having proprietary cable. I guess I shouldn't take advice from reddit either?

I don't know dude, I don't know what reddit threads you're looking at that say it has a proprietary cable, I don't know what kind of proprietary cable would be able to connect to a standard SATA power interface without seeing what you're looking at, and I don't know what random sequence of words chatgpt is hallucinating for you. I've given you all of the technical information I have available given my firsthand experience with what sounds to be the same issue on entirely different hardware and about 0.25PB worth of hard drives that I have in service in my homelab.

Re-linking the technical writeup in case you don't see that I added this in an edit. This is not exclusive to 8TB white label WD Easystore disks, that was just what was the popular disk at the time where this suddenly became a very prevalent occurrence. https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/7fx0i0/wd_easystore_8tb_compendium/
 
I don't know dude, I don't know what reddit threads you're looking at that say it has a proprietary cable, I don't know what kind of proprietary cable would be able to connect to a standard SATA power interface without seeing what you're looking at, and I don't know what random sequence of words chatgpt is hallucinating for you. I've given you all of the technical information I have available given my firsthand experience with what sounds to be the same issue on entirely different hardware and about 0.25PB worth of hard drives that I have in service in my homelab.

Re-linking the technical writeup in case you don't see that I added this in an edit. This is not exclusive to 8TB white label WD Easystore disks, that was just what was the popular disk at the time where this suddenly became a very prevalent occurrence. https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/7fx0i0/wd_easystore_8tb_compendium/
Sorry, I'm just really pissed off that nothing's working right now...
I'm sending pictures right now
Post automatically merged:

Do you need to see something specific?
 

Attachments

  • 20251114_140743.jpg
    20251114_140743.jpg
    451.9 KB · Views: 32
  • 20251114_140650.jpg
    20251114_140650.jpg
    2.1 MB · Views: 34
  • 20251114_140645.jpg
    20251114_140645.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 30
Sorry, I'm just really pissed off that nothing's working right now...
I'm sending pictures right now
Post automatically merged:

Do you need to see something specific?
That all looks like normal fare, so I'm going to refer back to the 3.3v reset issue that I mentioned where your fix would be to either tape over the last 3 pins on the SATA power connector on the drives closest to the SATA data cable, or cut the orange cable between the PSU and the first SATA power plug.

This reddit thread in which OP has a 3660 (as opposed to your 3630) confirmed that his issue was indeed the 3.3v reset issue and that the aforementioned solutions fixed it for him. https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/1ah5upj/new_3660_wont_see_second_internal_hdd_not_even_in/ I'm quite confident this is your issue.

It's nothing about being proprietary, it's just an unfortunate overlap of changing SAS and SATA specifications and ATX power supply wiring.
 
And to remove ambiguity, I specifically mean this orange cable, somewhere between where the arrows are pointing and the plug end at the power supply

View attachment 539440
I am curious if the same effect could be achieve when using a molex to SATA adapter?
This way no permanent change is necessary, assuming if molex connectors does exist on the PSU. Especially for testing purpose.

EDIT:
I just realize that you're using splitter cable that has that 3.3v end cut off, dang my dyslexia. So I would assume that the molex to SATA would be the same way, only it already omits the 3.3v by default.
Nocto, this is easy to do without making any changes to your PSU plug, just get a SATA power splitter and cut the 3.3v wire from the splitting end of the splitter. Then plug that splitter into your existing PSU SATA plug. Taking care to not leave any exposed wiring from the snip so not to short out the PSU.
Or mod the extension cable like shown on this website:
https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/guide-3-3v-sata-power-cable-mod-3-3v-wire-removal/9806
 
Last edited by RandomUser,
So I would assume that the molex to SATA would be the same way, only it already omits the 3.3v by default.

Correct, Molex to SATA adapter/splitter cable omits the 3.3v line by default and would alleviate this issue. I tend though to be bit reluctant to recommend those to folks that are less experienced with these sorts of adapters and general internal workings of computers (no disrespect intended)due to the legitimate risk of melting and/or fire that some of the Molex to SATA adapters carry.

To be specific, there are two types of female SATA power connectors you tend to see - ones where the plastic is a matte finish and injection-molded around the wires; and ones similar to what are on that cable in the STH forum post you linked, where it is a shiny finish and the wires are crimped/punched down/staked into the connector and it pierces the wire insulation to make the connection. The latter, where the wires are crimped/punched down, and you can open the back of the connector and unseat the wire from the connector, are generally considered "safe" to use (I've had MULTIPLE of this style deployed in my NASes for years without a single issue. And indeed I pulled the 3.3v wire out of the back of them to solve this issue for myself).

The ones that look all nice and pretty with the wires going into the back and the connector is nicely molded around the wires are generally considered NOT SAFE and carry a risk of melting and eventually fire. And it's ABS plastic, which is happy to provide itself as fuel for the fire :D

Not safe example (SATA ends are all nice and pretty looking, the connector's injection molding is done directly around the wire insulation (which is bad!!!)):

1763274626396.png


Another not safe example (the female ends downstream are the safe kind, however the male end at the beginning of the chain is the molded kind of connector, which is not safe):

1763274262737.png


"Safe" example (you can see the back of each connector, including the male end at the beginning, has a clip that pops off that helps to hold the wire in place where it is punched down/staked into the back):

1763274368032.png

Note, this ^^^ one is a SATA to SATA splitter, and would need the 3.3v line removed or cut from this splitter in order to fix the problem.

A "Safe" Molex -> SATA splitter (no 3.3v issue) (the SATA ends again have that cover on the back to help secure the wire as it is staked into the connector, meanwhile the Molex end... Molex is about as simple as it gets. It's a shitty connector IMO but hard to go wrong there, really (the Molex end is safe)):

1763274542452.png


Another "safe" variety of Molex -> SATA splitter (no 3.3v issue, this is a different kind of SATA connector where even though the wires go straight into the back of the connector (something which is bad on the other ones), you can see how these connectors have little tongues to hold the individual pins in the connector in place, and those pins are physically crimped onto the wire. The connector body is NOT injection molded around the wire insulation in this case):

1763274848032.png


Of course there are caveats abound - I say "safe" in quotes because every one of these connections you add increases resistance along the circuit at the connector junctions, as well as each disk you add increases the current draw and the main cable that comes from the PSU that you are connecting this splitter/adapter to may not be rated to support that much current, then it overheats and melts or burns. For someone just adding 2-3 extra disks in their system, realistically it's pretty unlikely it'd ever be an issue. For someone like me who has in some cases 2 of these 3- or 4-way splitters on a single 3-port SATA cable from my PSU in order to power 8 HDDs on one cable... maybe pushing my luck a little, maybe probably still kind of sort of OK. Don't be like me.

(PS... sorry for the novel!)

Also, just to mention - for context, the one in the STH pic is a PSU SATA cable, and that has the "safe" crimped/staked connectors on it. I don't believe I have EVER seen a PSU SATA cable/connector that is the unsafe injection molded kind. Case in point, the connectors Nocto posted in their pic are all the safe variety.
 
Last edited by Sicklyboy,

That one unfortunately is not.

This one from StarTech is pretty widely regarded as the best/safest one you can get (I have 5 of them lol), and is what I would recommend if you're looking to go that route. https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-PYO4SATA-Power-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B0086OGN9E Specifically the "1 SATA to 4x SATA" model on that listing, NOT the "1 SATA to 2x SATA" model (the 1 to 2x is the unsafe design)

Note that since it is a SATA to SATA splitter, you will still experience the 3.3v reset issue until you cut or remove the 3.3v wire from this splitter adapter
 
At this point, I'll just try to return it...
If I'm just gonna go through more and more trouble because of some "proprietary shits", I'll just try to get another PC.
Proprietary cabling is just a fucking scam
That doesn't actually have anything to do with the cabling, or anything being proprietary. It's an incompatibility issue between some (older) PSUs and some (especially datacenter) HDDs. It's just as likely to happen with a custom built PC using only off the shelf parts.
 
That one unfortunately is not.

This one from StarTech is pretty widely regarded as the best/safest one you can get (I have 5 of them lol), and is what I would recommend if you're looking to go that route. https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-PYO4SATA-Power-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B0086OGN9E Specifically the "1 SATA to 4x SATA" model on that listing, NOT the "1 SATA to 2x SATA" model (the 1 to 2x is the unsafe design)

Note that since it is a SATA to SATA splitter, you will still experience the 3.3v reset issue until you cut or remove the 3.3v wire from this splitter adapter
Well, I already had ordered this one
:rofl2:
Tell me, should I try what you guys said (cutting the orange wire)? Or return it and order another one?
 
Correct, Molex to SATA adapter/splitter cable omits the 3.3v line by default and would alleviate this issue. I tend though to be bit reluctant to recommend those to folks that are less experienced with these sorts of adapters and general internal workings of computers (no disrespect intended)due to the legitimate risk of melting and/or fire that some of the Molex to SATA adapters carry.

To be specific, there are two types of female SATA power connectors you tend to see - ones where the plastic is a matte finish and injection-molded around the wires; and ones similar to what are on that cable in the STH forum post you linked, where it is a shiny finish and the wires are crimped/punched down/staked into the connector and it pierces the wire insulation to make the connection. The latter, where the wires are crimped/punched down, and you can open the back of the connector and unseat the wire from the connector, are generally considered "safe" to use (I've had MULTIPLE of this style deployed in my NASes for years without a single issue. And indeed I pulled the 3.3v wire out of the back of them to solve this issue for myself).

The ones that look all nice and pretty with the wires going into the back and the connector is nicely molded around the wires are generally considered NOT SAFE and carry a risk of melting and eventually fire. And it's ABS plastic, which is happy to provide itself as fuel for the fire :D

Not safe example (SATA ends are all nice and pretty looking, the connector's injection molding is done directly around the wire insulation (which is bad!!!)):

View attachment 539635

Another not safe example (the female ends downstream are the safe kind, however the male end at the beginning of the chain is the molded kind of connector, which is not safe):

View attachment 539632

"Safe" example (you can see the back of each connector, including the male end at the beginning, has a clip that pops off that helps to hold the wire in place where it is punched down/staked into the back):

View attachment 539633
Note, this ^^^ one is a SATA to SATA splitter, and would need the 3.3v line removed or cut from this splitter in order to fix the problem.

A "Safe" Molex -> SATA splitter (no 3.3v issue) (the SATA ends again have that cover on the back to help secure the wire as it is staked into the connector, meanwhile the Molex end... Molex is about as simple as it gets. It's a shitty connector IMO but hard to go wrong there, really (the Molex end is safe)):

View attachment 539634

Another "safe" variety of Molex -> SATA splitter (no 3.3v issue, this is a different kind of SATA connector where even though the wires go straight into the back of the connector (something which is bad on the other ones), you can see how these connectors have little tongues to hold the individual pins in the connector in place, and those pins are physically crimped onto the wire. The connector body is NOT injection molded around the wire insulation in this case):

View attachment 539636

Of course there are caveats abound - I say "safe" in quotes because every one of these connections you add increases resistance along the circuit at the connector junctions, as well as each disk you add increases the current draw and the main cable that comes from the PSU that you are connecting this splitter/adapter to may not be rated to support that much current, then it overheats and melts or burns. For someone just adding 2-3 extra disks in their system, realistically it's pretty unlikely it'd ever be an issue. For someone like me who has in some cases 2 of these 3- or 4-way splitters on a single 3-port SATA cable from my PSU in order to power 8 HDDs on one cable... maybe pushing my luck a little, maybe probably still kind of sort of OK. Don't be like me.

(PS... sorry for the novel!)

Also, just to mention - for context, the one in the STH pic is a PSU SATA cable, and that has the "safe" crimped/staked connectors on it. I don't believe I have EVER seen a PSU SATA cable/connector that is the unsafe injection molded kind. Case in point, the connectors Nocto posted in their pic are all the safe variety.
None taken, I am happy to learn something new. I always thought if the current are well below 4.5 amps, it is safe, it appears I am wrong. I did forget about resistance which could add heat to the cables. I have used the not safe cables and have not had a problem, except when I realized I went over the SATA current limit using a fan hub and considering the Molex allows for higher amperes, then the SATA port supports and that was the only part that melted. Each of the fan was rated at 1 to 1.5 amps a piece, but measured below that at max power. The hub was powered by a SATA adapter. I can certainly see what you're saying, though and does makes sense. btw the STH forum also linked to the very cable you have posted, only it is on Amazon USA.
 
That one unfortunately is not.

This one from StarTech is pretty widely regarded as the best/safest one you can get (I have 5 of them lol), and is what I would recommend if you're looking to go that route. https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-PYO4SATA-Power-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B0086OGN9E Specifically the "1 SATA to 4x SATA" model on that listing, NOT the "1 SATA to 2x SATA" model (the 1 to 2x is the unsafe design)

Note that since it is a SATA to SATA splitter, you will still experience the 3.3v reset issue until you cut or remove the 3.3v wire from this splitter adapter
Well, I already had ordered this one
:rofl2:
Tell me, should I try what you guys said (cutting the orange wire)? Or return it and order another one?
What do you think I should do?
 
What do you think I should do?
woops, sorry, didn't see your last message

I'm gonna preface all of this with - PERSONALLY I would just cut the orange wire. I don't want to promise or guarantee you that that is indeed the fix for you, though I am quite confident that it is given how I've seen the same behavior before with other disks on other consumer-grade systems, as well as that reddit thread I linked a few posts ago of the guy with the 3660 that confirmed that cutting that wire (or any other number of ways of removing that 3.3v signal from the drives) did fix this for him.

You've got a few options:

1) cut the wire. If it turns out to not be the fix, you are functionally no worse off than you are right now. There's really nothing that you are going to plug in in this computer that is going to utilize that 3.3v wire, so not having it anymore isn't going to negatively impact you there. The only downside is that if you do decide you end up wanting to return it, having a cut wire there might complicate things a bit for you.

2) Order that $11something StarTech SATA power cable splitter, and remove the wire from that instead. idk if you want to shell out the extra few bucks for that or not, but that's a way to accomplish it without modifying the original system by cutting its PSU cable

3) I didn't realize originally, that 2-way splitter you linked a few posts back that I said was the not-safe kind? I also didn't realize that it doesn't have the 3.3v line on it, which is ultimately the desired outcome here. So, assuming Amazon CA is the same as Amazon US in this regard, they don't give a fuck if you return an opened package lol. If you've still got that on the way, open the package and plug it in and see if the drives work. If they do? You can then decide if you want to return that adapter and just cut the orange wire on the PSU, or you can keep using that adapter if you want, or return it and go with option #2 above then. Yes, I said it's the not-safe kind. Statistically, you probably won't have an issue. It's not a statistic that I personally want to gamble with, but I also push my systems harder than most would. (I actually may have one of those adapters in use right now, to be honest. Can't remember).

If it were me? I'd go for #1, yolo cut the wire. I'm also in a position where removing my ability to return it would be annoying but not the end of the world for me from a budget perspective. I don't know whether that is or isn't the case for you. It's certainly none of my business whether it is or isn't. Just sharing my perspective from where I'm standing is all.

On the other hand, #3 is definitely the lowest risk option as it does nothing to alter your ability to return the PC, just depends on if you still have that adapter on order and don't mind waiting for it to get delivered
 
  • Like
Reactions: Noctosphere
woops, sorry, didn't see your last message

I'm gonna preface all of this with - PERSONALLY I would just cut the orange wire. I don't want to promise or guarantee you that that is indeed the fix for you, though I am quite confident that it is given how I've seen the same behavior before with other disks on other consumer-grade systems, as well as that reddit thread I linked a few posts ago of the guy with the 3660 that confirmed that cutting that wire (or any other number of ways of removing that 3.3v signal from the drives) did fix this for him.

You've got a few options:

1) cut the wire. If it turns out to not be the fix, you are functionally no worse off than you are right now. There's really nothing that you are going to plug in in this computer that is going to utilize that 3.3v wire, so not having it anymore isn't going to negatively impact you there. The only downside is that if you do decide you end up wanting to return it, having a cut wire there might complicate things a bit for you.

2) Order that $11something StarTech SATA power cable splitter, and remove the wire from that instead. idk if you want to shell out the extra few bucks for that or not, but that's a way to accomplish it without modifying the original system by cutting its PSU cable

3) I didn't realize originally, that 2-way splitter you linked a few posts back that I said was the not-safe kind? I also didn't realize that it doesn't have the 3.3v line on it, which is ultimately the desired outcome here. So, assuming Amazon CA is the same as Amazon US in this regard, they don't give a fuck if you return an opened package lol. If you've still got that on the way, open the package and plug it in and see if the drives work. If they do? You can then decide if you want to return that adapter and just cut the orange wire on the PSU, or you can keep using that adapter if you want, or return it and go with option #2 above then. Yes, I said it's the not-safe kind. Statistically, you probably won't have an issue. It's not a statistic that I personally want to gamble with, but I also push my systems harder than most would. (I actually may have one of those adapters in use right now, to be honest. Can't remember).

If it were me? I'd go for #1, yolo cut the wire. I'm also in a position where removing my ability to return it would be annoying but not the end of the world for me from a budget perspective. I don't know whether that is or isn't the case for you. It's certainly none of my business whether it is or isn't. Just sharing my perspective from where I'm standing is all.

On the other hand, #3 is definitely the lowest risk option as it does nothing to alter your ability to return the PC, just depends on if you still have that adapter on order and don't mind waiting for it to get delivered
Well, I already have it in hand (I actually had it when I posted it :P)
But thanks, I'm gonna try this tomorrow in the morning. I had no idea it hadn't the 3.3v wire, so even better, I guess?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sicklyboy

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum