Misc GBA Mother 3 fan translation dilemma

Crystal_tofu · Nov 18, 2024

I've had this topic come up in conversations with friends and i often think about it in my spare time but..
isn't odd how it's been up for so long? while i love rom hacks and a common supporter this is one that has always stuck out like a sore thumb as it feels like something nintendo would crack down on as how vocal they are with not wanting to localize it.
I always looks back at the mother 3 email (iykyk) and it's always given me chills as it's never been confirmed who sent it or
if it was legit or not. any thoughts? (besides the screw "nintendo points" or "nintendo doesn't care" dw they'll drip feed us NSO content soon so save it till then lol) also i hope this is the right place for this thanks!

4d1xlaan · Nov 18, 2024

I dont think they care enough about the series to want to take that down, they would rather pretend it doesn't exist

Ryab · Nov 19, 2024

Crystal_tofu said:
I've had this topic come up in conversations with friends and i often think about it in my spare time but..
isn't odd how it's been up for so long? while i love rom hacks and a common supporter this is one that has always stuck out like a sore thumb as it feels like something nintendo would crack down on as how vocal they are with not wanting to localize it.
I always looks back at the mother 3 email (iykyk) and it's always given me chills as it's never been confirmed who sent it or
if it was legit or not. any thoughts? (besides the screw "nintendo points" or "nintendo doesn't care" dw they'll drip feed us NSO content soon so save it till then lol) also i hope this is the right place for this thanks!

You say this like there isn't a single thing Nintendo takes down. They tend to really only target things relating to modern works or fan games that get too popular. Most older things that get taken down are generally things that are specifically reported to them by bad community members (there are people who do this) or are false takedowns. This has actually been a huge issue lately as there have been people impersonating them with DMCA requests. And sites like Youtube have to take them seriously unless disputed otherwise they would be held liable.

Crystal_tofu · Nov 19, 2024

Ryab said:
You say this like there isn't a single thing Nintendo takes down.

this point doesn't make sense to me considering i phrased the post in a way to make it clear that it's just something that stuck out as odd to me, not from a logical sense ie. the legal grounds of it all but rather it's been pretty mainstream for quite some time by fans so i just thought it was overall odd nintendo hasn't at the very least stated anything regards to it, i didn't mean to upset you with my post or anything I'm not very good at explaining things sometimes. plus i just was just aiming to start a hopefully positive discussion about this as it's something i've always been interested in

Robert Newbie · Nov 19, 2024

To be honest, the conditions that keep Nintendo's lawyers away isn't clear cut to me.

Psycho Waluigi is still available, but it violates the general conditions of using Nintendo's IP. Both the Mother 3 fan translation and Ship of Harkinian are still available, but they do not include any Nintendo assets/code. Yuzu reportedly used Nintendo code, so that was taken down. Ryujinx was offered a deal, which suggests that Nintendo needed an alternative legal strategy.

My theory on the Mother 3 e-mail is that it was either a professional localizer concerned about job security or a troll trying to manipulate Tomato. Either way, the e-mail doesn't make a strong case. The argument that fan translations affect localization decisions is hard to substantiate.

In general, the likelihood of an international Mother 3 release was very low. Mother 3 released in Japan on the GBA in 2006, two years after the launch of the Nintendo DS. The release timing, the long development period, and poor sales of Earthbound in the West all contributed to Nintendo passing over an English localization.

The fan translation released in 2008, a whole two years after the initial GBA launch in Japan and four years after the NDS launch.

Thinking about it, if Nintendo translated the game and put it on a "Classic Mini" console, they'd get tons of hype, attention, sales, and scalpers.

Ryab · Nov 19, 2024

Robert Newbie said:
To be honest, the conditions that keep Nintendo's lawyers away isn't clear cut to me.

Psycho Waluigi is still available, but it violates the general conditions of using Nintendo's IP. Both the Mother 3 fan translation and Ship of Harkinian are still available, but they do not include any Nintendo assets/code. Yuzu reportedly used Nintendo code, so that was taken down. Ryujinx was offered a deal, which suggests that Nintendo needed an alternative legal strategy.

My theory on the Mother 3 e-mail is that it was either a professional localizer concerned about job security or a troll trying to manipulate Tomato. Either way, the e-mail doesn't make a strong case. The argument that fan translations affect localization decisions is hard to substantiate.

In general, the likelihood of an international Mother 3 release was very low. Mother 3 released in Japan on the GBA in 2006, two years after the launch of the Nintendo DS. The release timing, the long development period, and poor sales of Earthbound in the West all contributed to Nintendo passing over an English localization.

The fan translation released in 2008, a whole two years after the initial GBA launch in Japan and four years after the NDS launch.

Thinking about it, if Nintendo translated the game and put it on a "Classic Mini" console, they'd get tons of hype, attention, sales, and scalpers.

I mean we know the exact reason why Mother 3 hasnt come over. It entirely comes down to differences in laws.

AmandaRose · Nov 19, 2024

Nintendo can't do anything as they dont own the rights to the series as confirmed in the link below by ex Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aimé.

To quote the article for those that don't want to read the whole thing.

"As for Mother 3, "that has a different set of complexities." Fils-Aime said even though Satoru Iwata was involved with it, "it really isn't a Nintendo-owned franchise."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/0...ts-at-a-future-for-metroid-mother-3-on-switch

For those who are wondering who does own the franchise it's believed to be Shigesato Itoi but nobody has ever confirmed it.

Robert Newbie · Nov 19, 2024

Ryab said:
I mean we know the exact reason why Mother 3 hasnt come over. It entirely comes down to differences in laws.

I did some more research, and it seems that the music has many obvious inspirations that would set off alarms for several different companies. I didn't know this, but it seems the rights are owned by Shigesato Itoi or another entity. So, Nintendo would have to go through some legal hoops to start a new Earthbound/Mother project.

My memories of the game are vague, so I'd need fans to tell me what other content could be preventing the game from being localized. I remember one character passes away early on, but I don't think Nintendo would shy away from that.

Crystal_tofu · Nov 19, 2024

AmandaRose said:
Nintendo can't do anything as they dont own the rights to the series as confirmed in the link below by ex Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aimé.

To quote the article for those that don't want to read the whole thing.

"As for Mother 3, "that has a different set of complexities." Fils-Aime said even though Satoru Iwata was involved with it, "it really isn't a Nintendo-owned franchise."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/0...ts-at-a-future-for-metroid-mother-3-on-switch

For those who are wondering who does own the franchise it's believed to be Shigesato Itoi but nobody has ever confirmed it.

from what i've heard shiggy is pretty chill with fan works relating to the mother series which might have something to do with the fan translation still being available, however what sorta debunks that theory is the Mother 4 (now known as oddity) was ordered a DMCA take down, which that in particular is odd considering shiggy said himself the Mother series is by definition "over" since the ending was intentionally left to the players interpretation, this was followed up by him stating that if a Mother 4 were to happen, he'd like it to be made by fans.

Robert Newbie · Nov 19, 2024

Crystal_tofu said:
from what i've heard shiggy is pretty chill with fan works relating to the mother series which might have something to do with the fan translation still being available, however what sorta debunks that theory is the Mother 4 (now known as oddity) was ordered a DMCA take down, which that in particular is odd considering shiggy said himself the Mother series is by definition "over" since the ending was intentionally left to the players interpretation, this was followed up by him stating that if a Mother 4 were to happen, he'd like it to be made by fans.

Ah, I keep forgetting about Mother 4 fan games. Mother 4/Oddity seems to have been cancelled, since the dev(s) have fallen silent. Same for the other known Mother 4 fan project. It's a shame because both looked amazing.

Crystal_tofu · Nov 19, 2024

Robert Newbie said:
Ah, I keep forgetting about Mother 4 fan games. Mother 4/Oddity seems to have been cancelled, since the dev(s) have fallen silent. Same for the other known Mother 4 fan project. It's a shame because both looked amazing.

Oddity is still ongoing development allegedly, however i won't be surprised if that gets canceled at some point as the dev team has had to start from scratch many times due to either not meeting the "creative vision" set by the lead dev or just overall drama within the dev team as a whole, as for the other Mother 4, I'm not sure how that is going, I watched seen the trailer on my phone while eating at Arby's and that's about it

Robert Newbie · Nov 19, 2024

Crystal_tofu said:
Oddity is still ongoing development allegedly, however i won't be surprised if that gets canceled at some point as the dev team has had to start from scratch many times due to either not meeting the "creative vision" set by the lead dev or just overall drama within the dev team as a whole, as for the other Mother 4, I'm not sure how that is going, I watched seen the trailer on my phone while eating at Arby's and that's about it

That is a shame about Oddity. Even Mother 3 had some last minute development challenges.

As the legend goes, Shigesato Itoi wanted an easter egg implemented towards the end of the game's development. If the player interacted with a character multiple times, a new piece of dialog would be triggered. This had to be implemented from scratch in a hurry. Kudos to the dev.

Jayro · Nov 19, 2024

I feel like Nintendo doesn't want to release a Localized Mother 3 now, because the fan translation exists. It's all over AliExpress for just $5 USD, and Nintendo knows they can't beat that.

4d1xlaan · Nov 19, 2024

it wouldn't make sense to dmca the fan translation now, 16 years later. it wouldn't do anything, because it's already been widely available and they've been done working on it for a long time now. it won't stop distribution and it wouldn't retroactively prevent them from having worked on it

I mean, yeah, they did release a new version in 2021 which made it even better, but even if it hadnt been updated because of a dmca, people were already more than happy with v1.2 before it. they could dmca it now and prevent an eventual v1.4, and I dont think anyone would even feel like they're missing out on anything

Robert Newbie · Nov 20, 2024

4d1xlaan said:
it wouldn't make sense to dmca the fan translation now, 16 years later. it wouldn't do anything, because it's already been widely available and they've been done working on it for a long time now. it won't stop distribution and it wouldn't retroactively prevent them from having worked on it

I mean, yeah, they did release a new version in 2021 which made it even better, but even if it hadnt been updated because of a dmca, people were already more than happy with v1.2 before it. they could dmca it now and prevent an eventual v1.4, and I dont think anyone would even feel like they're missing out on anything

Reading this post, I'm reminded of the GTA3/Vice City decomps. They were developing unabated until Rockstar began work on the Definitive Editions. From there, Rockstar shut the projects down and took the dev(s) to court.

If Nintendo decided that the international market was there for Mother 3, they'd likely follow that methodology. They'd shut down the translation patch's website, any sites offering the patch or game, and any stores offering the pre-made cartridges. For people not completely in the know, it'd be like the patch never existed.

That reminds me, GTA3 exists on a Nintendo console now. Is it not 2001 anymore?

Ryab · 2024-11-26T22:13:25+0000

Robert Newbie said:
I did some more research, and it seems that the music has many obvious inspirations that would set off alarms for several different companies. I didn't know this, but it seems the rights are owned by Shigesato Itoi or another entity. So, Nintendo would have to go through some legal hoops to start a new Earthbound/Mother project.

My memories of the game are vague, so I'd need fans to tell me what other content could be preventing the game from being localized. I remember one character passes away early on, but I don't think Nintendo would shy away from that.

Yeah in order to get it localized without any possible legal issues they'd have to change half the soundtrack

Crystal_tofu · 2024-11-26T22:24:27+0000

Ryab said:
Yeah in order to get it localized without any possible legal issues they'd have to change half the soundtrack

that's entirely debatable considering Earthbound had the exact issue the only place it didn't release in was Europe, it's at this point a matter of getting permission from the source or not re releasing the game at all, in the events the game gets a potential remake or remaster, while unlikely it'd open the doors for some flexibility to get around that hoop i'd assume. to add more to this, the music being the issue for mother 3 never exactly sat right with me considering the source it came from (Moon Channel) as his credibility in my opinion went south when he took the L in the completionist drama, also reggie did say:

“That is not at all the issue why Mother 3 in particular never made it to the west. It was all based on the business needs and the business situation at the time.”

when answering a question in regards to the magypsies potentially being the issue, but that answer alone could literally mean anything and as far as i'm aware there's literally nothing that concretely confirmed what that meant from the source itself.

https://nintendoeverything.com/regg...ntent-isnt-to-blame-for-lack-of-localization/

my personal theory is that it could have something to do with potential conflict with nintendo and brownie brown as that was a big reason the fan translation had the issues it did in development as Tomato has outright stated that they were pretty difficult to work with.

Misc GBA Mother 3 fan translation dilemma

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