Arizona supreme court brings back 1864 Abortion ruling

Xzi · Apr 11, 2024

Jayro said:
Sounds like Arizona's gonna flip blue this year. <3

Was already fairly purple, too bad Kyrsten Sinema has been such a disappointment/sellout.

Hanafuda · Apr 11, 2024

Xzi said:
Confederates had lost effective control of it by July 1862, but the area controlled by the Union only covered about half of Arizona as we know it today. The Civil War was ongoing until May of 1865, and so the confederacy was still claiming ownership of the territory until that time.

So? This law (which, by the way, was recodified in 1901, 1913, and 1977) was first made effective in 1864 as part of a codification of all Arizona laws, because Arizona had become a US Territory.

Xzi · Apr 11, 2024

Hanafuda said:
So? This law (which, by the way, was recodified in 1901, 1913, and 1977) was first made effective in 1864 as part of a codification of all Arizona laws, because Arizona had become a US Territory.

So if I was a political consultant, I'd recommend any/all parties avoid voicing support for draconian laws which pre-date the end of the Civil War. Opposition to enforcement of such laws is the de-facto common sense position, and with this vote, Republicans in Arizona were going out of their way to be as obnoxiously divisive as possible. They're free to tie their own noose though, and it shouldn't be too difficult for Democrats to use this as ammunition against the national Republican party either.

AncientBoi · Apr 11, 2024

This is NOT a joke Mods

I have been trying, in earnest to get preggy since I was.. And NOBODYs gonna take away My Right to Conceive.

If you guys only knew how much I Really Want to Conceive My Own Child.

Hanafuda · Apr 11, 2024

Xzi said:
So if I was a political consultant, I'd recommend any/all parties avoid voicing support for draconian laws which pre-date the end of the Civil War. Opposition to enforcement of such laws is the de-facto common sense position, and with this vote, Republicans in Arizona were going out of their way to be as obnoxiously divisive as possible. They're free to tie their own noose though, and it shouldn't be too difficult for Democrats to use this as ammunition against the national Republican party either.

I think everything you just said there is 100% spot-on. "draconian" is vague and subjective, but I know what you mean.

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2024

AncientBoi said:
This is NOT a joke Mods

I have been trying, in earnest to get preggy since I was.. And NOBODYs gonna take away My Right to Conceive.

You just reminded me of the Loretta scene in The Life of Brian. I'm not gonna post it here though, because some folks are sense of humor deprived.

Xzi · Apr 11, 2024

Hanafuda said:
I think everything you just said there is 100% spot-on. "draconian" is vague and subjective, but I know what you mean.

Criminalizing safe methods of abortion is bad enough on its own, but what really pushes this particular law over the line into draconian territory is the lack of exceptions for rape and incest. Post-Roe, there have already been several cases of girls aged between ten and twelve years old who were forced to give birth and severely damage their bodies for the rest of their lives.

Hanafuda · Apr 11, 2024

Xzi said:
Criminalizing safe methods of abortion is bad enough on its own, but what really pushes this particular law over the line into draconian territory is the lack of exceptions for rape and incest. Post-Roe, there have already been several cases of girls aged between ten and twelve years old who were forced to give birth and severely damage their bodies for the rest of their lives.

I'm not disagreeing or trying to debate abortion here. I think you know that. Go back to my original post and read the rest too ... the Judges on the Arizona Supreme Court had to answer the question, "Is this law still in effect?" It didn't matter what the law was about. They just answered the question.

Taleweaver · Apr 12, 2024

Okay...someone HAD to ask the question and the supreme court HAD to reply to it. The way I see it, it's just one of those remnant old laws that nobody really cares about and that has no practical use because no one in their right mind is going to enforce it.

You can just leave politics out of it. If everyone just votes to throw out this law, then nobody has to take a blame for...

What's that? Republicans won't block this law? But...what?

Jeez...just when you thought your world view of republican politicians was "cartoonishly comic evil" and therefore couldn't possibly be real, they go all "nope! that's us! we ARE that evil

".

...

They know the point of an election is to get the MOST votes, right?

Hanafuda · Apr 12, 2024

Taleweaver said:
Okay...someone HAD to ask the question and the supreme court HAD to reply to it. The way I see it, it's just one of those remnant old laws that nobody really cares about and that has no practical use because no one in their right mind is going to enforce it.

You can just leave politics out of it. If everyone just votes to throw out this law, then nobody has to take a blame for...

What's that? Republicans won't block this law? But...what?

Jeez...just when you thought your world view of republican politicians was "cartoonishly comic evil" and therefore couldn't possibly be real, they go all "nope! that's us! we ARE that evil ".

...

They know the point of an election is to get the MOST votes, right?

Well, one thing the news story you read probably didn't tell you is that the AZ Supreme Court's ruling already put a stay on enforcing the same statute they said was still effectively "law." The governor saying she won't enforce it is just political posturing, because the (AZ) Supreme Court has already said that nobody is to attempt enforcing this law, for now, while litigation continues. So there is no "urgency" for the legislature to immediately repeal it. The Republicans you read about "blocking" the repeal of this law probably want some time to negotiate on issues like late-term abortions and "born alive" protections, instead of just opening the flood gates to abortion at any time, for any reason.

Taleweaver · Apr 12, 2024

Hanafuda said:
Well, one thing the news story you read probably didn't tell you is that the AZ Supreme Court's ruling already put a stay on enforcing the same statute they said was still effectively "law." The governor saying she won't enforce it is just political posturing, because the (AZ) Supreme Court has already said that nobody is to attempt enforcing this law, for now, while litigation continues. So there is no "urgency" for the legislature to immediately repeal it. The Republicans you read about "blocking" the repeal of this law probably want some time to negotiate on issues like late-term abortions and "born alive" protections, instead of just opening the flood gates to abortion at any time, for any reason.

So when Republicans take a position in this you call it "they want some time to negotiate" but when democrats do it, it's "political posturing"?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. The timing is suspicious, I'll give you that (fucking democrats. How dare they bring this up when it matters!) . But Republicans defending or even faffing about this monstrosity is just inexcusable.

Hanafuda · Apr 12, 2024

Taleweaver said:
So when Republicans take a position in this you call it "they want some time to negotiate" but when democrats do it, it's "political posturing"?

If that's what you got from my post, then your reading comprehension suffers. Severely.

It's political posturing for the Governor to make a big announcement about how she's not going to enforce this law, because the Arizona Supreme Court included in their decision a stay on enforcing it. In other words, until they say otherwise, the Supreme Court is prohibiting anyone from enforcing it. All they have said it is that technically, it could be enforced because it's still legitimately on the books, and nobody (including Democrats) has ever done anything to take it down or change it. But it means nothing for the Governor to portray herself as the shield of protection, because nobody can be charged with violating that law right now.

If this law is simply repealed, without any revision of the law to replace it, then will there be ANY limits on getting an abortion in Arizona?? I don't know, do you know? Even European countries have restrictions on abortion, so why is it outlandish for the Republican legislators to want to have a deal in place for a replacement law that will keep normal, mainstream-acknowledged restrictions intact? And if it is repealed, without a replacement provision being agreed to, how long will it take to get such a law passed? Months? Years? The Democrats know this, and this is why they're pushing for it to be repealed IMMEDIATELY (even though nobody can be charged with violating it anyway).

supermist · Apr 13, 2024

Hypothetical nonsense

chrisrlink · Apr 15, 2024

Hanafuda said:
I think you're right that this is will harm Republican candidates in the election this fall. But that doesn't mean the judges on their Supreme Court were wrong. As the court case file you linked states right at the beginning, it's a case of statutory interpretation and application, not questions of fact. The law is on the books. How many years did Arizona have a Democrat-controlled legislature that could've repealed this law? (I don't know the answer to that, but you know what I'm saying.) Neglecting what easily could've been done when Democrats had the power to do so is what led to this. But noone on the news will say that out loud.

more dems= more chances Thomas (and maybe others) may get the boot (Thomas shouldn't be even a regular judge tbh he's as corrupt as they come) they won't even enforce their own ethics code so a blue congress needs to do it for them

Arizona supreme court brings back 1864 Abortion ruling

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