The situation in Ukraine...

[Foxi4]

Hey look…Russia does not look like it’s in a good standing !

But Putin says it’s part of the plan

Putin has many options, but at this stage all of them are bad. He can’t retreat because he’ll look weak, he can’t ramp up the attack or he’ll look even more like an aggressor against a sovereign state and not a “defender of Donbas”, his historically revisionist persona. This was supposed to last a few days and end before the international community gets involved, now it’s looking more and more like he should be careful what he eats or drinks. I have a feeling there are certain subsets of the Kremlin that are devising an exit strategy at this point - for Putin, not for the war. It wouldn’t surprise me - the duma is more interested in the economy than in territorial conquest for the sake of stroking an ego. I’ve read that Putin’s very paranoid right now, and I’d be too - he knows, he’s former KGB. Nobody’s too big to “get disappeared”, so to speak. In Russia those rules don’t apply.

 

[appleburger]

Putin has many options, but at this stage all of them are bad. He can’t retreat because he’ll look weak, he can’t ramp up the attack or he’ll look even more like an aggressor against a sovereign state and not a “defender of Donbas”, his historically revisionist persona. This was supposed to last a few days and end before the international community gets involved, now it’s looking more and more like he should be careful what he eats or drinks. I have a feeling there are certain subsets of the Kremlin that are devising an exit strategy at this point - for Putin, not for the war. It wouldn’t surprise me - the duma is more interested in the economy than in territorial conquest for the sake of stroking an ego. I’ve read that Putin’s very paranoid right now, and I’d be too - he knows, he’s former KGB. Nobody’s too big to “get disappeared”, so to speak. In Russia those rules don’t apply.

I've been wondering about potential exit strategy's being developed, too. Do people think it's likely Russia could turn on Putin? I'm not well versed with world political history, so I personally don't know what options are/aren't likely, here.

 

[Xzi]

Russia is keen on using the instrument of force, not honey, to send soldiers into war zones they don’t want to be in.

The "honey," as you call it, is a big part of what gets militaries the outcomes they desire, and a big part of the reason this invasion has been such a colossal failure. It's the difference between sending your soldiers into battle with bulletproof vests and sending them into battle with multiple layers of t-shirts. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Russia has spent more on covering up their losses with cremation trucks than they have on their still-living forces. When your tenuous grip on power relies on nonstop propaganda, those efforts get expensive quick.

As for describing a former KGB agent as a right-winger, that’s comical.

Authoritarianism generally falls under the right-wing, and the West's sanctions couldn't have possibly had the effect they did on Russia's economy if it wasn't strictly capitalist. Let me know when Vladimir Putin relinquishes control of Russia's means of production to its working class, and then we can discuss how far left he's gone.

 

[djpannda]

Ok looks Russia is trying to make false flags to get Belarus an excuse… calling it now



…that or the BelaRus civil war has started

 

[Foxi4]

I've been wondering about potential exit strategy's being developed, too. Do people think it's likely Russia could turn on Putin? I'm not well versed with world political history, so I personally don't know what options are/aren't likely, here.

Russia has already turned on Putin, they’re arresting protesters in quadruple digits. Kremlin is not on his side either, and secret service informers have already stated that there’s a growing anti-Putin sentiment in the FSB - everyone’s on edge, including Putin himself. He’s surrounded by people who are sick of his shit. If he persists, it’s only a matter of time before the problem solved itself, and Putin knows this, which is why he’s always surrounded by an entourage of trusted muscle.

The "honey," as you call it, is a big part of what gets militaries the outcomes they desire, and a big part of the reason this invasion has been such a colossal failure. It's the difference between sending your soldiers into battle with bulletproof vests and sending them into battle with multiple layers of t-shirts. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Russia has spent more on covering up their losses with cremation trucks than they have on their still-living forces. When your tenuous grip on power relies on nonstop propaganda, those efforts get expensive quick.

Authoritarianism generally falls under the right-wing, and the West's sanctions couldn't have possibly had the effect they did on Russia's economy if it wasn't strictly capitalist. Let me know when Vladimir Putin relinquishes control of Russia's means of production to its working class, and then we can discuss how far left he's gone.

You’re obviously not very familiar with Russian military strategy over the years - it’s always been a meat grinder. A very outdated approach. As for authoritarianism, the political compass would like a word. It has nothing to do with whether you’re on the left or right, it has to do with the positioning of government versus its people.

 

[Xzi]

You’re obviously not very familiar with Russian military strategy over the years - it’s always been a meat grinder.

True, but where they might've used their dead as martyrs to inspire a sense of nationalistic pride in the past, now they're just pretending the losses aren't happening at all. Must be extremely demoralizing for those on the front lines to know that even their own mothers will be kept in the dark about their deaths for weeks, if not months.

As for authoritarianism, the political compass would like a word. It has nothing to do with whether you’re on the left or right, it has to do with the positioning of government versus its people.

Putin and his not-so-merry band of oligarchs gained the vast majority of their wealth and power through the private sector. Then they used those ill-gotten gains to take control of government. It's obvious his thinking aligns far more with the US/global right just based on the company he keeps, as well. The Kremlin isn't exactly blasting the Chapo Trap House podcast in every public space, but they have demanded that Russian TV networks feature Tucker Carlson more prominently.

 

[djpannda]

Ok update on the Belarus situation

A Belarus official (anti Russian) stated the planes and missiles launched from inside Belarus.. so this is either Russian False Flag or internal Civil war..

 

[Foxi4]

True, but where they might've used their dead as martyrs to inspire a sense of nationalistic pride in the past, now they're just pretending the losses aren't happening at all. Must be extremely demoralizing for those on the front lines to know that even their own mothers will be kept in the dark about their deaths for weeks, if not months.

Such is the mindset of a Soviet strategist - it really hasn’t changed much. Soldiers aren’t people, they’re always treated as assets.

Putin and his not-so-merry band of oligarchs gained the vast majority of their wealth and power through the private sector. Then they used those ill-gotten gains to take control of government. It's obvious his thinking aligns far more with the US/global right just based on the company he keeps, as well. The Kremlin isn't exactly blasting the Chapo Trap House podcast in every public space, but they have demanded that Russian TV networks feature Tucker Carlson more prominently.

Putin was put in a position of power by being an integral part of the previous political system in the first place. Neither him nor any of his associates would’ve had any wealth if not for those connections, all of which were forged under the communist system which is inherently based on a constant exchange of favours and quid pro quo. The corruption was brewed in the Soviet Union and poisoned the well from the start, not the other way around. Putin is very much red, just not red like the communist pamphlets and useful idiots would expect him to be. Anybody from the former Soviet bloc knows how those principles actually work in practice, and Putin is a product of those principles. In Poland we eliminated this problem by eliminating any relevant figures from the former state from public life, permanently - worked out better for us, it seems. We’ll never agree on this and you’ll never score any points on your theoretical knowledgeable because I have practical, first-hand experience, so we may as well end the exchange right here as far as right versus left is concerned, before you tell me that Stalin was a right-winger too.

 

[linuxares]

Since 2014 the Azov battalion has attacked the independence-declaring oblasts in the east. If you support Taiwan independence and American independence, I am sure you have sympathy for Lugansk and Donetsk.

No, no I don't.
Taiwan wanna be free from tyranny of the CCP.

Lugansk and Doneskt just wanna be Russian because Putin installed some puppets.

 

[Foxi4]

Lugansk and Doneskt are not states. They’ve never been states. There’s no history of that territory being anything other than Ukraine besides a brief period under Soviet occupation. If the Russian sympathisers living in Ukraine want to be Russians, they can move to Russia - they don’t get to seize land. Ukraine is perfectly justified in fighting insurgents - no sovereign state has to tolerate *a self-professed battalion* on their territory, especially if said battalion also professes allegiance to the enemy. As I said, there’s an easy fix for them - move. Shouldn’t be too hard.

 

[Xzi]

Putin was put in a position of power by being an integral part of the previous political system in the first place.

He was given the training and knowledge needed to seize power in the KGB, but it wasn't until the USSR fell that he was able to amass enough wealth and notoriety to execute the attack on his own people; which cemented that power via the demand for a false sense of security. He played and continues to play the exact same "strongman" role that every Republican presidential candidate since the 50s has.

Anybody from the former Soviet bloc knows how those principles actually work in practice, and Putin is a product of those principles.

One doesn't need to have experienced that to know exactly what those principles are. They're the same principles held by Elon Musk, the Koch brothers, and every other billionaire on the planet.

In Poland we eliminated this problem by eliminating any relevant figures from the former state from public life, permanently - worked out better for us, it seems.

Naturally. Corrupt oligarchs aren't gonna change their tune just because you give them a new economic system to bend to their will.

We’ll never agree on this and you’ll never score any points on your theory because I have practical, first-hand experience, so we may as well end the exchange right here as far as right versus left is concerned, before you tell me that Stalin was a right-winger too.

Stalin was a product of the authoritarian left, but that doesn't mean he can be considered a proper Socialist/Communist by the textbook definition of the word. And that's because he never truly redistributed anything, but instead concentrated as much wealth and power as possible into the hands of the fewest people possible.

 

[smf]

Since 2014 the Azov battalion has attacked the independence-declaring oblasts in the east.

You mean the soldiers that Russia organised and gave equipment?

And when Russia annexed Crimea and shot down Malaysia flight mh17.

Your argument might make sense if it had been peaceful and without violence, but Russia has literally been stealing parts of Ukraine since 2014.

WHAT TANK WARFARE? ITS NOT THE COLD WAR ANYMORE. Why do you believe NATO would invade Russia? You're eating too much Kremlin propaganda

Anyone who thinks NATO has any intention of invading Russia is not the full ticket.

NATO really only wants Russia to stop murdering women and children. Putin is obviously worried that it will cramp his style.

 

[Foxi4]

He was given the training and knowledge needed to seize power in the KGB, but it wasn't until the USSR fell that he was able to amass enough wealth and notoriety to execute the attack on his own people; which cemented that power via the demand for a false sense of security. He played and continues to play the exact same "strongman" role that every Republican presidential candidate since the 50s has.

One doesn't need to have experienced that to know exactly what those principles are. They're the same principles held by Elon Musk, the Koch brothers, and every other billionaire on the planet.

Naturally. Corrupt oligarchs aren't gonna change their tune just because you give them a new economic system to bend to their will.

Stalin was a product of the authoritarian left, but that doesn't mean he can be considered a proper Socialist/Communist by the textbook definition of the word. And that's because he never truly redistributed anything, but instead concentrated as much wealth and power as possible into the hands of the fewest people possible.

We’ve had this conversation a million times - the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand, and cannot understand. They find the proposed end point to be attractive, so much so that they fail to notice that the proposed path doesn’t lead to said end point, it invariably leads to an authoritarian nightmare. People on opposite ends of the aisle will always have this argument we’re having right now, until the end of time - communism sympathisers will always say that it was never truly tried and communist opponents will always say that it’s a system that failed every single time it attempted. Revolutions create power vacuums, and nature hates a vacuum - that empty space is always, invariably, filled in with the group that just did all of the revolting, and they’re never going to relinquish the power they seized because the supply of people not adequately adherent to the cause is never-ending when the goal posts can be moved as hoc. There is no step three after seizing the power from the state, but people infatuated with the idea of communism will never come to terms with that. If you’re under the impression that Putin was ever splitting a grain of rice to feed his family, you’re living in an alternate reality that’s not worth delving into.

 

[djpannda]

Ok update on the Belarus situation
.

Sorry bring it up again but yup it’s a Belarus coup … the opposition party releases a video claiming Belarus has become a puppet state and call Russian wars illegal,

Hopefully it takes in Belarus .. as it would cut off the Russians in the north of Kyiv and would push any chance of Russia to take over Kyiv unlikely any time soon

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

You mean the soldiers that Russia organised and gave equipment?

Yes, like the coup government in Kiev that NATO trained and equipped.

And when Russia annexed Crimea and shot down Malaysia flight mh17.

Assertion. I think it was shot down by a Ukrainian plane (it had what looked like bullets holes). And if it was shot down but a missile, it was most likely a separatist missile because they were afraid of bombing and did not have air superiority. I would not blame Kiev if they shot down a civil airplane right now by accident.

Your argument might make sense if it had been peaceful and without violence, but Russia has literally been stealing parts of Ukraine since 2014.

People in Eastern Ukraine thought their democracy had been stolen. They rejected the coup and Kiev immediately attacked them by organizing trains of bandits (e.g. killing people in Odessa).

Anyone who thinks NATO has any intention of invading Russia is not the full ticket.

NATO really only wants Russia to stop murdering women and children. Putin is obviously worried that it will cramp his style.

NATO does not want to invade Russia, I agree. But NATO has invaded many countries and Russia remembers the loss of tens of millions by the Western powers (and that Nazi Germany and the US had almost teamed up at the end eof WW2 to restart operation Barbarossa).

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

No, no I don't.
Taiwan wanna be free from tyranny of the CCP.

Lugansk and Doneskt just wanna be Russian because Putin installed some puppets.

Donetsk wanna be free from Kiev tyranny.
The leaders of the new-founded republics come from their respective oblasts. They are military leaders and often die for their cause.

 

[djpannda]

Donetsk wanna be free from Kiev tyranny.
The leaders of the new-founded republics come from their respective oblasts. They are military leaders and often die for their cause.

One word….. Tibet

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

One word….. Tibet

I am for the territorial integrity for China (including Taiwan and Tibet), Ukraine (including Donetsk and Lugansk) and Syria (including the large US-occupied oil fields). Are you?

In fact, the Tibet solution seems perfect for Ukraine: autonomy within the country. Too bad Kiev wants to shell them for 8 years instead.

 

[Xzi]

We’ve had this conversation a million times - the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand, and cannot understand.

I have no problem acknowledging that Communism is an imperfect system for that very reason, though you might as well be describing capitalism too. After all, the US still has people with a confederate mindset in government, law enforcement, and the private sector. Not to mention having one of its guiding principles, slavery, enshrined into the constitution. So it's as you say: those who gain power never want to relinquish it, even if that power centers around the necessity of owning human beings in the year 2022.

If you’re under the impression that Putin was ever splitting a grain of rice to feed his family, you’re living in an alternate reality that’s not worth delving into.

Obviously not, being a KGB agent meant Putin was always a part of the "in group." He never could've obtained the type of obscene wealth he has now without the assistance of the private sector, however, and therefore he couldn't have possibly obtained it without the collapse of the USSR.

 

[djpannda]

You must not be making much in tips this month. Why so bitter?

Edit: i just noticed that article is from 50 minutes ago. This is old news too. Have fun waiting tables forever.

Cool blurry unsourced Random screenshot..