Three Wuhan lab researchers were hospitalized in November 2019

[Darth Meteos]

Discourse is not shit. It's what helps people understand what's going on and crushes any conspiracy theories and people acting crazy based on that. You may not think it does nothing because some of the people you debate here are hard headed. But trust me these discourses are a good thing and many people do come to their senses from them even if you don't see or hear from them.

i am genuinely saying this: is there a language barrier here? you're understanding the broad strokes of my point, but you're not picking up on the nuance at all
you don't seem bad faith, is this a translation issue?

 

[SG854]

i am genuinely saying this: is there a language barrier here? you're understanding the broad strokes of my point, but you're not picking up on the nuance at all
you don't seem bad faith, is this a translation issue?

I had a hard time trying to understand what you were saying. I had to re-read what you said a couple trying to get what you were saying.

Unless you are direct with clear to understand writing I don't easily pick up on the gist of what you are saying. It's how I am.

 

[Darth Meteos]

I had a hard time trying to understand what you were saying. I had to re-read what you said a couple trying to get what you were saying.

Understood.
My position:

• I am in favor of any kind of research into the origins of COVID-19, but nothing concrete has been discovered yet.
• This thread in particular is filled with fearmongering and badly sourced evidence, and is- in my opinion- not a useful discussion, since there is no data available to decide the issue. We are speculating wildly based on partisan beliefs.
• I am opposed to engaging in this circular discussion with any kind of defensive move, because it makes a debate error called presupposing a frame. This means that it (the argument/point) inherently concedes a point. In this case, arguing where the virus came from is presupposing that the virus is the result of a containment leak, which has not been proven in any regard, and is a bad argument in this context.

 

[leon315]

but how american intelligence access chinese hospital records?
didn't Chinese media said same thing about USA claiming that during pre-pandemic era 2019-2020, there were 10s of thousands of american died at "mysterious flu" with pneumia?

 

[PiracyForTheMasses]

1. We don't know that the lab researchers had COVID-19.
2. We do know that COVID-19 might have been circulating around the Wuhan area earlier than previously thought, perhaps weeks/months earlier.

There's currently no reason to think SARS‑CoV‑2 came from a lab. All of the presently available evidence indicates it was naturally occurring.

Nice try. There is literally no evidence what so ever that indicates covid is naturally occurring. There is evidence that covid can be and has been created in a lab because it has already been recreated in a LAB. There is evidence that China and WHO have not been honest. There is evidence of China trying to blame other countries. There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons. Burden of proof rest on CCP and they have not proven anything.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons.

Are you referring to COVID19?

 

[Lacius]

Nice try. There is literally no evidence what so ever that indicates covid is naturally occurring. There is evidence that covid can be and has been created in a lab because it has already been recreated in a LAB. There is evidence that China and WHO have not been honest. There is evidence of China trying to blame other countries. There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons. Burden of proof rest on CCP and they have not proven anything.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim that the virus was artificially created. We have genetic evidence the virus arose zoonotically, and it's likely it occurred naturally. It could have happened outside a fish market, in the wild before being isolated in a lab, etc. We don't know for sure where it came from, but there's no evidence whatsoever it was intelligently designed.

 

[Seliph]

Liberals base their entire existence on biased science.

What the hell are you talking about???? Does this have something to do with the Doinya?

 

[DoubleDate]

I can understand that people are skeptical about it, but its has indeed been proved that Covid did not originate naturally, its has been created manually, no connection to bats or anything of that form. People are been fooled, i in no way believe that the whole thing just came from "Bats" People in China have been eating bats for ages and suddendly Covid rises up from people just eating it? Its disgusting to eats those creatures, but it has been happening for many years.

China has been doing a lot of cover up. There is something about a lady who was the first one to have Covid symptoms, was diagnosed before the whole thing was known into the world, and China lied about it. As i commented in earlier post, China will never admit it nor let people investigate.

 

[notimp]

It's the obvious bias and narrative they're trying to spin that's the big issue here. Everybody else is only reporting that some researchers fell sick in November, which on its own means a whole lot of nothing. But how does Daily Mail report it? "We have PROOF that COVID DEFINITELY ORIGINATED from this LAB in WUHAN!!1" Sensationalist horseshit.

Tentatively agree. See:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-med...r-the-coronavirus.559721/page-26#post-9471901

Channels that first pushed it in my country were pro US sources in that paper. That was about a week or so, before the US health minister made the public plea for "further investigation".

Scientific stance right before that had been at "a few prominent voices argue for not ruling the lab theory out" - which came down to two scientists of somewhat international renown and no one else. After the media blitz, new info actually pointing into the direction of the lab theory, was exactly zero - scientists got sick was a human interest story, and also nothing new afair. So you had a pretty coordinated media operation, with nothing that would drive one on its own ("newsworthyness").

This screams foreign (or domestic?) policy move to me - regardless of if true or not -- which obviously will be very hard to impossible to find out. Yet the US secretary of health pointed at the need to find out. Which also is odd - because chances are, that we will not. In any case.

 

[Lacius]

I can understand that people are skeptical about it, but its has indeed been proved that Covid did not originate naturally, its has been created manually, no connection to bats or anything of that form.

None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.

 

[DoubleDate]

None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.

Well then, the people who was on the news today who said that are liars then. The US is also meddling into the whole thing, Biden ordered an "unexaminated data" to be examinated with super computers to see where the virus originated from. If it was naturally why would Biden even consider that option? Its because researchers found that its origin was not something from the wild.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Bioweapons? They are there, and the public will never know about it.

 

[Lacius]

Well then, the people who was on the news today who said that are liars then.

If they said the virus was artificially created, and we have proof it was, and we have evidence it wasn't naturally occurring, then yes, they are liars.

The US is also meddling into the whole thing, Biden ordered an "unexaminated data" to be examinated with super computers to see where the virus originated from. If it was naturally why would Biden even consider that option? Its because researchers found that its origin was not something from the wild.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Bioweapons? They are there, and the public will never know about it.

We are not 100% sure where it originated, there's more doubt than ever where it originated, and it is entirely possible that the spread started with the lab. It is important we find out to the best of our ability how and where it originated.

Personally, I believe there is a decent likelihood the virus spread from the lab, but this is also a lab that routinely isolates naturally occurring viruses. It could be COVID-19 occurred naturally, was isolated, and then there was a contamination that was covered up. However, I think it is equally likely this naturally occurring virus started elsewhere and made its way to people who worked in the lab later. We know it was probably circulating around the area weeks or more before we knew about it, and that's in line with what was reported about the hospitalizations of people who worked at the lab.

In summary, there is no evidence the virus was artificially created, there is genetic evidence it originated in bats, and there's confusion about where and when it originated before it became widespread.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe.
Did Floyd die from an drug overdose or a knee on the kneck?
Is global warming mainly caused by humans or not?
Are homosexuals born with their orientation?
Is race genetic?
Can one become a woman despite having a male body or not?
...
I can tell you how most of you would answer if just told me one info about yourselves.
Predictable robots. COVID19 is just one more example.

 

[Lacius]

The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe.
Did Floyd die from an drug overdose or a knee on the kneck?
Is global warming mainly caused by humans or not?
Are homosexuals born with their orientation?
Is race genetic?
Can one become a woman despite having a male body or not?
...
I can tell you how most of you would answer if just told me one info about yourselves.
Predictable robots. COVID19 is just one more example.

1. Floyd died from a knee on his neck. He objectively wouldn't have died without it, regardless of contributing factors.
2. Global warming is happening as a direct consequence of humans burning fossil fuels and releasing other greenhouse gases.
3. Homosexuality is an immutable characteristic, and there appears to be a biological component that makes one more or less likely to be homosexual.
4. Gender is an identity, unlike sex. A person can have a male sex and a female gender.

These are all objective facts.

 

[Deleted member 535703]

@UltraDolphinRevolution
Dude.
"The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe."
HAHA!
Factual bullsh*t.

Human nature is believing things you want to believe. Researchers like me who examine things heavily still have an opinion on things they want to believe. Why? We're human.

I can answer those questions simply. With scientific answers.

1. Knee. Autopsy confirmed here. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...george-floyd-s-death-homicide-blames-n1263670
2. Called climate change mate. Places are getting colder too. Human carbon emission has increased the speed, so yes. But the Earth has changed like this for million of years, so no.
3. No. Disproven here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/are-straight-people-born-that-way/254592/
4. Yes, partially, bust mostly evolutionary. Humans evolved to the climates, ecosystems, and environments they were in.
5. Yes. Hormonal transfers.

You better disprove your IQ being lower than room temperature.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I am not going to respond for the sake of not rerailing this thread.

 

[SG854]

If they said the virus was artificially created, and we have proof it was, and we have evidence it wasn't naturally occurring, then yes, they are liars.


We are not 100% sure where it originated, there's more doubt than ever where it originated, and it is entirely possible that the spread started with the lab. It is important we find out to the best of our ability how and where it originated.

Personally, I believe there is a decent likelihood the virus spread from the lab, but this is also a lab that routinely isolates naturally occurring viruses. It could be COVID-19 occurred naturally, was isolated, and then there was a contamination that was covered up. However, I think it is equally likely this naturally occurring virus started elsewhere and made its way to people who worked in the lab later. We know it was probably circulating around the area weeks or more before we knew about it, and that's in line with what was reported about the hospitalizations of people who worked at the lab.

In summary, there is no evidence the virus was artificially created, there is genetic evidence it originated in bats, and there's confusion about where and when it originated before it became widespread.

You are right about the cover up

It was weird that for 1 yr the WHO wasn't allowed in the Wuhan labs to investigate anything.

It's also weird that they were ruling out a lab leak as a possibility before they even did an investigation in the lab.


And do you think the CCP will tell the WHO the truth? There has been times when they tried to do an investigation and the ccp would always try to divert attention to something else. Like sending them to museums instead of the lab. Museums that talks about the ccp's success stories.


Also the Who said, after an investigation by Chinese authorities there is no clear evidence of Human to Human transmission of the novel corona virus, back in January of 2020.

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG

— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020

In January 1st the Chinese government arrested 8 people for talking about the virus. The government said it was to Crack down on rumors. But the rumors they were being punished for were that the virus existed and that it can infect people.


In January 14 Media that reported the cases in Wuhan were arrested and had their cameras searched for any information about the disease.


Chinese Gov. were clearly trying to cover it up.

 

[SG854]

They even got a Dr. to sign a letter to admit rumor mongering about the virus. Lots of censorship in China.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/02/asia/china-wuhan-covid-truthtellers-intl-hnk-dst/

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Chinese Gov. were clearly trying to cover it up.

What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem. There is elitism and China and Western countries (like Fauci telling the US population that masks do not work so that people do not horde them).