Gaming Wii 480p Video Bug Discovered

[Alexander1970]

Extrems, creator of the Game Boy Interface software, as well as contributor to the GameCube homebrew Swiss has just made a pretty amazing discovery! Apparently, there’s a problem with the original Nintendo Revolution SDK that effects every piece of 480p software ever released on the Wii.

https://www.retrorgb.com/wii-480p-video-bug-discovered.html


In the latest Not64 update, Extrems fixed a bug that resulted in poorer image quality when the 480p video mode is set on the Wii.

Spoiler: Warning a LOT to READ:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1361158&sid=207dcf07498274e747f3e1c2fd5dab67#p1361158

Due to the architecture of the Wii, the problem will not be solved in official software - but in libogc. Extrems has already submitted a fix; then only all homebrews would have to be recompiled. This is particularly problematic for very old applications, since the new libogc versions have many incompatibilities.

source: https://wiidatabase.de/wii-fehler-mit-dem-480p-videomodus-entdeckt/
(german)

 

[tswntk]

Due to the architecture of the Wii, the problem will not be solved in official software - but in libogc.

that means Wii games, backup loaders will not be benefited in game?

 

[AkikoKumagara]

I'm more intrigued by whether this means there will be a way, in software, to force native 480p games to look better. Has no one been able to confirm or deny this?

 

[Extrems]

There certainly are ways, but that's not up to me to implement.

 

[leseratte]

I made a cheat code for Mario Kart Wii implementing this change ( http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/User:Leseratte#480p_graphics_fix ), with a bit of extra work it'd most likely be possible to make it a generic patch for all games.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

I made a cheat code for Mario Kart Wii implementing this change ( http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/User:Leseratte#480p_graphics_fix ), with a bit of extra work it'd most likely be possible to make it a generic patch for all games.

It seems your code may not be doing anything according to some replies here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/usb-loader-gx-480p-fix.536672/
Have you ensured it is working on your own hardware? I have tested it and seen no noticeable change between running with or without the code (running Y/Pb/Pr through 3rd party component cables).

 

[leseratte]

I haven't tested it on console (I currently don't have 480p display cables). Multiple people tested it and some say it looks better, some say it looks the same. Maybe it depends on other factors? Wii/WiiU, type of television (doing extra image processing), whatever?

 

[Extrems]

There's an increasing amount of evidence this was fixed in hardware on RVL-CPU-40+.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

There's an increasing amount of evidence this was fixed in hardware on RVL-CPU-40+.

If this is indeed the case, this would explain why this happened:

I have tested it and seen no noticeable change between running with or without the code (running Y/Pb/Pr through 3rd party component cables).

I'm on an RVL-CPU-60 apparently. This may also explain while 480P never looked amazing on my console (though some of the blame for this probably goes to my crappy TV panel as well), I've never thought it to look really bad either.

 

[Maeson]

I remember reading about some Wii consoles with "better image quality" a year or two ago on the shmups forum, and how these better systems were made as soon as November 2010 if we're talking about GC-Supported Wii, and as Extrems says, fall on the revisions RVL-CPU 40, RVL-CPU-50 (very rare it seems) and RVL-60 (and of course Wii Family Editions and Mini, which are really not worth your time in my opinion). There were other improvements too, but this one was the most interesting find, since then I've been searching off and on about this.

It's what made me check my own console and it's a RVL-60 (unless there's a difference between RVL-60 from NTSC-US and PAL I suppose), so I guess I won't notice anything about it, which is kinda disappointing personally as I was very interested in this, but on the other hand if this could be implemented in some way, many people with earlier systems could benefit from it.

It would be quite funny if both of these things ended up being one and the same.

This may also explain while 480P never looked amazing on my console (though some of the blame for this probably goes to my crappy TV panel as well), I've never thought it to look really bad either.

Yeah, the display and how good is the internal upscaler is quite important for old systems. I'd really like what type modern display would be the most recommended for Wii. CRTs are getting harder and harder to get in my country, specially in good shape.

 

[Draxikor]

Yeah, the display and how good is the internal upscaler is quite important for old systems. I'd really like what type modern display would be the most recommended for Wii. CRTs are getting harder and harder to get in my country, specially in good shape.

The better display are PVM and EDTV but like you say they are CRT and become very expensive, i'm looking for a screen compatible with the OSSC and the TCL tvs looks good for upscaling 480p content but it can't properly display 240p, i avoid OLED the burning risk is annoying and they are too expensive.

 

[Maeson]

Yeah... Putting aside retro gaming, TVs have been getting off my nerves somewhat since the jump to flat screens. Early on it was the horrible ghosting and awful refresh rate compared to CRTs (well, you still get that with many displays nowadays), having poor scalers or terrible lag, and now TV makers are hell-bent into forcing consumers to buy gigantic TVs, or trying to push cheaper Smart TVs that will have ridiculously short support (this very day Twitch stopped support for these things) and will end up being a waste.

One day I must study all this crap and find a good display for these things, although I fear the best option is to pony up for one of those external upscalers such as the OSSC (which, mind you, can do really nice work, but they can also get pretty expensive and you still need a good TV to pair that up with).

Sigh...

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

Does any of this effect wii games on wii U?

 

[Ryccardo]

Does any of this effect wii games on wii U?

The Vwii is supposed to already have a workaround, though there is a separate debate on the quality of its upscaler

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

The Vwii is supposed to already have a workaround, though there is a separate debate on the quality of its upscaler

nintendo and upscalers just don't work together. Gameboy player using 480P, those playable nes games on gamecube, YIKES!

Was virtual console actually good upscaled on wii? Or can I laugh because they actually had a hidden command to force 240P in some games that was incompatible in 480P?

Does WII U even have true 1080P, is it upscaling lower resolution to higher ones? What the heck is going on with nintendo's video configurations.

 

[Ryccardo]

Was virtual console actually good upscaled on wii? Or can I laugh because they actually had a hidden command to force 240P in some games that was incompatible in 480P?

No, it runs in native video mode (with many but not all emulators - remember every single game comes with its copy of the emulator - having the button combo to force interlacing because cheap but also expensive shit not everything accepts 240 via YPbPr)

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

No, it runs in native video mode (with many but not all emulators - remember every single game comes with its copy of the emulator - having the button combo to force interlacing because cheap but also expensive shit not everything accepts 240 via YPbPr)

So basically nintendo doesn't have good upscaling on their systems, like the Gameboy player.

 

[Maeson]

The Wii's Virtual Console was a very respectable effort for its time... If you overlook Nintendo's astronomical fuck up of releasing 50Hz games in PAL territories (being boneheaded is and understatement). Specially if we remember that the thing is from 2006, which is not only a long a go, but also a time where there was a big chaotic mess for displays. LCD screens started to become more accessible to the average consumer, yet many people still used CRTs. You couldn't force a video option even if it was the best intended thing for said game because you needed to think that not everyone was going to play with the same display and in fact many LCDs didn't even support 240P. Heck, many "modern" displays back then in Europe couldn't even work with PAL 50hz VC games. What a messy time for TVs...

At least I can say that I'm glad that since then things have standardized for global use.

Besides, the Wii was a very accessible entry for retro gaming, a "world" that can certainly get rather expensive, and the amount of good games it managed to have is great too, not to mention having all them in a single machine that didn't took much space. Also, N64 games were rendered in 480P instead of 240P, and they looked way better than on original hardware. I played Pokémon snap and Mario 64 a few months ago the difference is pretty big, they looked so much more cleaner.

And it offered 240P Support for quite a few games. Every single NES, SNES, Master System, Mega Drive and Neo Geo game did support it, they only stumbled with TurboGrafx-16 games and some Arcade releases.

If 8-16 Bit games were played on 240P, they looked very similar to the real thing too:
https://www.retrorgb.com/wiivsclassic.html

You can also look for old posts in the shmups forum and they'll also say that it looked pretty great for what it is. Of course, nowadays we can get better picture quality with, I don't know, Retro Arch while still playing on 480P, but to be honest it was the first attempt to do such a thing and I can applaud that.

With that said, they did overall a pretty poor job with Wii U's Virtual Console, though, which is weird seeing as they already did a lot of footwork with the Wii. But it wasn't the only thing mismanaged with it...

 

[the_randomizer]

Oh Nintendo, can't even properly program their own SDKs

 

[Draxikor]

Maese jesus
The TCL 2018 tvs have the best input lag, also the Samsung tvs from last year are great too but expensive, i don't like Smart features seems dumb for me if you hace a PC already, ill buy a 55" screen just because the best picture quality is somehow exclusivo to that sizes, i'll prefer a 32".
I agree with you the first plasmas look good but have image retention, then lcd apear but can't handle 240p, LED appear great but FullHD is just 40" and above, then 60fps etc. I will be fine with a screen that can handle all my retro consoles and show a good fullHD content