Someone pls explain why Democrats don't want ICE contacted if illegal aliens attempt to buy guns

[Hanafuda]

https://www.floridadaily.com/democr...-ice-when-illegal-immigrants-try-to-buy-guns/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de...gal-immigrants-fail-firearm-background-checks


The news articles are rather focused on the illegal alien issue, but actually the amendment was not just to contact ICE when an illegal alien attempted to buy a gun, but to contact law enforcement when any background check was rejected.

Attempting to purchase a gun when you're prohibited by law or by submitting a false 4473 form to a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) is a crime, so law enforcement should be alerted, right? Well, Democrats in the House Judiciary Committee voted to kill that amendment to their "Bipartisan Background Checks Act."

Do they really want their gun control legislation to result in catching criminals, or do they just want control over everyone else?

Also, why hasn't CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, etc reported this story? It is newsworthy, isn't it???

 

[RaptorDMG]

I agree that police should be notified when someone tries to buy a gun when they're not allowed although I still don't get why Americans need to have guns in the first place

 

[Lacius]

Why would Democrats approve a poison pill measure that does nothing to reduce gun violence?

This is a nonstory that only exists to rile up one's right-wing uncle.

 

[Hanafuda]

Why would Democrats approve a poison pill measure that does nothing to reduce gun violence?

This is a nonstory that only exists to rile up one's right-wing uncle.

Law enforcement notification in the event of a crime is a poison pill? Poison to which party?

Also, does nothing to reduce gun violence? Why wouldn't incarcerating people who make illegal attempts to buy guns reduce gun violence?

 

[RaptorDMG]

Law enforcement notification in the event of a crime is a poison pill? Poison to which party?

Also, does nothing to reduce gun violence? Why wouldn't incarcerating people who make illegal attempts to buy guns reduce gun violence?

If they know they can't legally get a gun they'd likely turn to illegal means instead

 

[Hanafuda]

If they know they can't legally get a gun they'd likely turn to illegal means instead

It's already a crime for a convicted felon, domestic violence offenders, addicts, and persons adjudicated mentally ill to attempt to purchase or to possess firearms or ammunition. Likewise if a person lies about any of these things while attempting to purchase. Problem is, when the background check fails, they can just walk out of the shop. There's no means of enforcement in the current law.

 

[Lacius]

Law enforcement notification in the event of a crime is a poison pill? Poison to which party?

Also, does nothing to reduce gun violence? Why wouldn't incarcerating people who make illegal attempts to buy guns reduce gun violence?

ICE and deportations don't have anything to do with keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. It's not complicated.

It's an anti-immigrant measure, not an anti-gun violence measure.

 

[RaptorDMG]

ICE and deportations don't have anything to do with keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. It's not complicated.

It's an anti-immigrant measure, not an anti-gun violence measure.

If they are an illegal immigrant and are found out by law enforcement they should be sent back otherwise what's the point in having a legal process to become a citizen in the first place

 

[IncredulousP]

It's already a crime for a convicted felon, domestic violence offenders, addicts, and persons adjudicated mentally ill to attempt to purchase or to possess firearms or ammunition. Likewise if a person lies about any of these things while attempting to purchase. Problem is, when the background check fails, they can just walk out of the shop. There's no means of enforcement in the current law.

They try to buy a gun. They volunteer for background check. They get denied based on background check. They don't buy gun. Where had the law been broken? Why do we need to augment authoritarian powers like noncrime reporting?

 

[Lacius]

If they are an illegal immigrant and are found out by law enforcement they should be sent back otherwise what's the point in having a legal process to become a citizen in the first place

We barely have a legal immigration system, and don't act like Trump wants it to exist either.

Also, regardless of how one feels about it, it's controversial and a poison pill. Nobody should act indignant about this.

 

[Hanafuda]

ICE and deportations don't have anything to do with keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. It's not complicated.

No, it's not complicated. They're committing a felony. So deport them. If they're legal residents/citizens, prosecute them.

Unfortunately, this particular crime is committed over 100,000 times a year with few consequences.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-during-background-checks-charged/1213216002/

They try to buy a gun. They volunteer for background check. They get denied based on background check. They don't buy gun. Where had the law been broken? Why do we need to augment authoritarian powers like noncrime reporting?

Attempting to purchase a gun when you're a 'prohibited person' by providing false info is a crime. Legal residents can purchase firearms, but illegal/undocumented cannot.

 

[blahblah]

Take this right wing dreck to another site.

 

[Lacius]

No, it's not complicated. They're committing a felony. So deport them. If they're legal residents/citizens, prosecute them.

Unfortunately, this particular crime is committed over 100,000 times a year with few consequences.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-during-background-checks-charged/1213216002/

I love that whenever we have a conversation, you refuse to acknowledged or concede the points I make. This measure doesn't affect gun safety, regardless of how you feel about immigration. See above where I also tell you not to act indignant. It's controversial, which alone makes it a poison pill.

In addition, this can arguably include people who simply fail a background check, and a person shouldn't be deported for that, IMO.

 

[Tigran]

And yet most Mass shooters are white legal residents.

 

[Hanafuda]

I love that whenever we have a conversation, you refuse to acknowledged or concede the points I make. This measure doesn't affect gun safety, regardless of how you feel about immigration. See above where I also tell you not to act indignant. It's controversial, which alone makes it a poison pill.

The immigration angle is the media's spin on this. The amendment is to require FFL's to notify law enforcement when the crime occurs. Doesn't matter whether it's a citizen, legal resident, or illegal. If they're prohibited and they attempt to purchase, it's a crime. It occurs over 100,000 times a year, little is done about it. You think prosecuting those people - people who lie in a attempt to buy a gun, knowing they're not allowed - would have no effect on gun crime?? Then why bother with a 'Background Check" law in the first place?

 

[Lacius]

The immigration angle is the media's spin on this. The amendment is to require FFL's to notify law enforcement when the crime occurs. Doesn't matter whether it's a citizen, legal resident, or illegal. If they're prohibited and they attempt to purchase, it's a crime. It occurs over 100,000 times a year, little is done about it. You think prosecuting those people - people who lie in a attempt to buy a gun, knowing they're not allowed - would have no effect on gun crime?? Then why bother with a 'Background Check" law in the first place?

Immigration is the reason for the amendment. Don't be disingenuous.

 

[Hanafuda]

And yet most Mass shooters are white legal residents.

You're pretty well off-topic, but the demographics of 'mass shooters' isn't that different from the population distribution*, i.e. about 70% of the USA population is caucasian, so it follows that the majority of 'mass shooters' would also be caucasian. Almost all murderers in Japan are Japanese. "Mass shooters" account for a very small percentage of gun deaths, anyway. Want to talk about the demographics for gun crime generally? Make a thread.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

 

[Tigran]

I think it fits perfectly well in this thread, your opinion that it doesn't is actually not relevant. If a mod thinks it does not belong, THEN it is relevant, or if other people ignore my opinion then it's irrelevant. But your opinion matters not.

 

[Hanafuda]

Take this right wing dreck to another site.

Nice argument.

Immigration is the reason for the amendment. Don't be disingenuous.

I don't have any information that says that, and neither do you. It's just your assumption. But even if so, so what? It isn't going to specifically target illegals, the majority of times this offense is committed it's a convicted felon or person with a domestic violence conviction who lies by saying their record is clean.

 

[PanTheFaun]

I agree that police should be notified when someone tries to buy a gun when they're not allowed although I still don't get why Americans need to have guns in the first place

We have guns to protect ourselves from criminals and a tyrannical government.