Hacking Discussion Switch sx os counter points

[Deleted User]

The goal of this post is to stop responses that are flawed. So everyone can get past these flame wars. My goal is not to say what is the superior cfw. Custom firmware elitism is retarded. And every opinion is open to criticism. And I'm going to call it out. But there is a lot of TX elitists out there within this comminuty. I wish to bring some actual reasoning. And actual discussion, instead of SX OS IS BETTER THAN ATMOSPHERE BOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIS
And turn it into more of SX os is better than atmosphere because xxx reason
And by showing counter points, hopefully we will never have to argue the same crap over and over with multiple different people.

"Why do you care about them stealing code? It's open sourced it doesn't matter"
Counter point: atmosphere and a lot of these open sourced projects follow GPL2.0 which is in a way, a license. One of the rules of GPL is that you must credit the creator. TX didn't do that.
"Well Team Xecutor was first to release and first complete cfw, so atmosphere babies lose. Tx is superior in every way."
I've heard a lot these responses. Let me break it down.
SX os has one advantage over every other cfw, a small advantage I might add. (maybe it's a big advantage to some of you)
And that's xci loading. To get xci loading to work, they already needed to have signpatches working.
Now let's break down the first bit. And this is fact and well known at this point. But Sx os has stolen code from atmosphere. Which in turn, breaks the idea SX OS is complete.
To briefly explain, because atmosphere is incomplete, and SX OS is based on atmosphere, it is therefore incomplete, being it's base, it's infrastructure is from a project that is still in beta.
Also let's talk about "releases."
I'm getting really tired of this. Release does not mean complete. It just means it's own in some form. So no, SX OS isn't "complete" however completeness can be subjective. Just know there is evidence that leans towards it being incomplete. Which kind of ruins the idea that SX OS is THE COMPLETE CFW.
And finally the fact that SX OS came out first. Which is true, except, a release is just everything packed into a nice bow tie. So really you could argue that atmosphere was out, first or (put any cfw here)
"You pirate games but when you see someone steal someones work, that crosses the line? Hypocrite much"
Now this is more of a more personal moral question. However I can see a lot of people having the same moral feeling about this.
To explain, I personally try to avoid piracy. (all though still do sometimes)
However, what makes the difference. Is the fact I acknowledge that it's not my work, and the person proving the Backup knows it's not their own work either. But what cannot be stood for is when that person providing the backup claims it's their own work. That they made that game. I think that's where many of us draw the line.
"SX OS is worth every dollar. And is far easier than the other cfws"
This is argument is painfully flawed. First of, worth is subjective. However something does has less value when it is able be obtained free. And even more less value when it is easily usable. Which leads to my next point, Setting up sx os, and atmosphere, hekate, (put cfw here)

None of them are all that different. Infact, I would say they are as easy to set up as SX OS.
SX OS requires you (non pro version, no dongle. BASE ONLY.) to put a switch into rcm mode. And use a payload and it's launcher to inject said payload. And have some files on the sd card.
All the community driven cfw's are the same and follow nearly identical procedures. Drag and drop files to micro sd card. Have a switch in rcm mode. And use Tegrarcmsmashgui (Gui is user friendly.)

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
First point is easily countered with the network installer.
Second point, we don't know enough about the switch still. XCI's could be just as dangerous as NSPs. Especially since XCI's have a cert. A cert is essentially a ticket to go online, a ticket unique to that game cart. If Nintendo, (perhaps in 6.0 update) began checking carts while being online, (switch being online, not joining a game online) and saw multiple certs being used at the same time. They would likely ban you. Safest option for both is to not go online. And with what I have seen. Often or not the digital format wins, given 3ds and wiiu scenes.
I'll be making a switch atmosphere/community counter points soon as well. But here is the SX OS edition.

Play nice, and if you got a opinion, state your reasoning behind it. And I mean thoughtful reasoning. Don't go attacking the person directly, attack the opinion, not them.
Follow up thread. https://gbatemp.net/threads/switch-community-cfw-counter-points.517041/

 

[Kubas_inko]

"You pirate games ..."

This sadly depends on the country. In the Czech Republic (always have to mention it ), pirating = copying (downloading) and sharing. So if you just download the game for your own use (from a third party/legal source), with no intention of sharing it, it is legal, thus you are not pirating anything.
Which means I can download how many games I want, if it is from "legal" source, it is just downloading.

 

[nikeymikey]

Wow! That’s a wall of text just to say I hate TX

Good points there but I’ll stick to SX cos it is an easy all in one solution for my kids to play their games.

 

[Deleted User]

This sadly depends on the country. In the Czech Republic (always have to mention it ), pirating = copying (downloading) and sharing. So if you just download the game for your own use (from a third party/legal source), with no intention of sharing it, it is legal, thus you are not pirating anything.
Which means I can download how many games I want, if it is from "legal" source, it is just downloading.

It is flawed, but blind supporters of SX OS, would use a argument like that to say how retarded atmosphere is.

Wow! That’s a wall of text just to say I hate TX

Good points there but I’ll stick to SX cos it is an easy all in one solution for my kids to play their games.

You’re like politicians, don’t understand sarcasm

Well it's difficult to have sarcasm in text. So might be better to state what you actually think.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

The goal of this post is to stop responses that are flawed. So everyone can get past these flame wars. My goal is not to say what is the superior cfw..

you've already made it clear your no fan of SX in many of your previous posts.

 

[Deleted User]

you've already made it clear your no fan of SX in many of your previous posts.

It's true, I don't, but also doesn't mean I can't drop my biases and look at things with a more subjective lens. why do you think I'm creating at atmosphere version of this? both sides are flawed.

 

[xtrem3x]

It's true, I don't, but also doesn't mean I can't drop my biases and look at things with a more subjective lens. why do you think I'm creating at atmosphere version of this? both sides are flawed.

That's not what you've done here.
You've portrayed everybody who likes SX OS in a very stereo typical way that only haters see them as.

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
Comments like this just show how 1 sided your view is and how you are not willing to see it from each perspective. It's almost as if you feel you can see both views simply because you're able to write a wall of text, when in fact the whole purpose of this thread is for you to whine.

I'll use myself as an example of how to be open and unbiased.

I have the SO OX because I leave for work at 5am every morning and get home at roughly 6pm. I am tired when I get home so don't want to be researching all the different ways to play backups. On top of this, the main person who plays my Switch is my daughter so I need something that she can easily use. Every now and then I go onto the SX website, download the updated .bin and swap it on the SD card. Simples...

I am not against atmosphere and when it is released if I have time off I will probably dabble with it. Where possible I will use open source solutions, I like them, have supported them in the past for other consoles and feel that is the way forward. I am unhappy about any stolen code in SX but at the end of the day having a nice all in 1 solution fits with what I needed.

Myself and many others here use SX OS because it fits with their needs, not because they hate other CFW. Saying somebody hates any CFW over another is just ridiculous and childish, I doubt any of the SX users here are against Atmosphere. It seems to me that people who don't use SX OS have a stick up their arse because all I see is them complaining and spouting off information that everybody already knows. If a CFW does the job then that's it, end of story. It really doesn't matter to 99% people which CFW they use as long as it works and does what they need.

Now please, stop filling each SX OS update thread with spam. People like myself need to check these threads and make sure the updates work correctly and spamming them with useless repeated rhetoric doesn't help.

Thank you.

 

[Deleted User]

That's not what you've done here.
You've portrayed everybody who likes SX OS in a very stereo typical way that only haters see them as.

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
Comments like this just show how 1 sided your view is and how you are not willing to see it from each perspective. It's almost as if you feel you can see both views simply because you're able to write a wall of text, when in fact all the whole purpose of this thread is for you to whine.

I'll use myself as an example of how to be open and unbiased.

I have the SO OX because I leave for work at 5am every morning and get home at roughly 6pm. I am tired when I get home so don't want to be researching all the different ways to play backups. On top of this, the main person who plays my Switch is my daughter so I need something that she can easily use. Every now and then I go onto the SX website, download the updated .bin and swap it on the SD card. Simples...

I am not against atmosphere and when it is released if I have time off I will probably dabble with it. Where possible I will use open source solutions, I like them, have supported them in the past for other consoles and feel that is the way forward. I am unhappy about any stolen code in SX but at the end of the day having a nice all in 1 solution fits with what I needed.

Myself and many others here use SX OS because it fits with their needs, not because they hate other CFW. Saying somebody hates any CFW over another is just ridiculous and childish, I doubt any of the SX users here are against Atmosphere. It seems to me that people who don't use SX OS have a stick up their arse because all I see is them complaining and spouting off information that everybody already knows. If a CFW does the job then that's it, end of story. It really doesn't matter to 99% people which CFW they use as long as it works and does what they need.

Now please, stop filling each SX OS update thread with spam. People like myself need to check these threads and make sure the updates work correctly and spamming them with useless repeated rhetoric.

Thank you.

Again, ignoring me. You likely didn't read the bottom. The other side is coming soon as it's own thread, It's intentionally stereotypical. And I had that point written down for the other thread.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

That's not what you've done here.
You've portrayed everybody who likes SX OS in a very stereo typical way that only haters see them as.

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
Comments like this just show how 1 sided your view is and how you are not willing to see it from each perspective. It's almost as if you feel you can see both views simply because you're able to write a wall of text, when in fact the whole purpose of this thread is for you to whine.

I'll use myself as an example of how to be open and unbiased.

I have the SO OX because I leave for work at 5am every morning and get home at roughly 6pm. I am tired when I get home so don't want to be researching all the different ways to play backups. On top of this, the main person who plays my Switch is my daughter so I need something that she can easily use. Every now and then I go onto the SX website, download the updated .bin and swap it on the SD card. Simples...

I am not against atmosphere and when it is released if I have time off I will probably dabble with it. Where possible I will use open source solutions, I like them, have supported them in the past for other consoles and feel that is the way forward. I am unhappy about any stolen code in SX but at the end of the day having a nice all in 1 solution fits with what I needed.

Myself and many others here use SX OS because it fits with their needs, not because they hate other CFW. Saying somebody hates any CFW over another is just ridiculous and childish, I doubt any of the SX users here are against Atmosphere. It seems to me that people who don't use SX OS have a stick up their arse because all I see is them complaining and spouting off information that everybody already knows. If a CFW does the job then that's it, end of story. It really doesn't matter to 99% people which CFW they use as long as it works and does what they need.

Now please, stop filling each SX OS update thread with spam. People like myself need to check these threads and make sure the updates work correctly and spamming them with useless repeated rhetoric.

Thank you.

I couldn't agree more, good post, I dont have a problem with Atmos or ReiNX, in fact I've thanked Rei a few times on here.

 

[Slimmmmmm]

I don't get paid enough to read that badly formatted wall of text...

Skimming it though I see that the purpose is to stop the same things getting said over and over. This wont happen, you can't guarantee everyone reads everything on this site, especially such poorly laid out posts that are a lot longer than need be.

I suppose a well laid out and well planned SX - Pros VS Cons thread could be good if kept updated

 

[Deleted User]

I don't get paid enough to read that badly formatted wall of text...

Skimming it though I see that the purpose is to stop the same things getting said over and over. This wont happen, you can't guarantee everyone reads everything on this site, especially such poorly laid out posts that are a lot longer than need be.

I suppose a well laid out and well planned SX - Pros VS Cons thread could be good if kept updated

I couldn't agree more, good post, I dont have a problem with Atmos or ReiNX, in fact I've thanked Rei a few times on here.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/switch-community-cfw-counter-points.517041/
Was trying to write. But since I got complains before I could even finish writing. Here is my incomplete page for Atmosphere.

 

[huma_dawii]

SX OS is better because of XCI loading, I have no other reason for it.

 

[Slimmmmmm]

@monkeyman4412 There was no point in quoting me that I can see, your reply makes no sense.

 

[guitarheroknight]

The goal of this post is to stop responses that are flawed. So everyone can get past these flame wars. My goal is not to say what is the superior cfw. Custom firmware elitism is retarded. And every opinion is open to criticism. And I'm going to call it out. But there is a lot of TX elitists out there within this comminuty. I wish to bring some actual reasoning. And actual discussion, instead of SX OS IS BETTER THAN ATMOSPHERE BOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIS
And turn it into more of SX os is better than atmosphere because xxx reason
And by showing counter points, hopefully we will never have to argue the same crap over and over with multiple different people.

"Why do you care about them stealing code? It's open sourced it doesn't matter"
Counter point: atmosphere and a lot of these open sourced projects follow GPL2.0 which is in a way, a license. One of the rules of GPL is that you must credit the creator. TX didn't do that.
"Well Team Xecutor was first to release and first complete cfw, so atmosphere babies lose. Tx is superior in every way."
I've heard a lot these responses. Let me break it down.
SX os has one advantage over every other cfw, a small advantage I might add. (maybe it's a big advantage to some of you)
And that's xci loading. To get xci loading to work, they already needed to have signpatches working.
Now let's break down the first bit. And this is fact and well known at this point. But Sx os has stolen code from atmosphere. Which in turn, breaks the idea SX OS is complete.
To briefly explain, because atmosphere is incomplete, and SX OS is based on atmosphere, it is therefore incomplete, being it's base, it's infrastructure is from a project that is still in beta.
Also let's talk about "releases."
I'm getting really tired of this. Release does not mean complete. It just means it's own in some form. So no, SX OS isn't "complete" however completeness can be subjective. Just know there is evidence that leans towards it being incomplete. Which kind of ruins the idea that SX OS is THE COMPLETE CFW.
And finally the fact that SX OS came out first. Which is true, except, a release is just everything packed into a nice bow tie. So really you could argue that atmosphere was out, first or (put any cfw here)
"You pirate games but when you see someone steal someones work, that crosses the line? Hypocrite much"
Now this is more of a more personal moral question. However I can see a lot of people having the same moral feeling about this.
To explain, I personally try to avoid piracy. (all though still do sometimes)
However, what makes the difference. Is the fact I acknowledge that it's not my work, and the person proving the Backup knows it's not their own work either. But what cannot be stood for is when that person providing the backup claims it's their own work. That they made that game. I think that's where many of us draw the line.
"SX OS is worth every dollar. And is far easier than the other cfws"
This is argument is painfully flawed. First of, worth is subjective. However something does has less value when it is able be obtained free. And even more less value when it is easily usable. Which leads to my next point, Setting up sx os, and atmosphere, hekate, (put cfw here)

None of them are all that different. Infact, I would say they are as easy to set up as SX OS.
SX OS requires you (non pro version, no dongle. BASE ONLY.) to put a switch into rcm mode. And use a payload and it's launcher to inject said payload. And have some files on the sd card.
All the community driven cfw's are the same and follow nearly identical procedures. Drag and drop files to micro sd card. Have a switch in rcm mode. And use Tegrarcmsmashgui (Gui is user friendly.)

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
First point is easily countered with the network installer.
Second point, we don't know enough about the switch still. XCI's could be just as dangerous as NSPs. Especially since XCI's have a cert. A cert is essentially a ticket to go online, a ticket unique to that game cart. If Nintendo, (perhaps in 6.0 update) began checking carts while being online, (switch being online, not joining a game online) and saw multiple certs being used at the same time. They would likely ban you. Safest option for both is to not go online. And with what I have seen. Often or not the digital format wins, given 3ds and wiiu scenes.
I'll be making a switch atmosphere/community counter points soon as well. But here is the SX OS edition.

Play nice, and if you got a opinion, state your reasoning behind it. And I mean thoughtful reasoning. Don't go attacking the person directly, attack the opinion, not them.

Enough of your talk. Go away - Atmosphere peasant.

 

[Arkangelshadow]

I like SX Os because it is noob friendly, even in the 3ds scene, people can't follow the plailect guide and will pay for someone to "hack" their console.

Install python to get the CDNSP ?
Go to the github page?
Search for "keys"?
reddit, discord?

Why it has to be too complicated. We just want to play "backups".

What is easier than to go to a fancy TX page that guide us to a big download button and tells me what to do step by step.

Then i have the problem on how to get the games, lucky us there is a lot of forums and pages that will give us the games with an easy search and like 10 linkshorteners and i will just favorite the one that will have the nicest interfase no matter how many ads.

Ok now, after too much work, i can copy the file, turn it on and play. Wow it worked, i'm kind of a hacker myself now; i definetly will recommend SX OS to everyone i know.

It may be a bad example but i started like this some years ago when i found out you can play games for free when my parents hadn't the money to buy games.

Sx is for the general public, people that will not spend time reading about the scene or that doesnt care where the tools came from, people that will never read the gbatemp forums.

I can now just buy the SX option for all the family, and stop worryng that if something goes wrong they will not know what to do.
A friend will go with SX just for the convenience so we can play toguether, even if i told him we have free options, he won't care and doesn't want to go to the hassle of "learning".

Maybe if the free options join their efforts with the general public in mind there will be no need for SX.

If the people that "pirate" things are a small percentage, the ones with the knowledge to use the free options are an even smaller number.

 

[Deleted User]

https://gbatemp.net/threads/switch-community-cfw-counter-points.517041/ everyone please read this. If you thought I was just going to bash on sx os. Your sorely mistakened.

 

[Kubas_inko]

I like SX Os because it is noob friendly, even in the 3ds scene, people can't follow the plailect guide and will pay for someone to "hack" their console.

Install python to get the CDNSP ?
Go to the github page?
Search for "keys"?
reddit, discord?

Why it has to be too complicated. We just want to play "backups".

What is easier than to go to a fancy TX page that guide us to a big download button and tells me what to do step by step.

Then i have the problem on how to get the games, lucky us there is a lot of forums and pages that will give us the games with an easy search and like 10 linkshorteners and i will just favorite the one that will have the nicest interfase no matter how many ads.

Ok now, after too much work, i can copy the file, turn it on and play. Wow it worked, i'm kind of a hacker myself now; i definetly will recommend SX OS to everyone i know.

It may be a bad example but i started like this some years ago when i found out you can play games for free when my parents hadn't the money to buy games.

Sx is for the general public, people that will not spend time reading about the scene or that doesnt care where the tools came from, people that will never read the gbatemp forums.

I can now just buy the SX option for all the family, and stop worryng that if something goes wrong they will not know what to do.
A friend will go with SX just for the convenience so we can play toguether, even if i told him we have free options, he won't care and doesn't want to go to the hassle of "learning".

Maybe if the free options join their efforts with the general public in mind there will be no need for SX.

If the people that "pirate" things are a small percentage, the ones with the knowledge to use the free options are an even smaller number.

Same way of installing any other CFW as with SX OS. Download, put on SD, run. Plailect guide is super outdated now.

And how do you get games on SX OS? The same way as on any other CFW (you know, you can download NSPs as well )

99% of people who bought SX OS won't just simply play "backups" but "free games".

Installation is simple on any CFW, just because you don't know how easy it is does not make it harder to install at all.

That's the point of free options. Anyone can make them independently.

The only thing SX OS has, is the UI, which I personally don't use at all as I use devmenu for NSP installation.

 

[Deleted User]

Same way of installing any other CFW as with SX OS. Download, put on SD, run. Plailect guide is super outdated now.
And how do you get games on SX OS? The same way as on any other CFW (you know, you can download NSPs as well )
99% of people who bought SX OS won't just simply play "backups" but "free games".
Installation is simple on any CFW, just because you don't know how easy it is does not make it harder to install at all.
That's the point of free options.

Playing devils advocate.
Maybe it takes more time to find the files. And that time is more valuable.

 

[Ericthegreat]

The goal of this post is to stop responses that are flawed. So everyone can get past these flame wars. My goal is not to say what is the superior cfw. Custom firmware elitism is retarded. And every opinion is open to criticism. And I'm going to call it out. But there is a lot of TX elitists out there within this comminuty. I wish to bring some actual reasoning. And actual discussion, instead of SX OS IS BETTER THAN ATMOSPHERE BOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIS
And turn it into more of SX os is better than atmosphere because xxx reason
And by showing counter points, hopefully we will never have to argue the same crap over and over with multiple different people.

"Why do you care about them stealing code? It's open sourced it doesn't matter"
Counter point: atmosphere and a lot of these open sourced projects follow GPL2.0 which is in a way, a license. One of the rules of GPL is that you must credit the creator. TX didn't do that.
"Well Team Xecutor was first to release and first complete cfw, so atmosphere babies lose. Tx is superior in every way."
I've heard a lot these responses. Let me break it down.
SX os has one advantage over every other cfw, a small advantage I might add. (maybe it's a big advantage to some of you)
And that's xci loading. To get xci loading to work, they already needed to have signpatches working.
Now let's break down the first bit. And this is fact and well known at this point. But Sx os has stolen code from atmosphere. Which in turn, breaks the idea SX OS is complete.
To briefly explain, because atmosphere is incomplete, and SX OS is based on atmosphere, it is therefore incomplete, being it's base, it's infrastructure is from a project that is still in beta.
Also let's talk about "releases."
I'm getting really tired of this. Release does not mean complete. It just means it's own in some form. So no, SX OS isn't "complete" however completeness can be subjective. Just know there is evidence that leans towards it being incomplete. Which kind of ruins the idea that SX OS is THE COMPLETE CFW.
And finally the fact that SX OS came out first. Which is true, except, a release is just everything packed into a nice bow tie. So really you could argue that atmosphere was out, first or (put any cfw here)
"You pirate games but when you see someone steal someones work, that crosses the line? Hypocrite much"
Now this is more of a more personal moral question. However I can see a lot of people having the same moral feeling about this.
To explain, I personally try to avoid piracy. (all though still do sometimes)
However, what makes the difference. Is the fact I acknowledge that it's not my work, and the person proving the Backup knows it's not their own work either. But what cannot be stood for is when that person providing the backup claims it's their own work. That they made that game. I think that's where many of us draw the line.
"SX OS is worth every dollar. And is far easier than the other cfws"
This is argument is painfully flawed. First of, worth is subjective. However something does has less value when it is able be obtained free. And even more less value when it is easily usable. Which leads to my next point, Setting up sx os, and atmosphere, hekate, (put cfw here)

None of them are all that different. Infact, I would say they are as easy to set up as SX OS.
SX OS requires you (non pro version, no dongle. BASE ONLY.) to put a switch into rcm mode. And use a payload and it's launcher to inject said payload. And have some files on the sd card.
All the community driven cfw's are the same and follow nearly identical procedures. Drag and drop files to micro sd card. Have a switch in rcm mode. And use Tegrarcmsmashgui (Gui is user friendly.)

"NSPs suck, they take extra double the amount of storage in my sd card. When using xci's are just far superior because it takes less storage and is safer than NSP. TX wins baby"
First point is easily countered with the network installer.
Second point, we don't know enough about the switch still. XCI's could be just as dangerous as NSPs. Especially since XCI's have a cert. A cert is essentially a ticket to go online, a ticket unique to that game cart. If Nintendo, (perhaps in 6.0 update) began checking carts while being online, (switch being online, not joining a game online) and saw multiple certs being used at the same time. They would likely ban you. Safest option for both is to not go online. And with what I have seen. Often or not the digital format wins, given 3ds and wiiu scenes.
I'll be making a switch atmosphere/community counter points soon as well. But here is the SX OS edition.

Play nice, and if you got a opinion, state your reasoning behind it. And I mean thoughtful reasoning. Don't go attacking the person directly, attack the opinion, not them.
Follow up thread. https://gbatemp.net/threads/switch-community-cfw-counter-points.517041/

ReiNX is better because sexy animoo girls.

 

[Deleted User]

ReiNX is better because sexy animoo girls.

But i don't like animoo girls. (It's a valid opinion.)
Joking btw. But it can be a counter point.