Hardware (Theory) 3ds dual-nand hardmod

[andre104623]

OK so I been racking my brain for a few months now about a idea I had. 3ds QSB nand mod and dual-nand now I do have experience with building PCB's and doing something like 3ds QSB nand mod probably wouldn't be that hard and could get rid of that god forsaken wireporn. But the problem is interest and not R&D. People might say that's overkill for just 4 wires but this could offer more then easy install.

Taking control of all the dat lines will offer really fast nand flashing. This might not seem like a big deal but n3ds users have 1.2 and 1.8 GB nands. On board regulator to convert 5.0v to 3.3v so we can have a real USB connection.

Now this is all up in head and might never happen but in turn I was also thinking about a dual nand setup. Being able to push a switch on the 3ds to have 4.5 on one nand then push the switch again to have 9.6+ it would be the best of both worlds. Even better buy a new 3ds on 9.4+ then install the PCB and setup the other nand for a hackable firmware.

For the duel nand other things need to be taken into consideration like how the hell to tell the 3ds to redirect between nands. Dumping perconsole key so we could decrypt the nand (I think). Also there are a lot of different hardware revisions.

Really I'm not sure about the duel-nand setup I would need more info and probably other people to help with a project like that. But ideas lead to progress so let me hear your thoughts

 

[DinohScene]

If you'll be able to pull it off, I'm interested in having a Dual NAND mod on me original 3DS.

 

[andre104623]

I don't know about the dual-nand that really is a theory. A 3ds QSB nand mod seems more probable at this point and time and everyone with basic soldering skills could pull it off. With a flexible PCB design would mean not having to cut the case for a connector

 

[Avalynn]

OK so I been racking my brain for a few months now about a idea I had. 3ds QSB nand mod and dual-nand now I do have experience with building PCB's and doing something like 3ds QSB nand mod probably wouldn't be that hard and could get rid of that god forsaken wireporn. But the problem is interest and not R&D. People might say that's overkill for just 4 wires but this could offer more then easy install.

Taking control of all the dat lines will offer really fast nand flashing. This might not seem like a big deal but n3ds users have 1.2 and 1.8 GB nands. On board regulator to convert 5.0v to 3.3v so we can have a real USB connection.

Now this is all up in head and might never happen but in turn I was also thinking about a dual nand setup. Being able to push a switch on the 3ds to have 4.5 on one nand then push the switch again to have 9.6+ it would be the best of both worlds. Even better buy a new 3ds on 9.4+ then install the PCB and setup the other nand for a hackable firmware.

For the duel nand other things need to be taken into consideration like how the hell to tell the 3ds to redirect between nands. Dumping perconsole key so we could decrypt the nand (I think). Also there are a lot of different hardware revisions.

Really I'm not sure about the duel-nand setup I would need more info and probably other people to help with a project like that. But ideas lead to progress so let me hear your thoughts

Sounds interestingly enough, I agree the wires can be messy but they serve their purpose. I am going to assume QSB? means something along the likes of Quick Solder board?? I honestly don't know sorry

But I'm not sure as the need for a 3.3V to 5V conversion directly? as you would still need a Read/Writer controller on board and that would have the USB to controller on it, so the logic level conversion would happen there.The board would have to be very flat a couple mils in width as you don't want to be adding to much pressure to the back of the bottom LCD. I am curious as how it would externally connect. I've been playing around with using other ports on the N3DS natively, such as the audio jack but that was a no go, it has 4 connections but of course how it's hooked up to the audio controller makes it such that the signals fluctuate too much and causes boot errors.

The difference between 1 Dat line and 4 is about the time it takes to get up and get a drink, it's about 4 time faster with 1 DAT line it roughly takes around 5 or 6 mins while 4 DAT lines averages about a 1 min and a half. If you are constantly reading and writing to your eMMC then all DAT lines seems like a good idea, but I think for most 1 is fine.

A dual eMMC setup would be interesting indeed but that would require a method to control which eMMC, I'd think switching the CMD line should be enough.

 

[cearp]

just solder an undiluted platinum to the motherboard...?

 

[Avalynn]

just solder an undiluted platinum to the motherboard...?

Lol I had to look up what that was >.> and jeeeeez that reminds me of PS2 modchips back in the day. We went from only needing to soldering 4 wires to like 20 something for the 3DS here, but I will admit reading about the features seemed neat though, I think that's a little over kill

P.S. I hope one of these aren't made for the 3DS.

 

[NicEXE]

If you could desolder the nand chip it would be so easy... Just have 2 nand chips and switch the power pins between them.
Sadly this is nearly impossible. You can't just solder/desolder the nand without special equipment (that is microwave soldering/reflowing machines)

(I guess you could improperly do this with a heat gun and some strong chemicals but the risk of failure is quite high)

 

[Avalynn]

If you could desolder the nand chip it would be so easy... Just have 2 nand chips and switch the power pins between them.
Sadly this is nearly impossible. You can't just solder/desolder the nand without special equipment (that is microwave soldering/reflowing machines)

(I guess you could improperly do this with a heat gun and some strong chemicals but the risk of failure is quite high)

If you didn't want to remove the old eMMC then you will have to cut some, or maybe even only one, of the traces and switch the signals as needed.

 

[duke_srg]

If you didn't want to remove the old eMMC then you will have to cut some, or maybe even only one, of the traces and switch the signals as needed.

This may work if eMMC is the only interface of the NAND chip. Did not check the datasheet, but 3DS SoC may be connected to NAND with the different interface.

 

[Avalynn]

This may work if eMMC is the only interface of the NAND chip. Did not check the datasheet, but 3DS SoC may be connected to NAND with the different interface.

I'm a little confused as to this " if eMMC is the only interface of the NAND chip" I thought the NAND was packaged in the eMMC as it's a type of managed NAND, less hassle on the embedded engineers to have to manage the NAND and a simpler interface. I don't think the NAND as any pinouts directly and is tied internally in the chip to the controller.

 

[duke_srg]

I'm a little confused as to this " if eMMC is the only interface of the NAND chip" I thought the NAND was packaged in the eMMC as it's a type of managed NAND, less hassle on the embedded engineers to have to manage the NAND and a simpler interface. I don't think the NAND as any pinouts directly and is tied internally in the chip to the controller.

Ok, checked datasheet for the similar Toshiba model - eMMC with 1/4/8 bit wide modes and no other interfaces. Anyway cutting all Vss lines is needed to disable the chip

 

[andre104623]

Sounds interestingly enough, I agree the wires can be messy but they serve their purpose. I am going to assume QSB? means something along the likes of Quick Solder board?? I honestly don't know sorry

But I'm not sure as the need for a 3.3V to 5V conversion directly? as you would still need a Read/Writer controller on board and that would have the USB to controller on it, so the logic level conversion would happen there.The board would have to be very flat a couple mils in width as you don't want to be adding to much pressure to the back of the bottom LCD. I am curious as how it would externally connect. I've been playing around with using other ports on the N3DS natively, such as the audio jack but that was a no go, it has 4 connections but of course how it's hooked up to the audio controller makes it such that the signals fluctuate too much and causes boot errors.

The difference between 1 Dat line and 4 is about the time it takes to get up and get a drink, it's about 4 time faster with 1 DAT line it roughly takes around 5 or 6 mins while 4 DAT lines averages about a 1 min and a half. If you are constantly reading and writing to your eMMC then all DAT lines seems like a good idea, but I think for most 1 is fine.

A dual eMMC setup would be interesting indeed but that would require a method to control which eMMC, I'd think switching the CMD line should be enough.

Yes a quick solder board but not something like a RGH Xbox QSB thats to big to be in the 3ds. I was thinking a flexible PCB, flat and very small. So when installed just a little of the PCB will be sticking out of the case so a connector can be attached on the outside of the case. This is all up in my head and is hard to explain but maybe when I get some time I could send out for a prototype so people can get a idea.

 

[Avalynn]

Yes a quick solder board but not something like a RGH Xbox QSB thats to big to be in the 3ds. I was thinking a flexible PCB, flat and very small. So when installed just a little of the PCB will be sticking out of the case so a connector can be attached on the outside of the case. This is all up in my head and is hard to explain but maybe when I get some time I could send out for a prototype so people can get a idea.

I think I understand that you want to use a FPC, a flex board a couple mils in width to attach to the needed points but what sort of circuity if any is going to be to used with it? I am curious and sometimes bouncing ideas back and forward can help Is this end connector part going to be under the battery I'd assume so no extra external holes are needed?

 

[andre104623]

A nand mod QSB would most definitely will work but other then my own personal use I don't see many people buying it. Even if it was 15-20 dollars you would still have to open your console to install it but I'm going to make a prototype and send out to the fab and see how to turns out.

 

[gudenau]

Yes a quick solder board but not something like a RGH Xbox QSB thats to big to be in the 3ds. I was thinking a flexible PCB, flat and very small. So when installed just a little of the PCB will be sticking out of the case so a connector can be attached on the outside of the case. This is all up in my head and is hard to explain but maybe when I get some time I could send out for a prototype so people can get a idea.

I get it! Like the ribbon cables.

 

[Avalynn]

I glad I sparked a little discussion about this. The dual-nand is far fetched and I have no info to back it up. A nand mod QSB would most definitely will work but other then my own personal use I don't see many people buying it. Even if it was 15-20 dollars you would still have to open your console to install it but I'm going to make a prototype and send out to the fab and see how to turns out.

I really don't think it's as far fetched as you might think honestly, but it won't be easy to install, though I might look into it myself If I can get a couple eMMC that aren't BGA.

 

[andre104623]

I think I understand that you want to use a FPC, a flex board a couple mils in width to attach to the needed points but what sort of circuity if any is going to be to used with it? I am curious and sometimes bouncing ideas back and forward can help Is this end connector part going to be under the battery I'd assume so no extra external holes are needed?

Yeah something like that. A little FFC type cable sticking out so you could connect a SD card maybe under the battery or on top of the console next to the wrist strap on the n3ds.

 

[andre104623]

Yeah something like that. A little FFC type cable sticking out so you could connect a SD card maybe under the battery or on top of the console next to the wrist strap on the n3ds.

But the connection for the SD card would be part of the PCB or FPC so it could just be one piece design

 

[hundshamer]

Ok, checked datasheet for the similar Toshiba model - eMMC with 1/4/8 bit wide modes and no other interfaces. Anyway cutting all Vss lines is needed to disable the chip

I tried a similar setup, but could not find all the Vss leads for the NAND. I gave up figuring it is an 8 layer board and a magnifying glass would help that.

gamesquest1 brought an idea to me about swappable NANDs by writing NAND backups to micro SD cards and wiring up a micro SD slot. Since GQ didn't have a test board I tried with a dead board from someone I knew whom had a USB NAND mod and wanted to see what would happen if he connected to PC with USB cable instead of adapter. The test failed. I figured maybe it was sending signals to other dat lines, CLK, and CMD. I then removed the chip all together (oh, the epoxy). Still no go. OK maybe USB fried more than NAND? I then tried to cut a couple traces to NAND that looked like they powered it. Nope it still booted. That's when I figured I didn't have the means to find the traces on an 8 layer board.

Also they do have some 3DS cap cards that use ribbon cable soldered directly to the board like some PS3 devices.

 

[andre104623]

something like this but not as complicated