Hacking Gateway support for Firmware 9.0 – 9.2 Coming

[davhuit]

They bricked clones on purpose, that's a different thing to me (and yeah, few geniune users got affected, but they didn't bricked every user like the message I quote seems to mean, they are not enough dumb to lose their customers I think)

Not to mention the guy you quoted got a replacement of his 3DS by the gateway team, as wrote here : https://gbatemp.net/threads/gw3ds.372986/ so it's not that abd

Gateway is their product and iit's use is not legal in lots of countries, so they can do barely what they want with it. I wouldn't complain if my second 3DS is bricked one day, that's the risk you have to take when you use such an illegal device.

And it's the same for CFW or such things, no one can complain to be bricked by those things when they shouldn't use it (not supported by Nintendo)

As I answered to the guy I quoted the posted from, if he don't want to take any risks, he should just not use such devices.

But I don't think the code is still here anyway, because if yes, new people who be complaining once in a while once bricked (probably why gateway require to have the red card in it to use emunand, though it got removed in the last version).

 

[Foxi4]

They bricked clones on purpose, that's a different thing to me

They damaged systems of people who dared to buy someone else's flashcart - what a class act. That's like Volkswagen going out on a crusade burning people's Mercedes cars because "f*ck you, you should've bought a Volkswagen". Cut the apologist shtick, it's never going to be an "okay" thing to do. At best, they thought this won't even go through testing and that it'll only harm the cloners themselves, at worst they aimed specifically at the users and thought "Ha! Now people will think that 3DSLink/Orange/MT-Card/R4i Gold 3DS Deluxe are crap and brick systems!" because they thought they're so clever and nobody will ever find out.

 

[Armadillo]

I'd argue r4i etc bricked their users system. They released their "original work", they are responsible for making sure it is safe.

 

[davhuit]

What did you except from companies selling illegal devices ? A sense of morality ?

The example with the cars is not a good one in my opinion because it's legal to buy those two cards, so this situation couldn't happen or you could fill a suit.

Would you fill a suit because a drug dealer sold you something that made you sick? (I think you can but then, it won't be arrested because of the "bad quality" of his products, he'll just because he's doing an illegal thing and would be the same even if his products were "good").

And I don't think I ever said it was a nice move from them, just that people who don't want any risk shouldn't deal with such devices. It's not the first illegal device that brick systems and won't be the last one.

I don't forgive them, I don't bash them. I know there was such a risk when I bought it (read some news on the brick before I bought it).

But as I answered before to the first message I quoted, if he's not ready to take the risk, yeah, he better not buy one, but he might needed to know that 99.9% of users never got any problems (the majority of people who updated their firmware by mistake come from an mistake of them, often need reading enough tutorial and upgrading without setuping an emunand).

 

[Foxi4]

I'd argue r4i etc bricked their users system. They released their "original work", they are responsible for making sure it is safe.

Sure. I mean, if a soldier steps on a mine, it's totally the soldier's fault - whoever laid down the minefield is exempted from any responsibility.

What did you except from companies selling illegal devices ?

That's my point - I didn't expect anything of them, that's why I don't have a Gateway altar like many people do.

 

[the_randomizer]

They damaged systems of people who dared to buy someone else's flashcart - what a class act. That's like Volkswagen going out on a crusade burning people's Mercedes cars because "f*ck you, you should've bought a Volkswagen". Cut the apologist shtick, it's never going to be an "okay" thing to do. At best, they thought this won't even go through testing and that it'll only harm the cloners themselves, at worst they aimed specifically at the users and thought "Ha! Now people will think that 3DSLink/Orange/MT-Card/R4i Gold 3DS Deluxe are crap and brick systems!" because they thought they're so clever and nobody will ever find out.

Yeah, I'm sure their *ahem* most helpful anti-competitive tactics will most assuredly attract more customers, right??

Sure. I mean, if a soldier steps on a mine, it's totally the soldier's fault - whoever laid down the minefield is exempted from any responsibility.
That's my point - I didn't expect anything of them, that's why I don't have a Gateway altar like many people do.

Well of course not, they're exempt, remember? Gateway alter, heh, I'll need to remember that one. I love how people are flooding in to, uh, well....I'll take my leave now, this material on this thread is too rich.

 

[Armadillo]

Sure. I mean, if a soldier steps on a mine, it's totally the soldier's fault - whoever laid down the minefield is exempted from any responsibility.

If the soldier was trying to steal the mine, then yeah, it's his fault. Leave the mine alone.

 

[Foxi4]

If the soldier was trying to steal the mine, then yeah, it's his fault. Leave the mine alone.

Fair enough, but don't design the mine to stick to the soldier's shoe and explode the moment he comes back home just to blow up some innocents along the way. The brick code wasn't working instantaneously the moment you modify the launcher - it was specifically designed with a delay in mind.

 

[davhuit]

Which is pretty smart. Without this delay, the clones would have spotted it and so their protection would have been useless

I agree with you anyway, except for your examples, which I think aren't the bests (you compare legal things with illegal things, so that's rather weird).

It's like when you buy a fake smartphone charger (knowing it's a fake one with the price) and then it explode to your face. You can't really complain as you know you bought a counterfeit product, which is what the gateway is, a counterfeit version of a 3DS game card.

And that's why (not only for that reason, though), that Nintendo say to you to not use such devices

 

[Foxi4]

Which is pretty smart. Without this delay, the clones would have spotted it and so their protection would have been useless

No, davhuit - the launcher would've been useless. There's so much obfuscation involved in this thing that it would've taken months for them to remove the brick code. In fact, they still haven't removed the brick code from it.

 

[davhuit]

In terms of "advertising", it's better for Gateway to have the clones work then brick the 3DS, which might give a little bad publicity to Gateway (seeing lots of people talking about the gateway and new updates here, I don't think it's affected them a lot, especially when Gateway replaced some 3DS), but a more bad one to the cloners (I don't think lots of people who would to buy a clone after that brick story).

If some peoples are fearing to buy a Gateway, I suppose they would still be more affraid with the idea of buying a clone that can easily trigger a brick.

 

[Armadillo]

Yeah, I'm sure their *ahem* most helpful anti-competitive tactics will most assuredly attract more customers, right??

Doesn't make a difference. Gateway don't need to be squeaky clean and attract customers.

End of the day, you want the features Gateway offer, you go Gateway or have nothing. Even the free CFW is extremely limited compared to Gateway.

Gateway pretty much have a free pass to do whatever they like.

Fair enough, but don't design the mine to stick to the soldier's shoe and explode the moment he comes back home just to blow up some innocents along the way. The brick code wasn't working instantaneously the moment you modify the launcher - it was specifically designed with a delay in mind.

True, they could have just had it trigger straight away, but having it on delay, sets confusion. What caused it etc, rather than, soon as we changed X, it bricked.

And well, bricking on modification. Good enough for Nintendo, Good enough for Gateway.

 

[lcleong]

alright who the idiot said is fake in this https://gbatemp.net/threads/reply-from-gateway-3ds-about-support-3ds-v9-2-0-20.374127

 

[Chiejina]

Fair enough, but don't design the mine to stick to the soldier's shoe and explode the moment he comes back home just to blow up some innocents along the way. The brick code wasn't working instantaneously the moment you modify the launcher - it was specifically designed with a delay in mind.

It was their product and it was a form of DRM so people cant just copy it and profit of it.
It's a form of protection, and its the clones fault for copying the product to make quick cash of something that isn't their work. Thereby putting their customers at risk.

What gateway may have failed at was getting the brick code wrong and bricking their own legit carts. That's what they are guilty of. If I made a product, I would put some protection on it so my hard work wouldn't be able to be copied and profited off.

(I know i'm talking about a flashcard here that makes it possible to play copies of games.)

 

[davhuit]

alright who the idiot said is fake in this https://gbatemp.net/threads/reply-from-gateway-3ds-about-support-3ds-v9-2-0-20.374127

Most people assumed it was a fake, they never said they were sure it was one and that it was better to wait official confirmation.

And now that the Gateway team said you should stay in 4.5 if you using it, we can now assume it's a Sky3ds-like exploit, which might be very doable. At first, the message he copy pasted implied it would have all the actuals features (emunand, region-free games, multirom launcher, cia installation) on 9.x which seems rather not possible.

If it was offering the same possibilities, there would be not interest for people to keep using a 4.5 firmware when 9.x would offer the same possibilities.

 

[Foxi4]

It was their product and it was a form of DRM so people cant just copy it and profit of it.
It's a form of protection, and its the clones fault for copying the product to make quick cash of something that isn't their work. Thereby putting their customers at risk.

What gateway may have failed at was getting the brick code wrong and bricking their own legit carts. That's what they are guilty of. If I made a product, I would put some protection on it so my hard work wouldn't be able to be copied and profited off.

(I know i'm talking about a flashcard here that makes it possible to play copies of games.)

DRM I understand, sure - protect your code. Obfuscate, implement some hardware detection, block stuff, whatever. DRM that downright destroys systems? No, that's just too far.

 

[KennyMckormick]

They damaged systems of people who dared to buy someone else's flashcart - what a class act. That's like Volkswagen going out on a crusade burning people's Mercedes cars because "f*ck you, you should've bought a Volkswagen". Cut the apologist shtick, it's never going to be an "okay" thing to do. At best, they thought this won't even go through testing and that it'll only harm the cloners themselves, at worst they aimed specifically at the users and thought "Ha! Now people will think that 3DSLink/Orange/MT-Card/R4i Gold 3DS Deluxe are crap and brick systems!" because they thought they're so clever and nobody will ever find out.

That's completely inaccurate.

It's more like if Volkswagen added self destruct in their chassis and then Mercedes secretly used Volk's chassis in their cars causing them to explode.

 

[MarkDarkness]

That's like Volkswagen going out on a crusade burning people's Mercedes cars because "f*ck you, you should've bought a Volkswagen".

Man, I dunno if your analogies sound better in polszczyzna, but they are sort of weird in English. It's not like Mercedes uses Volkswagen's parts or anything, right? I get what you've been trying to defend these past few days, but the analogies keep on befuddling me.

 

[Foxi4]

That's completely inaccurate.

It's more like if Volkswagen added self destruct in their chassis and then Mercedes secretly used Volk's chassis in their cars causing them to explode.

Aaaaand that's still not one bit better.

Man, I dunno if your analogies sound better in polszczyzna, but they are sort of weird in English. It's not like Mercedes uses Volkswagen's parts or anything, right? I get what you've been trying to defend these past few days, but the analogies keep on befuddling me.

They "sound" just fine in English (I would know, English is sort of my profession), they might not be 100% accurate though.

If you want a more accurate analogy, I'd have to use Benz - after all, he did invent the flat internal combustion engine. Now, let's say that Benz designed it in such a way that it would explode if it was installed in a non-Benz car... except not immediately, rather in a few decades. You would have a whole lot of exploding cars right now, and frankly, that would be Benz' fault.

 

[Ericss]

imitation is the best form of saying "we weren't good enough"

Ironic that Sky3DS managed to function on 4.5+ firmwares and now GateWay suddenly claims they have reached a "milestone"

inb4stolencode

Look like there is certainly no "honor among thieves" in the DS piracy market. That's for sure.

Unless the GW team found a way of upgrading their cart's hardware via software updates, they haven't copied squat from the Sky3DS.