Hacking How can anyone be okay with Gateway's behavior?

[zeello]

Hypothetically speaking... what if they made a mistake, or there was a glitch, and as a result your system had become bricked unintentionally.

 

[Senbei Norimaki]

Its Gateway's software they can do what they want with it. They are not a big rich corporation that piracy doesn't hurt.

 

[ELok]

Nobody is going to support a product that has a track record of bricking consoles. R4i will probably start distributing flash carts under a different name for that exact reason.

I'll pull out the dictionary for you. It's the first thing that comes up on Google, as a matter of fact. Simple.
could pull off
neg·li·gence
1. failure to take proper care in doing something.
Law
- failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.

R4i distributed software to their customers, that they claimed to be their own let's not forget, and failed to understand the extent of what that software could or would accomplish when run. If they were a legitimate business, they would easily be found guilty of criminal negligence in a court of law. Then, when they decided to claim that the software was actually created by someone else, they would be found guilty of copyright infringement, or at the very least, plagiarism, and it would make no difference in that they would still be forced to pay a settlement to reimburse their customers for damages caused.

Last time I'm answering you, I'm going to bed after this.

First my thank for fetching the definition but it was mostly an expression, I really just didn't want to explain how þere's no negligence (I got no dictionary here).

But since you took the trouble, here we go. You are exactly right about the definition and the fact that R4i claimed their firmware to be their work change nothing. There was no lack of care or any negligence in their work, it was a trap impossible to detect. Or if you prefer, there's nothing R4i could have done more to avoid this or expected it.

Second, no it'll not affect their sale because of two simple fact :

- Part of their potential customer have no idea about what is happening so they'll buy their product simply because it's 2x cheaper
- Now that R4i know about the dark side of GW, you can be sure it won't happen again. Trust me, testing 3DS to encounter such kill-code is child play compared to what they have done before. And there's not really any more trick of the sort that GW could pull off.

 

[Xzi]

Last time I'm answering you, I'm going to bed after this.

First my thank for fetching the definition but it was mostly an expression, I really just didn't want to explain how þere's no negligence (I got no dictionary here).

But since you took the trouble, here we go. You are exactly right about the definition and the fact that R4i claimed their firmware to be their work change nothing. There was no lack of care or any negligence in their work, it was a trap impossible to detect. Or if you prefer, there's nothing R4i could have done more to avoid this or expected it.

Second, no it'll not affect their sale because of two simple fact :

- Part of their potential customer have no idea about what is happening so they'll buy their product simply because it's 2x cheaper
- Now that R4i know about the dark side of GW, you can be sure it won't happen again. Trust me, testing 3DS to encounter such kill-code is child play compared to what they have done before. And there's not really any more trick of the sort that GW could pull off.

Man, this is taking fanboyism to the extreme. R4i are not skilled. We already knew this because they were copying someone else's work instead of doing their own. To compound this, they couldn't find the brick code which several individual users found with very little trouble. Obviously not impossible or even all that hard to find. They're a team of people that couldn't do the same? Pathetic.

And yeah, it will kill their sales. We've already seen them work under names other than R4 previously. That's their obvious move here. I'd be very surprised to see any new firmware released for the R4i 3DS flash cart.

 

[ELok]

So much stupid in this post. I can't even.

If you are a cloner, and you've sold a product to customers, then release software for that product, and the software was stolen and they didn't even understand what it does but still released it to their customers, then they are the true scum. If R4 and the other cloners were making their own shit this wouldn't have ever happened would it?

Well Crass, thank you for indirectly calling me stupid. I would like to take the time to defend myself but the bed is calling me and you kinda proved your superiority in the logic of your post.

Still, I invite you to read this little text I wrote earlier that clearly show my opinion on the subject.

Ok, I'll take the shot.

As a future customer that didn't buy any flash card yet, I have to say that I'm not okay with R4i's behavior.

However, this "won't" affect my decision on which card I'll buy. It's a choice, my choice. As I kept "Thriller" in my mp3 after all the bad press around M.J. at the time. I'll buy the best product "for the buck". And before this little controversy, the best option certainly wasn't Gateway.

Don't point the finger at me yet, all the successful electronic company have an history of stolen intellectual property and it's not the responsibility of the customer to make a difference. It's the responsibility of the government, the law.

On the other hand, now we have a company (Gateway) that seems to have purposely sabotaged their work. While we could argue about the right or wrong of those action, one thing is certain, the one that pay the price are those customer. And I got a huge problem about this.

And hear me out, I wouldn't mind to bad if the sabotage simply make the firmware unusable. But we're talking about "destruction of property" of customer that, alway in my opinion, have done nothing wrong except paying the best product on the market.

Of course, as far as I know there's no proof yet that Gateway deliberately wanted to brick those 3DS. But if it's the case I'll have a bigger problem again Gateway that attacked customers instead of R4i that attacked Gateway.

Still, in the end I'll still buy the "best for the buck". And gateway will have to drop their price before I decide to buy their product. But It's not for some time, I'll wait that the exploit are more solid.

Elok

 

[ELok]

Man, this is taking fanboyism to the extreme. R4i are not skilled. We already knew this because they were copying someone else's work instead of doing their own. To compound this, they couldn't find the brick code which several individual users found with very little trouble. Obviously not impossible or even all that hard to find. They're a team of people that couldn't do the same? Pathetic.

And yeah, it will kill their sales. We've already seen them work under names other than R4 previously. That's their obvious move here. I'd be very surprised to see any new firmware released for the R4i 3DS flash cart.

Please, stop talking and programming and coding when you clearly know nothing on the subject. Making a clone is far from easy and it can actually be more complicated that creating the actual firmware. To create a flash card from scratch you need an exploit.

 

[Xzi]

Please, stop talking and programming and coding when you clearly know nothing on the subject. Making a clone is far from easy and it can actually be more complicated that creating the actual firmware. To create a flash card from scratch you need an exploit.

Horse shit. If creating original firmware is easier than creating a clone, why are there 4+ clones out there and 1 original? Of course it's easier to remove one check at the beginning of a launcher than it is to create thousands upon thousands of lines of your own code, whether you have to reverse engineer or not. Seems like you're pretending to know something about coding when you're just as clueless as I am.

 

[signz]

Oooh, I love some good drama but this is more like a dramedy.
Fact is, no matter what team makes them, when you are using any piracy device you run the risk of damaging your system. Sure, it sucks for those who got a stylish paperweight now, but they knew the risk. I'm not defending anyone here (funny thing is, I don't even want to pirate 3DS games, even if I could), what GW did is bad, sure, but so is what pirates are doing.

 

[anon123857438]

Please, stop talking and programming and coding when you clearly know nothing on the subject. Making a clone is far from easy and it can actually be more complicated that creating the actual firmware. To create a flash card from scratch you need an exploit.

Honestly it sounds like you have no idea what you're on about, the cloners do not need to find an exploit like you seem to think, they can use the exact same exploit as Gateway, no one has an issue with that, they just need to code the exploit themselves so they have no risk of running Gateways 'malicious' code on the cloned carts claiming it as their own launcher, the entire bricking issue revolves around the cloners having no idea what the code does because they didn't code it themselves, if they implemented the exploits that Gateway are using on their carts, there would be absolutely zero issues of clone carts bricking their users 3DS' console.

Bottom line is, Gateway put this code in to stop the cloners stealing their code, and it worked, right it's awful that users got caught in the crossfire, but everyone is bringing morality into the discussion where it has absolutely no place.

 

[Crass]

Oooh, I love some good drama but this is more like a dramedy.
Fact is, no matter what team makes them, when you are using any piracy device you run the risk of damaging your system. Sure, it sucks for those who got a stylish paperweight now, but they knew the risk. I'm not defending anyone here (funny thing is, I don't even want to pirate 3DS games, even if I could), what GW did is bad, sure, but so is what pirates are doing.

Heya SignZ!

Totally agree with you on this subject. While I am a Gateway customer, I try to view this from an objective point of view. It really is just fun watching people get so fired up over flashcards. Reminds me of back when I first got into the scene, things have been so stagnate these past few years it's nice to have some life again.

 

[mathieulh]

I am going to repeat what I wrote in another thread:

The way I see it, is that Gateway developers wrote the actual code that bricks the consoles, whether it is triggered or not under specific conditions is irrelevant, considering they wrote it, they are either directly or indirectly responsible for damaging those consoles. I do hope they will know better in their future versions than to put code that performs permanent damages on consumers' units. There are plenty of ways to make it a nightmare for clone cards manufacturers to steal their code without damaging countless units and gateway's own reputation along with it.

The fact that rival companies stole Gateway's code does not absolve them of their share of responsibility in this matter.

People should know when they go too far.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Why are people still making countless threads about this ? I would have thought the point was made with the main 24ish pages thread that was closed about 2 days ago.

 

[spinner09]

This is hilarious. Somehow, people are blaming Gateway for competing companies' products that brick people's 3ds consoles.

You're a retard and you haven't been following the thread. Gateway intentionally installed a Trojan to screw over innocent consumers by bricking their consoles. Gateway wrote it, they programmed it, and installed it. Damn right they are 100% to blame. If they were located in the US, they'd be sued into oblivion.

Can you whiners just please suck it up and not scrimp on quality next time?

"Quality"? Fucking LOL, dude. All of these flash carts (whether it's Gateway or clones) are just cheap plastic devices made in China. They are all prone to break. NONE of them have fucking "quality". The only difference is the cloners are less greedy and have a more fair price than fucking 85 bucks (which is absurd).

 

[anon123857438]

You're a retard and you haven't been following the thread. Gateway intentionally installed a Trojan to screw over innocent consumers by bricking their consoles. Gateway wrote it, they programmed it, and installed it. Damn right they are 100% to blame. If they were located in the US, they'd be sued into oblivion.



"Quality"? Fucking LOL, dude. All of these flash carts (whether it's Gateway or clones) are just cheap plastic devices made in China. They are all prone to break. NONE of them have fucking "quality". The only difference is the cloners are less greedy and have a more fair price than fucking 85 bucks (which is absurd).

The only difference is that cloners didn't have to figure out how to get the entire thing running it isn't like developing the firmware was free, people worked hard to get everything functional, if it was as easy as everyone is making it out to be why would the competitors have to steal the code in the first place?. No one would be sued stop lying to yourself, everyone seems to have such a sense of entitlement.
Why should Gateways work be executable on a competitors product? It makes zero sense, everyone is just mad because their DS is on the line. You don't have a gun to your head, people aren't forcing you to run the code on your machine, man up and accept some responsibility. Yeah maybe it is a dick move that Gateway programmed the checks in the first place, but it is what happened and the clone cart buyers are the one that are getting screwed over.

 

[Tokenx]

You're a retard and you haven't been following the thread. Gateway intentionally installed a Trojan to screw over innocent consumers by bricking their consoles. Gateway wrote it, they programmed it, and installed it. Damn right they are 100% to blame. If they were located in the US, they'd be sued into oblivion.

"Quality"? Fucking LOL, dude. All of these flash carts (whether it's Gateway or clones) are just cheap plastic devices made in China. They are all prone to break. NONE of them have fucking "quality". The only difference is the cloners are less greedy and have a more fair price than fucking 85 bucks (which is absurd).

Ahaha, this entire thread is amusing. I'm not going to add another overwinded analogy to the thread, but really you should just realize that Gateway owes you literally nothing.

It's not your fault that you bought a 3ds card that was priced cheaper (albeit cloned). It's entirely on the cloners that they didn't figure it out and released a product that they didn't know would brick devices.

Ultimately, blaming Gateway and flaming Gateway users isn't going to unbrick your 3ds.

 

[spinner09]

The only difference is that cloners didn't have to figure out how to get the entire thing running it isn't like developing the firmware was free, people worked hard to get everything functional, if it was as easy as everyone is making it out to be why would the competitors have to steal the code in the first place?.

If that's the case, every flashcart would cost $85 due to all the work required, but they don't. You can get a DS flashcart for as little as $5 nowadays, and they are many people in China making a big profit doing just that. So, why on earth should a flashcart ever cost $85? It was pure unadulterated greed on Gateway's part. Bravo to the cloners for knocking them down a peg and breaking the monopoly.

No one would be sued stop lying to yourself, everyone seems to have such a sense of entitlement.

If Sony, for example, intentionally made a driver that contained a trojan that damaged certain peoples PCs, they'd be sued into oblivion, even if they weren't the ones who distributed it. And guess what? That already happened, and Sony lost. Google the Rootkit disaster to see what I mean. The same point here. Gateway could be held legally responsible for this debacle if they weren't in China.

Yeah maybe it is a dick move that Gateway programmed the checks in the first place, but it is what happened and the clone cart buyers are the one that are getting screwed over.

It's a mega-dick move, and it damages innocent buyers, most of whom don't even know that 3dslink/r4i are clones. They have no idea that they bought a cloned device, why should they suffer? They didn't do anything wrong. If Gateway wanted to go after someone, go after the cloners themselves, not the people who buy them.

 

[anon123857438]

If that's the case, every flashcart would cost $85 due to all the work required, but they don't. You can get a DS flashcart for as little as $5 nowadays, and they are many people in China making a big profit doing just that. So, why on earth should a flashcart ever cost $85? It was pure unadulterated greed on Gateway's part. Bravo to the cloners for knocking them down a peg and breaking the monopoly.


If Sony, for example, intentionally made a driver that contained a trojan that damaged certain peoples PCs, they'd be sued into oblivion, even if they weren't the ones who distributed it. And guess what? That already happened, and they lost. Google the Rootkit disaster to see what I mean. The same point here. Gateway could be held legally responsible for this debacle if they weren't in China.


It's a mega-dick move, and it damages innocent buyers, most of whom don't even know that 3dslink/r4i are clones. They have no idea that they bought a cloned device, why should they suffer? They didn't do anything wrong. If Gateway wanted to go after someone, go after the cloners themselves, not the people who buy them.

It's like saying, why did the first 4k monitor cost so much money? Because it was the first to ever do that, so they can charge a premium amount of money because they're the only company offering that product, in the world of real legitimate businesses you would patent things that you created, but clearly in a field as shady as the one we're talking about that isn't an option because they can't exactly take r4 and the other cloners to court for stealing their software because their software is illegitimate in the first place.

You don't seem to realise that Sony is an actual company that pays taxes and has laws to abide to. We have no idea who Gateway are, why do they have to follow rules if they're operating in anonymity, when sony pull such a stunt we know who the CEO is and we have evidence that what they have done is illegal and it is easy to make a case against that. We are not in that situation, it amazes me that people can't fathom that and there are suggestions of suing a company.

None of us are innocent, we're all using the card to pirate software that IS copyrighted. Like I said, the sense of entitlement is amazing.

 

[Crass]

If that's the case, every flashcart would cost $85 due to all the work required, but they don't. You can get a DS flashcart for as little as $5 nowadays, and they are many people in China making a big profit doing just that. So, why on earth should a flashcart ever cost $85? It was pure unadulterated greed on Gateway's part. Bravo to the cloners for knocking them down a peg and breaking the monopoly.


If Sony, for example, intentionally made a driver that contained a trojan that damaged certain peoples PCs, they'd be sued into oblivion, even if they weren't the ones who distributed it. And guess what? That already happened, and Sony lost. Google the Rootkit disaster to see what I mean. The same point here. Gateway could be held legally responsible for this debacle if they weren't in China.


It's a mega-dick move, and it damages innocent buyers, most of whom don't even know that 3dslink/r4i are clones. They have no idea that they bought a cloned device, why should they suffer? They didn't do anything wrong. If Gateway wanted to go after someone, go after the cloners themselves, not the people who buy them.

The first DS flashcard I bought cost about 50 bucks and was super limited, you can't really compare new hardware to something like an R4 which has been mass produced like crazy and has been on the market for 7 years. These people are in it to make money, not to provide you with free ROMs at cost for them.

Also can we stop comparing Gateway and the other flashcard manufactures to western companies. The ethics/rules/laws simple don't apply. This is already an unethical business.

And yeah it sucks that the innocent people are caught in the crossfire, but it's a risk you take when doing modding your system. If people are purchasing these devices without understanding the risks, and without doing any research on their product at all, then yeah it sucks for them.

 

[spinner09]

Can any Gateway fanboys please explain this shit: http://gbatemp.net/threads/3ds-ing-bricked-never-even-use-clones.360657

It seems their trojan isn't just bad news for clone users, but also Gateway users themselves! Why on earth would you use a device with known bricking code in it?

 

[Lumstar]

That's the thing. The user has to deliberately go out of their way to locate and use devices without Nintendo approval, after all mainstream retailers don't sell them in countries like USA.

 

[spinner09]

That's the thing. The user has to deliberately go out of their way to locate and use devices without Nintendo approval, after all mainstream retailers don't sell them in countries like USA.

I don't know about the US, but in Asia there are dozens of stores that sell those devices. I've been able to find game stores that sell all three 3ds flashcarts as well (gateway, 3dslonk, and r4i). Inside there are just basic instructions leading to their respective websites for system files and manuals. There are MANY innocent people who purchased these devices from stores here, and then got bricked later on because of Gateway's malicious code.